The future of EVs? Maybe not so bad?

[Nater Potater]

That sound is why I love the sound of start up of my 454s in the boat before the mufflers fill with water and muffle that beautiful music. Not quite the lopey idle of an aggressive cam in a big block street car, but a nice sound.

I envision myself sitting on the Norton at a traffic light, the engine making its slow rumbles as it rocks the frame fore and aft. Then, I think of the electric bike I have on order. Sitting there. Silent. Nothing. I dunno...

 

[zool]

I envision myself sitting on the Norton at a traffic light, the engine making its slow rumbles as it rocks the frame fore and aft. Then, I think of the electric bike I have on order. Sitting there. Silent. Nothing. I dunno...

Maybe selectable sound files and good subwoofer audio, and you can have the rumble, vibration, and crisp, un-interupted acceleration. Might sound a little lip synced tho

 

[jmauld]

I envision myself sitting on the Norton at a traffic light, the engine making its slow rumbles as it rocks the frame fore and aft. Then, I think of the electric bike I have on order. Sitting there. Silent. Nothing. I dunno...

I don’t know how quick that bike is, but if it’s anything like the Tesla, once you tell it to go, you will forget the noises.

 

[km1125]

I don’t know how quick that bike is, but if it’s anything like the Tesla, once you tell it to go, you will forget the noises.

Kind of like an orgasm without the actions, noises, smell, feel, etc, of sex?

 

[jmauld]

Kind of like a longer, more powerful orgasm with more feel, more actions, and different noises. It's not silent. Also, less maintenance and upkeep between sexual events.

 

[Nater Potater]

Kind of like an orgasm without the actions, noises, smell, feel, etc, of sex?

Kind of like a longer, more powerful orgasm with more feel, more actions, and different noises. It's not silent. Also, less maintenance and upkeep between sexual events.

Boy, that went down the tubes quickly!

 

[Nater Potater]

I don’t know how quick that bike is, but if it’s anything like the Tesla, once you tell it to go, you will forget the noises.

That's what I'm hoping for! It's listed as having a top speed of 80 mph. If that's a limit set by the controller, then it might just get up there really quick. That's my hope. However, based on the wattage rating, it looks like it's equivalent to an 18 horsepower motor. The Norton's around 45HP, but it weighs more than double what the EV weighs (not counting my lard ass). Now, if it'll just get here!

 

[Jus Cruisin]

This is Porsche ev Taycan noise. Every time I hear the one coming down the street in my sub, I immediately think of Tron. It's fairly loud because I'll hear it from at least a hundred yards away. Probably further.

 

[OllieC]

better

 

[Nater Potater]

This is Porsche ev Taycan noise. Every time I hear the one coming down the street in my sub, I immediately think of Tron. It's fairly loud because I'll hear it from at least a hundred yards away. Probably further.

Four wide tires and gearing (I think) on the Porch (yeah, I said porch). The bike runs with a hub motor in the rear wheel, so no chain, no belt. Stealth mode!

 

[sbw1]

This is Porsche ev Taycan noise. Every time I hear the one coming down the street in my sub, I immediately think of Tron. It's fairly loud because I'll hear it from at least a hundred yards away. Probably further.

Porsche is feeling the heat a bit as someone souped up a Tesla EV and made it go about as fast as a Taycan around the test track in Germany. Porsche pointed out that the performance was a bit of a flash in the pan because the Tesla was pretty much spent after the run. Apparently the Tacan can do the track multiple times without much degradation of performance. So they are stressing durability and sustained performance. Good to hear that at least they continue to improve these cars.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Never mind. Replied to an old post by accident

 

[jmauld]

Yes disconnecting from the grid is a safety issue. But the way they described it is that they not only had to disconnect from the grid but they had to disable the system completely. Full blackout of power at the house. That makes no sense to me but he signed up for it anyway. I’m not sure it’s completely true. I haven’t looked into it because it’s just going to piss me off if it is true

 

[Blueone]

This is Porsche ev Taycan noise. Every time I hear the one coming down the street in my sub, I immediately think of Tron. It's fairly loud because I'll hear it from at least a hundred yards away. Probably further.

That’s what I am missing …..racing gloves

 

[ttmott]

Yes disconnecting from the grid is a safety issue. But the way they described it is that they not only had to disconnect from the grid but they had to disable the system completely. Full blackout of power at the house. That makes no sense to me but he signed up for it anyway. I’m not sure it’s completely true. I haven’t looked into it because it’s just going to piss me off if it is true

There are three types of solar systems - Grid Tied, Hybrid, and Grid Independent.
Most that are sold and installed (because they are the cheapest and Gov sponsored incentives are prevalent) are Grid Tied. These systems are not for backup power in the event of an outage. All they do is supplement the Grid and consequently offset the consumer's cost for electrical power. As they are directly tied to the power supply from the utility they must terminate power production in the event of a utility outage to prevent electrical back-feed and hazard to the line workers. @jmauld - this is what you are in reference to.
The Hybrid have transfer switching, inverters and batteries to provide not only electrical power to the grid but also in the event of a utility outage transfers to the batteries, solar cells, and inverters for backup power. Tesla Powerwall does this. This technology is much more expensive than the simple Grid Tied systems.
Then there is Grid Independent which the solar system provides all the power to the house; the utility may still be there but only as a manual switched backup.

 

[jmauld]

It's the way it was described that they had to shut off power production (even on a hybrid system) on demand from the grid was the part that didn't sound right. I specifically asked him about how it would be handled with a battery backed system, and his response was the same, shut down solar production, not just disconnect from the grid.

I should probably take the time to find the regulations, because it just doesn't seem right. it would invalidate the entire point of the tesla powerwall.

 

[ttmott]

It's the way it was described that they had to shut off power production (even on a hybrid system) on demand from the grid was the part that didn't sound right. I specifically asked him about how it would be handled with a battery backed system, and his response was the same, shut down solar production, not just disconnect from the grid.

I should probably take the time to find the regulations, because it just doesn't seem right. it would invalidate the entire point of the tesla powerwall.

Yep - you are wrong there believing whomever. Do some research and report back. Answer me this if that is the case - shouldn't also home generators not be allowed to transfer on an outage? What is the difference?

 

[jmauld]

Yep - you are wrong there believing whomever. Do some research and report back. Answer me this if that is the case - shouldn't also home generators not be allowed to transfer on an outage? What is the difference?

To be clear, I have expressed my disbelief in that. I am being lazy in terms of looking it up. If it's meaningful to someone else, they can have a go at looking it up. I agree it's most likely incorrect, for all of the reasons that you stated.

 

[carterchapman]

What is a Battery?


The rest of the story...read it all so as to be really informed



What is a battery?' I think Tesla said it best when they called it an Energy Storage System. That's important.



They do not make electricity – they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid.



Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?



Einstein's formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the storage device, like a gas tank in a car.



There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single-use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals.



Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium. The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all batteries be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them.



All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery's metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill.



In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle single-use ones properly.



But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call environmentally destructive embedded costs.



Everything manufactured has two costs associated with it, embedded costs and operating costs. I will explain embedded costs using a can of baked beans as my subject.



In this scenario, baked beans are on sale, so you jump in your car and head for the grocery store. Sure enough, there they are on the shelf for $1.75 a can. As you head to the checkout, you begin to think about the embedded costs in the can of beans.



The first cost is the diesel fuel the farmer used to plow the field, till the ground, harvest the beans, and transport them to the food processor. Not only is his diesel fuel an embedded cost, so are the costs to build the tractors, combines, and trucks. In addition, the farmer might use a nitrogen fertilizer made from natural gas.



Next is the energy costs of cooking the beans, heating the building, transporting the workers, and paying for the vast amounts of electricity used to run the plant. The steel can holding the beans is also an embedded cost. Making the steel can requires mining taconite, shipping it by boat, extracting the iron, placing it in a coal-fired blast furnace, and adding carbon. Then it's back on another truck to take the beans to the grocery store. Finally, add in the cost of the gasoline for your car.



A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.



It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just one battery."



Sixty-eight percent of the world's cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?"



I'd like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being 'green,' but it is not! This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.



The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicone dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.



Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. Sadly, both solar arrays and windmills kill birds, bats, sea life, and migratory insects.



There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. I predict EVs and windmills will be abandoned once the embedded environmental costs of making and replacing them become apparent. "Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal and are easily espoused, catchy buzzwords, but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure.



If this had been titled… "The Embedded Costs of Going Green," would you have read it? Please share if you wish.

 

[jmauld]

That's a helluva tease they threw your way! I just got an update about my motorcycle; sometime in June. Well, as long as they leave me some Summer riding time...

I forgot to update this thread a few weeks ago.

happy wife with her Nuclear powered car!