State of the pleasure boat cruising economy

[Pseudomind]

Isn't it a bit ironic, that the more ethanol added to gas the more gallons of gas it takes to do the same amount of work, not to mention the double whammy of having to pay a $1.00 per gallon subsidy to produce?

 

[MonacoMike]

it's said, and it's not OBAMA's fault either, Speculators, now there's someone to fault for Gas and Fuel pricing..

Fooled by the folks who want you to blame others for their folly. The president of the US can lower fuel costs with a few words temporarily, and long term with a plan to extract US oil. The current “plan” is making extraction and refining more difficult than ever. MM

You might find this interesting:

http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/42548-Americans-blame-the-evil-%E2%80%9Coil-speculators%E2%80%9D-and-%E2%80%9Coil-companies%E2%80%9D-not-politicians.

 

[Four Suns]

Great picture!

Greg - were you tabbed down - and Gary - were you tabbed up?

That's a calendar photo. Nice job, Rick.




Looks like Gary's 4 extra antennas weight more than Greg's dinghy....LOL

OK... I remember now. I had full fuel and was running at 1850 RPMs so Mr. Gas Boat could keep up with us... I normally don't use the tabs and I normally don't run so damn slow.

 

[AKBASSKING]

Well All I can report on is Lake Michigan, which seems to be very quiet this year, even the Salmon aren't biting,

I was in Alaska over the 4th and on the Kenai River. No fish! They shut it down. Get back to the PNW and the Columbia is the same way, they shut it down yesterday for Kings.

Then today I read a story how over 230K sockeye crossed the sonors on the Kenai in one 24 hour period! They were just late! Broke all kinds of records and the river is back open without me!

Well now that I am in a slip, I guess I could just bow-in and fish out the back of the tub in the marina.......:grin::smt089

 

[WDCboater]

I can speak from previous seasons because I just bought my boat last Sept., but I have noticed a few things that seem like people are staying off the water.

I was down in Colonial Beach, VA in mid-June and I was talking with the dockmaster. To me it seems fairly busy, but she told me they were only about half full. Normally they apparently fill up every weekend during the summer. She also told me their 4th of July was still not booked up which she said almost never happens. (This was back in June, so I have no idea how they did)

At my marina I have noticed several boats have yet to move this season. I'm not sure if it's economic thing or people who just don't use their boats.

In terms of deals, they are out there. Our dealer actually does quite well since they are the closed SeaRay dealer to metro DC. They have a full lineup of Sundancers all the way up to a 2011 610. With that said, I noticed HUGE discounts at their spring boat show. They always do a show in Feb/March and this year was no exception. The hold the show at the dealer which has a large complex on the water. I priced out a 350 DA fully loaded for under $300k. The list on the boat was nearly $400 with all of the options. The deals were just as big on other Sundancers. If you have the finances, I'm betting next winter will be another good offseason to buy.

In terms of gas slowing us down, not at all. We budget for fuel. I figure why have the boat if it's never going to leave the dock. Also, for us, we can leave our marina, head up to Georgetown, anchor for the day and go back and burn only a gallon or two of gas. Not too shabby.

By the way, no knocking the Blue Moon with the orange. That's good stuff

 

[wvsundancer]

That was probably the best summation I've read of life as we know it these days.

That's kind of a short sighted view of what's going on. Many boaters purchased their boats several years ago before the market tanked in 2008 and before gas prices shot through the roof. At the time they bought it they were living within their means. Some/Many of them are now stuck with a boat that they're underwater on (financially speaking, of course) and owe more than what the boat is worth. They can't sell it because they'll have to come up with the extra cash to get out of their loan because the rising costs of everything takes a bigger bite out of their budget.

There aren't a lot of boat buyers out there right now and part of that is due to the high gas prices and the soaring prices of food and most everything else. Your Gubmint may be telling you there's no inflation, but one only has to go shopping for food, clothing or other household goods to know that prices are climbing fast.

So the bottom line is many boaters are stuck with a boat they can't sell and as long as they're making the monthlies on it they're going to use it. They may sit at the dock more, or do shorter cruises, but at least being on the water gets them out of the house for a day or two now and they and removes them from all the crap that's in the newspapers and on TV lately. That in itself is worth paying up for.

That just about sums it up for us.. we would love to move up but I am not willing to take 15 K out of the bank just to make it worth it to trade up. We have cut back on the long trips but we are out of the slip every weekend. The current situation has made us appericate the boat we have and we are using it.

 

[gregkjones]

The problem is the people in charge know exactly what they are doing. They want high prices all around because it benefits them both personally and as a government.
The high prices also cheapen our money which will make it cheaper in the future to pay back the obscene debt the government has run up and maybe even allow for more debt "until the crisis is over". It is to their benefit both as a government trying to pay it's bills and as a government trying to stay in power and continue it's change on America for high prices and other problems to continue.

That is right on. My rant follows. Disregard if you hate economy talk.

If you ever get the chance to read the book 'The Creature from Jekyll Island', do it. It is about the estabishment of an illegal prime bank in the USA in 1913. Since it was illegal to have a prime bank, which has ruined many civilizations due to manipulation of gold backed money into fiat currency, it was illegal to establish one here in the US by the men that drafted the Constitution. To get around that problem, the rich bankers met at a private island and hatched a plan to sell an idea to the Congress for a prime bank. The ploy was that they could reduce "runs on the bank" and calm the peaks and vallies in our economy. Sounded good on the surface. Truth was this was to establish a cartel of sorts to avoid every Tom, Dick and Henry from loaning money and keeping all loaning processes in "the club" of of big boys of sorts, but they had to call it something else, something that wouldnt scare everyone away. They called it the Federal Reserve, which is neither Federal or reserve. They print money when the government is short on cash since it is illegal for our government to print the money. With the fake money printed by an outside source, the government gets around that little thorn in the Constitution and "borrows" money from the Fed Res, and the saddest part, we pay interest to the Fed for the fake money they print as a fee for the workaround (or reacharound better put). When the government cant get the citizens to go for higher taxes and wont get its budget inline with reality, they ask for the Fed to make some dough, the money supply doubles, the value of the money in our pockets halves. It is easier to print money to pay for things and not raise taxes or cut budgets because in general people do not understand much about the hidden tax they pay every year which is? inflation. Do it over and over again carefully, and next thing you know $14 trillion in federal debt isnt so big after all. Keep in mind, a billion in debt used to look enormous many years back but not anymore. Why is that? inflation. It will happen again. By the year 2040 $14 trillion will be like the glory days. On the plus side, your house will slowly go back up price as it adjusts for inflation too, making it look like all is getting better. Wages trail upward and eventually you do make it up with most losses of income coming in the years it takes to catch up to the big spikes in inflation. Biggest problem? Fuel price is based on currency value internationally so that will always go up when buying it from foreign sources and then it trickles into everything we buy. Also people on fixed income get hammered since the gov bases social security payments based on the CPI which ironically, excludes the only thing older folks on fixed income really HAVE to have, which is energy/fuel and food, which have almost doubled in 2 years despite our mear 3% inflation value they state we have. Its a scam and we are along for the ride. Generally only the low end of the upper class and down gets badly hurt when lifetime savings are deminished by the inflation process. The ultra wealthy usually have plenty of escape routes, one of which being gold which has doubled just as has energy and food. That is no surprise as the gold really hasnt gone up but actually the dollar that went down, yes some of the upward swing is from supply and demand but that just makes the point, why all the demand? Its because the people that have the big bucks know what is going on and they are hedging for inflation so their empires arent crushed as has happened with every civilization that resorts to fiat currencies. It sucks but it is what we are dealing with today and I think this is closer to the beginning than the end for inflation. Sorry for the rant.

 

[jitts3]

It is real simple, I am into RVs as well. Fuel keeps me on short trips as well as fewer long trips. Using a boat runs about the same, if you managed to keep it you use it less or make a trip cheaper. Like going on shorter trips. You big boys with big boats use more fuel to go the same distance. So it is exponential. A guy like Gary could go the same distance as me for quadruple the cost. Between big payments, as most have and way more fuel burned. Thank god Gary can still run his as he does. But many of us have cut down big time. I drive a Peterbilt for a living. I couldn't imagine paying this things fuel bill for recreation Tx for dual diesel engine boats.

In short, we all got hit and we all cut back.

As for living within our means, well that is up to ones definition. While I will never make payments on toys, most will. Is that wrong, not necessarily. But it does place you at some more risk than I. That decision is up to the individule. The consequences fall in our decisions. I have 8 cars, 1 travel trailer, 1 Motorhome and 2 boats. All paid for and in various conditions and ALL OLD. It works for me and my lifestyle. It would not work for most of you. It doesnt make any of us wrong. If I just had a simple car and tiny boat on payments, I would have lost them.

I am glad to see people struggle to still go out than just give up. It is just sad that we have been dealt a bad hand. Hopefully those bastards in DC figure out that you can't continue the handouts.

 

[Bugsy24]

Hey Jitts, there's something... Logical in your Philosophy!

 

[steppinstone]

How about Marina seasonal rates? My Marina has generally been sold out for the season each year well before the season starts. This year there are a few vacant seasonal slips left at this point and I don't see much activity toward filling them. In my line of work most of my contemporaries have adjusted their pricing downward in an effort to attract what little business is out there. I was surprised to see little price reduction on the part of my Marina or others in the area. I guess as long as they fill up or get nearly there then there is no point in discounting. Just wondering what others are seeing.

 

[jitts3]

How about Marina seasonal rates? My Marina has generally been sold out for the season each year well before the season starts. This year there are a few vacant seasonal slips left at this point and I don't see much activity toward filling them. In my line of work most of my contemporaries have adjusted their pricing downward in an effort to attract what little business is out there. I was surprised to see little price reduction on the part of my Marina or others in the area. I guess as long as they fill up or get nearly there then there is no point in discounting. Just wondering what others are seeing.

I don't dock at marinas yet I frequent campgrounds in RVs. Kinda the same thing. The cost of fuel to get there slows me down. If the campgrounds were to raise or lower prices, that would not effect me as much and would not be a deal breaker. The campgrounds and marinas know that a $10 or $20 per night wont cause us to stay home.

 

[Theresamarie11]

Our July 4th was way down! Normally you can't hardly see breaks between the boats watching the fireworks, this yeare I think there were more police/coast guard boats than people in boats watching the fireworks.

Course, our marinas were still recovering from the spring flood (highest water on record) and a lot of boaters either can't get their boat out, or at this point are saying why. The season here is so short to begin with, to lose almost 2 months of water time is to much. Then we have the cost of gas on top of that.
I go out after work, and on weekends and the number of boats in all my normal boating areas are way down, more than I've ever seen before in all my life on the lake.

A little more obama economy and we'll get the rest of those tax dollars from those last few that are making it out there to put in everyone else's pockets.

-VtSeaRay

Mallet's bay has been full since it opened up, and our marina was open on the 15th or May, but others were much later due to the flood waters. I saw less folks at the fireworks this year (we were there) but then the main lake was a little rough going out that day, so smaller boats might have been turned away early.
Not sure on the Obama comments from you and others. Our US taxes are the lowest % of GDP since 1950 and all of the paid press would like you to think otherwise. I think it's called feeding you the koolaid. I know I pay my fair share, and I wish everyone (and US corporation) would. Not to mention all of the big US companies keeping their money in foreign countries (GE, Cisco, etc). Fuel at $5 a gallon does make it expensive for big boats, but if you buy the boat you have to be ready to pay the price to run it. I kind of see the same thing as every year for big boats. We have a whole lot of them that don't move very often from the docks. Although for that I'm partially grateful, because those same folks are usually a bit (lot) tipsy.

 

[Theresamarie11]

All this talk about the price of fuel but no one has complained about how much their boat cost. If people can't afford the price of fuel maybe they shouldn't have bought such a big boat. Does living within your means ring a bell?

Now here's someone who's making sense. Anyone sporting a 40' plus boat shouldn't be complaining about fuel prices.

 

[jitts3]

How can you possibly plan for fuel to better than double since buying a boat. Some guys here have large boats that are as old as 1989. Gas was like $0.79 per gal. Even last year gas was less than half of today. Food has gone up due to fuel costs as well as commodity in the food. Corn, wheat ext. Nobody can plan for that. I just hear anger and jealousy talking. I love that guys on here have way nicer and bigger boats then I. Maybe one day I can have one. So long as they don't look down on me for having less then them, you could see my old tubs tied to a yacht with all of us drinking beer. I have less and am not jealously angry. Jealous yes, but also motivated to do better.

Maybe you should try harder to rise a few notches rather than try to drag others down.

 

[Theresamarie11]

Spoken like a true Lib.

First off, as highlighted above, the game has changed. When most of us bought our boats, fuel was half of what it is now per gallon, groceries were half of what they are now, energy for the home was half of what it is now, need I go on? My income sure as hell has not doubled along with the cost of everything associated with living, has yours? Didn't think so.



By the logic that you and gnephew go by, we should be able to absorb $10 gas and be loving life because we are "living in our means"...... BULL****!

Take your high and mighty, holier than thou logic and cram it.

Besides being generally offensive, your facts are just plain wrong. Gas is about a dollar a gallon more than '07 (when your boat was made). I'm also pretty sure groceries aren't double what they were in '07 either. My home fuel costs are far from double what they were in 07 and I live in Vermont where there is a lot less competition. Liberals didn't create the economic problem, I think those other guys did. But I like to think I'm fiscally conservative, and intelligent. I'm sorry you feel liberals are bad for some reason. I respect my elders and how they built this country with their blood, sweat and tears. My dad was a tool and die maker in Detroit and worked his tail off to support 6 kids and always lived within his means. I honor the ground my father walks on and anyone like him. I watched as his company closed their doors and moved south to avoid unions, and then tried to eliminate their pensions (which they fought and won). Then I watched as the next few companies he worked for moved operations to Mexico (borg-warner, etc) I hope those same people who built this country can get social security and their pensions and not have to live their final years in poverty because the guys shipping all the manufacturing overseas so they can pocket profits and buy mega-yachts need even more excess. Sorry if that impacts your big boating capability! I hold doors for everyone, I let people into traffic, and I don't cheat on my taxes. I try to give back as much as I get in everything I do. I am socially liberal and ficscally conservative and I live within my means. I'm not sure how 'people like me' are a problem. I am not high and mighty, in fact I act just the opposite. But I do get a bit excited when someone starts to generalize and throw around the wrong facts. FACT: Tax rate as a percentage of gdp is the lowest since 1950 (why we have such a deficit), taxes of companies as a % of GDP is actually lowest for USA versus ALL industrialized nations (again, why we have a deficit). There is a problem but it's not liberals.

 

[jitts3]

I think that anyone sporting bigger than 26 ft boats with twin-V8s shouldn't cry about gas prices anyway....

Well not really, but you get my point.

 

[boltman]

OK Gary I agree, and Damn I didn't know you ran so fast I'm normally running at 1850, right around 23 knots, it's comfortable and the boat like it, anyfaster and I'm just running for the Middle easterns to Love....Not me slower the better, actually I like 10 knots and so does the wife...

 

[dpvandy01]

my 100 mile run for fun clearly came at a cost in fuel.... 70 gal @ 4.75/gal BUT........ that is not and was not and for the foreseeable future will not be a complaint.. When got in to boating i had a 4.3L on a 3500 pound boat and gas in the 1.50/gal range.... I now have a 7.4L on an 8000lb boat + a 3.0L on an additional runabout.... (Both of which are paid off and free and clear) and all is firmly attributable to CODB! While not a fixed cost it is a known expense for my situation. I KNOW I WILL BE SPENDING MONEY ON GAS...... and even more importantly, for my family I KNOW THE REWARD FAR OUT WEIGHS THE EXPENSE!!!!

but that's just me

 

[JediJD]

What are they smoking in Vermont? Gas is roughly a third higher than in '07. Purchasing power has dropped roughly 20% and continues to drop as the dollar tries to find some equilibrium against foreign currencies. Liberals didn't create the fire...they simply added fuel to the smoldering pile left by careless and irresponsible Republican campers. The issue isn't "tax rate as a percentage of GDP". If you took every single dollar from every single taxpayer and company making over $250k and just TOOK it...it isn't enough (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/262045/there-aren-t-enough-millionaires-kevin-d-williamson). Also, corporations don't pay taxes...people pay taxes. Corporations are owned by people. We have over-regulated, over-legislated, over-managed and over-protected an entire economy. It wasn't just the labor costs that sent everything everywhere, it was a nanny state government, thought police, and insecure court system that scared the livin' bat poop out of anyone with any sense whatsoever. You can throw rocks at the 40' plus boat crowd, but they are the ones paying salaries...not a lot of 16' runabouts (I know, there are some) in that space. And as you throw the blame their way, remember that 90% of the population believes that your 300 is a yacht that should be nationalized...because their life sucks.

Besides being generally offensive, your facts are just plain wrong. Gas is about a dollar a gallon more than '07 (when your boat was made). I'm also pretty sure groceries aren't double what they were in '07 either. My home fuel costs are far from double what they were in 07 and I live in Vermont where there is a lot less competition. Liberals didn't create the economic problem, I think those other guys did. But I like to think I'm fiscally conservative, and intelligent. I'm sorry you feel liberals are bad for some reason. I respect my elders and how they built this country with their blood, sweat and tears. My dad was a tool and die maker in Detroit and worked his tail off to support 6 kids and always lived within his means. I honor the ground my father walks on and anyone like him. I watched as his company closed their doors and moved south to avoid unions, and then tried to eliminate their pensions (which they fought and won). Then I watched as the next few companies he worked for moved operations to Mexico (borg-warner, etc) I hope those same people who built this country can get social security and their pensions and not have to live their final years in poverty because the guys shipping all the manufacturing overseas so they can pocket profits and buy mega-yachts need even more excess. Sorry if that impacts your big boating capability! I hold doors for everyone, I let people into traffic, and I don't cheat on my taxes. I try to give back as much as I get in everything I do. I am socially liberal and ficscally conservative and I live within my means. I'm not sure how 'people like me' are a problem. I am not high and mighty, in fact I act just the opposite. But I do get a bit excited when someone starts to generalize and throw around the wrong facts. FACT: Tax rate as a percentage of gdp is the lowest since 1950 (why we have such a deficit), taxes of companies as a % of GDP is actually lowest for USA versus ALL industrialized nations (again, why we have a deficit). There is a problem but it's not liberals.

 

[Theresamarie11]

What are they smoking in Vermont? Gas is roughly a third higher than in '07. Purchasing power has dropped roughly 20% and continues to drop as the dollar tries to find some equilibrium against foreign currencies. Liberals didn't create the fire...they simply added fuel to the smoldering pile left by careless and irresponsible Republican campers. The issue isn't "tax rate as a percentage of GDP". If you took every single dollar from every single taxpayer and company making over $250k and just TOOK it...it isn't enough (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/262045/there-aren-t-enough-millionaires-kevin-d-williamson). Also, corporations don't pay taxes...people pay taxes. Corporations are owned by people. We have over-regulated, over-legislated, over-managed and over-protected an entire economy. It wasn't just the labor costs that sent everything everywhere, it was a nanny state government, thought police, and insecure court system that scared the livin' bat poop out of anyone with any sense whatsoever. You can throw rocks at the 40' plus boat crowd, but they are the ones paying salaries...not a lot of 16' runabouts (I know, there are some) in that space. And as you throw the blame their way, remember that 90% of the population believes that your 300 is a yacht that should be nationalized...because their life sucks.

Like I said, it's not double. A third higher is a dollar higher which is what i said. And I don't smoke. I am not an economist and don't pretend to be and I bet you're not either. We all want to live a good life, but don't seem to want to pay for good roads or pay for those who paved the way for us (our elders).. I'll be the first to agree the gov't wastes too much money, so lets fix it. But lets not fix it by cutting social security to the old who didn't even know what a 401K was when they were working their tails off. And lets not fix it by cutting taxes more, which just creates a bigger hole for our kids kids kids to dig out of. It has to be balanced. The country has huge issues that need serious and non-political and non-self-serving solutions.. it's going to be painful for everyone. Rhetoric and name calling isn't going to do anything. Corporations do pay taxes, and the US corporations pay less than any industrialized nation. They can't fix the problem, but they can pay their fair share and that's all I'm advocating, is for everyone to pay their fair share.

I'm also pretty sure I didn't pick on the big boat crowd at all, what I suggested is if you have a big boat you should be prepared to put gas in it. And i you're driving a 40' boat and worried about groceries, you prob shouldn't have bought a 40' boat. Not sure that's picking on anyone.

And I do know I'm fortunate. I have 3 wonderful sons the oldest of which is a Marine, who I'm doubly proud of!!