Tilt and Trim not working. Bottomed out my boat.

[Ruski1107]

I bottomed out my 2007 Sea Ray Sundancer 240 and was able to raise my alpha 3 drive but now it won’t lower. My hydraulic fluid leaked into the bilge. I would hear gurgling coming from the bilge when I would try to raise or lower the drive. The fluid all leaked out eventually into the bilge. The hydraulic fluid hoses go from the pump under my inboard and into a hole in the stern leading out to the drive. I felt the hose and couldn’t feel any punctures. Is my problem a punctured hose or something else? Am I able to replace the hoses without removing my engine? A mechanic told me that I would have to remove my inboard. Someone else said I would need to remove both the inboard and drive. A third said that there should be a way to remove the hoses without taking out the engine and/or drive. A lot of mechanics just want to take my money so I would rather fix this myself if I can. Someone else said that maybe my trim cylinder rams need to be replaced. Any help would be appreciated. Can I do this repair myself?

 

[scoflaw]

Locate the leak first then make a plan of attack

 

[Bt Doctur]

If the bottom strike was severs you cold have ruptured a hose, Drive removal not necessary but helpful. If equipped with the mercathode cut the wires inside the boat and tie a pull string.Remove 2 nuts/bolts mercathode(if equipped) .
Pull hyd housing downward to reveal the hose connection .
Remove hoses from hyd pump mark how removed,tie pull string on each one MAKING SURE THEY STAY TIED ON .Make sure hoses are free to move toward the stern. pull hyd housing down R/R both hoses and gasket

 

[hughespat57]

As BtDoctur is pointing to, if the oil is in the bilge its an internal line, likely from over pressure from the bottom strike.
So the line will be the trim in or down line.
Remove the bottom manifold junction block from the bottom of the transom housing.
This is where the four external trim lines connect. Inside there are only two lines with fittings.
The line that is blown is going to be the trim in/down.
Follow the aft most connection on a trim cylinder, the one that typically has a length of S/S tubing running alongside the length of the trim cylinder.
This should be the aft two ports, the line inside above those two ports is the line to replace.
you say "alpha 3" is it an Alpha one, gen II or is it a Bravo 3? A 2007 likely the Bravo 3 but...
I believe Mercruiser uses the same manifold block for both

Alpha plumbing
http://www.sterndrive.info/alpha-one/trim_cylinder_hoses.html

 

[Ruski1107]

As BtDoctur is pointing to, if the oil is in the bilge its an internal line, likely from over pressure from the bottom strike.
So the line will be the trim in or down line.
Remove the bottom manifold junction block from the bottom of the transom housing.
This is where the four external trim lines connect. Inside there are only two lines with fittings.
The line that is blown is going to be the trim in/down.
Follow the aft most connection on a trim cylinder, the one that typically has a length of S/S tubing running alongside the length of the trim cylinder.
This should be the aft two ports, the line inside above those two ports is the line to replace.
you say "alpha 3" is it an Alpha one, gen II or is it a Bravo 3? A 2007 likely the Bravo 3 but...
I believe Mercruiser uses the same manifold block for both

Alpha plumbing
http://www.sterndrive.info/alpha-one/trim_cylinder_hoses.html

Yes, Bravo 3. Sorry

 

[hughespat57]

If you want to be sure before starting any work, just clean out the bilge, refill the pump reservoir and have someone pulse the trim in while you watch the lines.
If you don't have any splits or bulges in the line and if the oil is coming from the transom where the two hoses disappear.
Then it is likely you blew the hose out where it crimps onto the fittings, the fitting tube itself split or the line blew out of the manifold block (weakened from corrosion since water can often lay in there).

Really either way you will need to drop that manifold block to replace it or the line.

 

[Ruski1107]

That black part I’m pointing too is adhered pretty well. I assume I’m removing the correct area. Any ideas how to remove it?

 

[hughespat57]

That is the manifold block, gasket and gasket sealant is all it should be once the bolts are off.
Aluminum does have the bad habit of corroding itself to the stainless studs.
I use a stuff putty knife with a sharp edge on items like this most often.
Try to clean around those studs and soak them with a little wd40 or penetrating oil
This is what the other side looks like.
The extra plate and gasket cover the mercathode hole if not used (you have that)

 

[Ididntdoit]

if you have insurance, just file a claim and have it fixed

 

[Ruski1107]

if you have insurance, just file a claim and have it fixed

yeah, that’s what I’ve been told but I want to learn as much as I can about fixing my own boat. I’m treating this like a learning experience.

 

[Ruski1107]

I removed the manifold block partially. It doesn’t seem to want to go down any further. There appears to be one wire and one pipe running though it. How do the two hydraulic pump tubes run into one? Am I missing something? And how do I disconnect the tube that tilts the drive down and replace it?

 

[scoflaw]

They're not going to pull out until you disconnect them from the pump

 

[hughespat57]

The wire and/or hose are probably clamped or ty wrapped inside, you'll need to get some slack.
I think you only have one hose because that block looks so corroded the other boss has blown off.
If you can fish it out you may not need a line but a new manifold block.

look at the photo above I sent, there should be a threaded casting above each external hose pair.

 

[hughespat57]

The lines have flared ends and the nuts swivel on the S/S tubing

 

[Ruski1107]

What I mean is that the area indicated by the red arrow seems like one pipe. I have 4 metal hoses leading away from the manifold to the 2 rams. I have 2 much bigger plastic hydraulic trim hoses connected to my hydraulic pump that go under the mercruiser and enter a hole under the engine leading to the drive. I’m wondering how these 2 big Hydraulic hoses become this tiny tube indicated by the red arrow. I need to replace one of the hydraulic hoses and I’m not sure how to access it given what I’m seeing.

 

[DWABoat]

A good, reputable mechanic with an overhead hoist and proper tools could do that entire job in a normal workday. He would also inspect for cracks or other damage in your transom plate and lower unit from the strike. If he did the job, it would take less time than fighting changing lines while the engine was still in.

since your boat is a 2007, you may also have a leaking steering pin which will need to be addressed eventually. He would probably recommend dealing with that while the engine was out.

If a mechanic proposed all those things, I would not assume he was being dishonest.

I am not saying you should not do the job yourself. I am only stating I do not think the mechanics are being unreasonable by making those engine-pull recommendations.

 

[scoflaw]

What I mean is that the area indicated by the red arrow seems like one pipe. I have 4 metal hoses leading away from the manifold to the 2 rams. I have 2 much bigger plastic hydraulic trim hoses connected to my hydraulic pump that go under the mercruiser and enter a hole under the engine leading to the drive. I’m wondering how these 2 big Hydraulic hoses become this tiny tube indicated by the red arrow. I need to replace one of the hydraulic hoses and I’m not sure how to access it given what I’m seeing.

Your failure point was the block/manifold.

 

[Bt Doctur]

click to enlarge

 

[Ruski1107]

click to enlarge

This diagram helps a lot. Seems like the power trim hoses just end in the block though.

 

[Ruski1107]

A good, reputable mechanic with an overhead hoist and proper tools could do that entire job in a normal workday. He would also inspect for cracks or other damage in your transom plate and lower unit from the strike. If he did the job, it would take less time than fighting changing lines while the engine was still in.

since your boat is a 2007, you may also have a leaking steering pin which will need to be addressed eventually. He would probably recommend dealing with that while the engine was out.

If a mechanic proposed all those things, I would not assume he was being dishonest.

I am not saying you should not do the job yourself. I am only stating I do not think the mechanics are being unreasonable by making those engine-pull recommendations.

The power trim hoses go under the engine and through the transom into the drive. It just doesn’t make sense that removing the engine would give better access. The hole in the transom can be reached by reaching under the engine and feeding the hose through. I’ve been ripped off by mechanics and misdiagnosed. It’s hard to find one that is honest. Last time my boat kept dying once it started and the mechanic was positive it was bad fuel. He planned to discard all the fuel. It was a bad idle air control valve that I replaced myself. He also connected my new starter and didn’t connect the hydraulic motor to the starter and left a loose wire that doesn’t have an end on it. Instead of disconnecting the motor properly, he made it so that he would have to come back and attach it and wants to charge me $100 for traveling even though I never asked him to disconnect the power trim. He said he did that for my benefit. I understand mechanics need to make money but I’m finding a lot of dishonest businessmen in Florida. I come from Illinois where business people had a lot more ethics to go around. I appreciate the help. Hopefully I can find an ethical mechanic out here. This mechanic is really good. Smart guy. But would benefit us both if he had some ethics. Thanks again.