Soft Spot in Cabin Deck - 2000 260DA

FishOn

FishOn

Member
May 2, 2018
128
Washington State
Boat Info
2000 260 Sundancer 260DA
Engines
5.7 Mercruiser w/ Bravo3
Hi all,
Looking for some help. I noticed a soft spot under the carpet in the cabin of my 260DA yesterday. Not sure if it has been there for a while and I just noticed it or it is new. I may try peeling back the carpet today to see what I find, . I can't find any threads about this matter so I'm assuming it isn't a common condition.? Does anyone know what is under there? Are there wood stringers? Is there any inspection access other than the small access under the stair? Any thoughts/experiences/advice are appreciated.
 
You're correct that this is a very uncommon condition. In fact, it's the first I have ever heard of it. That said, what's happened/not happened on other boats means didley squat to you! :)

Since you mentioned the step access, is it safe to assume that the floor section you are talking about is the main section by the galley? Because of the stringers, I think the only possible access you might have for a snake camera is going to be under the steps... but I think the forward section of that "fwd bilge" under the steps has a fwd bulkhead?

FYI... pulling the carpet up is not a quick endeavor.
 
Lazy Daze, yes, the deck inward of the sink which is about 2 - 3 feet forward of the step access (for the forward bilge pump, and garbage can). I have read that the carpet is glued down pretty good. Seems I likely will need to pull that up anyhow though. The soft spot is maybe 6 inches long. It can be felt when standing there. I don't have a snake cam unfortunately. Maybe I'd better get one? Will need to look in there again to see if there's any access. I don't think the bulkhead goes all the way to the bottom of the bilge. Need to look.
 
FishOn said:
Lazy Daze, yes, the deck inward of the sink which is about 2 - 3 feet forward of the step access (for the forward bilge pump, and garbage can). I have read that the carpet is glued down pretty good. Seems I likely will need to pull that up anyhow though. The soft spot is maybe 6 inches long. It can be felt when standing there. I don't have a snake cam unfortunately. Maybe I'd better get one? Will need to look in there again to see if there's any access. I don't think the bulkhead goes all the way to the bottom of the bilge. Need to look.
Click to expand...
To create that issue the area must have been wet for some time. I would probe the area you found to be soft, through the carpet with an awl or ice pick type tool. Determine the full area of the soft plywood. Once you do that you could make an x-shaped cut through the carpet with a very sharp utility knife. Hold the pile away so you cut only the backing. Carefully peel the carpet back in that area and staple it out of the way. Cut the damaged section back to sound material using an orbital saw so you can control the depth and cut close to any obstacles. Remove the damage, inspect and repair. Seal all edges and faces. Glue the carpet back in place pulling the edges together. Use temporary staples again to hold it until the glue sets up.
 
Well from what you guys are saying I'm taking that the material under the carpet is marine plywood instead of glass (like everything else in there)? I suppose there's a possibility that it has been damp, but not so much that walking on it in socks would get them damp. So I dunno. It's not a moldy boat as far as I can see and I've done my best to keep moisture out of the cabin. I'll use your approach to inspect. Good idea. I'm thinking I may go with an alternate flooring like some others have posted. The carpet is OK but is showing its age.
 
20210118_144757.jpg
As you said Lazy Daze there is in fact a bulkhead forward of the stair access. Would have to drill a hole to get though. I peeled back the carpet. See photo. Oy. At least what I'm seeing is a relatively small area. Looks like I have a project. Any suggestions?
 
So I guess as you mentioned Juliery some moisture must have been trapped in there for some time. I'd say to anyone using a runner carpet, make sure to pull it out regularly. What I see under the carpet is a layer of glasses over plywood with another layer beneath it. Looks like the lower layer is between the stringers. Not sure how the water got through the fiberglass overlay. Must've fractured at some point I guess. I scraped out all of the bad wood that i could see (attached photo). Looks like the lower plywood is OK. Please let me know what precautions i should now take, if i should look at anything additional, and how you'd suggest repairing this. Thanks!
 

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FishOn said:
So I guess as you mentioned Juliery some moisture must have been trapped in there for some time. I'd say to anyone using a runner carpet, make sure to pull it out regularly. What I see under the carpet is a layer of glasses over plywood with another layer beneath it. Looks like the lower layer is between the stringers. Not sure how the water got through the fiberglass overlay. Must've fractured at some point I guess. I scraped out all of the bad wood that i could see (attached photo). Looks like the lower plywood is OK. Please let me know what precautions i should now take, if i should look at anything additional, and how you'd suggest repairing this. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The first step is to use a localized fan, some mild heat and ventilation to completely dry the area. Rotten wood is contaminated with fungus spores. There are several effective wood preservers that can be soaked into the area and then left to dry. Once that is done, clean up the edges and replace the damaged section using epoxy or a polyurethane glue and screws.
 
Yep, already drying it with a fan forced heater. I wonder if I should have someone inspect the stringers at this point. Going to take out the rest of the carpet tomorrow.
 
Don't be afraid to cut more wood out. The fix is really not any harder because of it. Cut a new piece that's bigger than the area you think is wet. Use that new piece and trace it onto the existing as a template so you know what to cut out for a perfect match with no measuring. You can use an oscilating tool to cut down on dust and control the depth. Don't worry if you go into the lower ply a bit - it will all get fixed/filled in with resin (poly or epoxy). Depending on exactly what's there and how you want to attack this, you can use any combination of resin/lightweight glass/thickened resin/even construction adhesive. You don't have to perfect - just mostly flat - the new floor (whatever it ends up being) will of course cover it all up. Just make sure your repair is waterproof - and possibly re-do the rest of that floor area for good measure.

It's highly doubtful the moisture got into the stringers. They're a separate entity (during building) than the floor. It would take A LOT more moisture and time to possibly be an issue.

Be glad you're not doing this... my Grady project about 5 years ago that started with a 2' square soft spot...

IMG-3923.jpg
 
Holy mackerel Lazy Daze! I sure this doesn't turn into that! Good advice to cut out more than needed. What is an "oscillating tool"? Like a jig saw? I have a thing that cuts using a special drill bit. Can't recall what they called the thing. I'm thinking I'll cut some of that lower plywood (the second layer). That way I can look around in there. They water proofed the whole thing originally by the fiberglass overlay. Should I do that? Thanks!
 
Yup - that's it. Great tool to have around for lot's of projects. If you don't want to spend the money on a cordless one, look closely in that picture I posted - you'll see a Dremel brand corded tool. It's the beefier one they make - I think it's the 45 MAX - or something like that. I beat that thing up on that project and it's still going strong. You don't have a lot of work to do so the battery issue won't be a problem, especially if you have two. But for bigger jobs, a battery powered tool can sometimes be an annoyance.
 
Thanks Lazy Daze! Can't make out what is in the photo but will look up the model you mention. Wouldn't mind saving a little money. That thing would probably also be useful for getting the rest of the carpet out. I HOPE I don't have a lot of work to do, as you stated. Hopefully I won't encounter a can of worms like you did! Im trying to find information on what is below the area that I'll be working on. Does anyone know of any resources for this? I'd rather know exactly what I'm opening up. It seems that all damage in this case was due to moisture on top. The lower wood appears solid. I am inclined to cut into the lower wood to inspect the lower area. Just not sure if I'll just find a bed of foam or something which would preclude any visibility. Is that forward chamber completely sealed off from the rest of the bilge? If so I'd assume that there is absolutely no way any moisture can get in there? Unless of course the sprayed in fiberglass is compromise (as it looks like it was on mine).
 
Do you know where the water/moisture came from? I'd hate to see you do all this, and have the problem all over again in a year or 2.
 
At this point it looks like the wetness was confined to the top layer of plywood. That may just have accumulated I suppose. It stays fairly cool down there even if using a cabin heater. I think normally a little dampness in the carpet, though not great, would be OK. In this case it migrated through the fiberglass and into the plywood. That of course is not good. I don't know how the fiberglass was breached. That likely occurred before I owned it (3.5 years). I am think of cutting out some of the lower plywood to see if there's any water below. If there is I'll definitely look further. It seems that someone may have drilled a hole at some time in the past pretty near the problem. I found an ~3/4" hole, unless that's supposed to be there? This may have been how the water got through the fiberglass, maybe. It's odd though as there is no indication that the hole was drilled by looking at the carpet.
 
I sure wish I could locate a schematic or picture of what exactly is contained in this forward compartment. Would be a good thing to post on this forum. This area is just a black box on these vessels. I may put an access panel in to aid in future inspections. Any reason I shouldn't do this (i.e. the compartment must remain completely sealed)?
 
The Dremel is next to the impact driver... but that's OK, you don't really have to see it. It was just something I mentioned, since it was there.

I want to say that the "black box" is filled with foam, but I'm not 100%. Either way, though, it is sealed from the rest of the cabin - in reality, whether it has foam or not doesn't matter too much. If you're going to remove the lower ply, and it does have foam in there, you can just dig out the foam to check for wetness at the bottom. You could also drill an exploratory hole at the bottom of the fwd bulkhead that is in that area under the steps. See if anything drains out - let it open for a few days - then seal it back up.

If you remove the table base, you can see into the "void" area underneath it... I'm not sure if you'll be able to see into the "black box" area. I'm thinking there might be another bulkhead between the two areas - but it's easy enough to check.
 
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