So you got into a shooting. Now what?

[Gofirstclass]

So you got into a shooting. Now What?

There have been a number of threads recently that have been about guns and shootings and jury trials. In reading through those, not surprisingly there has been a lot of misinformation coming out. I thought I would share some of the knowledge I gained from my years as a cop so in the unfortunate situation where you found yourself involved in a shooting you would know what to do and more importantly, what NOT to do or say following the event.

Immediately following the shooting you are going to find yourself in a physiological condition like you’ve probably never experienced before. Your adrenaline rush is likely going to give you a serious case of the tremors that you cannot stop. Your body is full of adrenaline and it’s going to take awhile for you to process it. My best suggestion at that time is to first, make sure you are no longer in any danger.

Does anyone in the immediate vicinity pose a threat to you? If not, rest assured the cops will be coming so make yourself presentable to them. Drop to your knees, lay your gun out to the side or in front of you so they can see it and know you do not pose a threat to them.

Now I’m going to give you what is probably the most important thing I can: DO NOT SAY ANYTHING TO ANYONE. Anything you utter will be heard and/or recorded by someone and it will come back to bite you on the ass. Trust me on that. There’s a reason why the number one Miranda Warning is “You have the right to remain silent.” Let’s say, for instance that after you shoot someone you utter “Well that son of a bitch got what he deserved.” Once those words are out there WILL be someone repeating that sentence in court and it won’t sound good for you.

When the cops arrive, they will handcuff you, advise you of your rights then ask you what happened. D O N O T S A Y A W O R D except to ask for your attorney. Remember, you will still be full of adrenaline, not thinking clearly and anything you say will be used against you in court. That, BTW is the second Miranda Warning, and for good reason.

When I got into my shooting all I said to the Lieutenant who arrived at the scene to take over the investigation, when he asked me what happened I replied “My gun fired a shot and hit that man.” There was no danger to anyone so there was no need for me to say anything else. Nuff said about that.

WHEN THEY TAKE YOU TO THE STATION

Enroute to the station the cop who is driving is likely to ask you about the shooting. Do NOT say a word except to politely ask if you can make a couple of phone calls when you arrive. That won’t happen immediately because they will have to process you. When they do let you make a call, if you do not have an attorney ask to speak to a public defender. Keep in mind that anything you say on a police phone may be recorded so be VERY brief with the PD. Ask him to come to the station to help you. He likely will do that. After all, he’s getting paid. The next call should be to your wife or S.O. She’s going to see you on TV so you want her to know you’re OK, not hurt, but won’t be home soon. (If you have kids in school, keep them home the next day. The kids they go to school with will have heard it on the news that night and will tease/question your kids the day following the shooting.)

[Continued]

 

[Gofirstclass]

IF YOUR SHOOTING HAPPENS AT HOME

My wife and I have agreed that if I shoot someone in or around our home she is to remain hidden until I call her and tell her it’s clear to come out. The last thing I want her to do is to rush out to see if I’m OK and possibly put herself in the middle of an ongoing shooting situation. If you keep a gun in the house for protection you should consider having this conversation with your wife. Depending on how old your kids are will determine who takes immediate care of them .


WHILE YOUR ATTORNEY IS ENROUTE TO THE JAIL

Again, do not make any statements to anyone. Not another person in the cell with you, nobody. Ask one of the cops if you can have a pen and paper to make notes. If they give you that, write down everything you can think of as fast as you can. When your attorney (or PD) gets there the cops will take you to a private interview room where you can talk openly with your attorney. Show him the notes you wrote and try to recall everything that happened.

About now you will be coming down from the adrenaline high. You’ll still be shaky but your memory will start to clear up.


AFTER THE DUST HAS SETTLED

You probably will be held in jail overnight and have your initial court appearance the next day. Your attorney will be with you and you will enter a “not guilty” plea. It’s up to the judge if he releases you on your PR or wants you to post bail. Either way, unless you’re a bad actor in your own right, you probably will be released on your own recognizance.

Be prepared for questions and strange looks from your friends and neighbors. They will mostly be afraid to mention the shooting. My suggestion would be to contact a psychiatrist or psychologist to talk with. I’m not suggesting there’s anything wrong with you, but your mind will be messed up for awhile. Trust me on that one. There are many weird things that will happen to your mind following the shooting. I was prepared for most of them but one caught me off guard. It’s called the “Mark of Cain” complex and when it hit me I felt like everyone on the street knew what I did and they were all talking about me and the shooting. We went to a movie with some friends the night after the shooting. We got there early and as others walked in and came up the aisles I just knew they were whispering about me.

The mind is a strange thing and it can make you believe all sorts of things. That’s why seeing a shrink is a good thing.

IN CLOSING

Well that’s about it. Let's hope you never have to use any of this info. Anything anyone else can add to this is welcome to do it. Questions? Fire away.

 

[boatman37]

My step-son (now a detective cpl) shot a guy back about 2010 or so (about 2 years or so into his career). The guy survived and I don't know all of the details but it happened about 3:00AM. The DA and Chief showed up at the scene. They took his duty weapon and handed him another one then took his statement. There were about 4 or 5 officers on scene when this took place and a few of them fired shots. The story was a man held his daughters boyfriend hostage in their house and kicked everyone else out. 'B' was the first on scene and had a new hire riding with him. After a short time the others showed up. The man had fired a shot through his ceiling then came to the front door with a handgun in one hand and a shotgun in the other. The man pointed his handgun right at 'B' so 'B' fired. The suspect flinched back like he was hit in the shoulder then fired a round. A few other officers fired then too. The man was hit in the upper chest and in the leg. They couldn't say for certain who actually hit him but based on him flinching and holding has arm tight to his side they were pretty sure 'B' hit the guy in the chest and one of the other officers hit him in the leg. Anyway, the DA was at the scene and said sounded like a good shoot and the Chief told him to go home for the night. He was required to meet with a psychiatrist and IIRC he was on desk duty for a week to be sure he was ok. We talked to him the morning after and you could tell he was affected by it. He wasn't depressed but just off, almost like talking to a shell. He ended up fine and later said that he did what he had to do and that the suspect is the one that dictated the actions that happened. There are still bullet holes in the fence and wood (T111) beside the doorway. IIRC there were 24 or so rounds fired total and he was only hit twice but it was like an alcove where the door was about 2' back from the wall so the officers at an angle had a hard time getting a good shot.

 

[Creekwood]

@Gofirstclass that is great advice that I will do everything I can to never have to use.

 

[northshore]

Hope I never need it but thanks for posting this!

 

[Mark.60]

Thanks for sharing your experience

 

[dvx216]

This is very important information. Always thought the 2nd. Amendment falls short because it doesn't spell out the burden that comes with having the Right.

 

[LTD.330]

Massad Ayoob is one of the premiere experts on the law surrounding the use of lethal force. He has written a book that anyone who has a firearm they may use for self-defense should read.

https://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Force-Understanding-Right-Defense/dp/1440240612

 

[MonacoMike]

GFC, great post!!!

 

[JHornsby3]

Exactly everything I have been taught in all the classes I have taken. And for the most part, not how it goes down. But that depends on the state you live in.

I just love those that claim "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6". Try it sometime. The pain and crap you have to go through? I'd rather be dead than watch my family suffer. And unless your a cop or some shit. It never goes as the "experts" say it does. Well, maybe if you can afford that $4000 an hour 2A lawyer.

 

[OllieC]

Thanks GFC. I have a summarized version I learned from my instructor.

When calling 911:
1. I witness someone shot
2. I need an ambulance
3. I need to be picked up and taken back home (if away)

Don’t need to say you shot someone

When the LEO arrives:
1.Ask for an attorney
2.He attacked me and I want to file charges
3.There’s the evidence (assuming there’s a weapon)
4.I want an attorney

Nothing more and nothing less. If they ask if you shot the perp or if the weapon used is yours, repeat steps 1-4….and shut up.

edit: after re-reading what you wrote GFC, it’s possible that what I posted is saying too much.

 

[Pirate Lady]

JH, agree. Look up what i said in another thread. I am truly sorry some of you can afford a nice really expensive boat and live in such bad areas that you have to carry weapons. And i mean it.
I chose to live in a nice area. Dont lock doors until bed time. Out now, doors unlocked.
Oh and i live in the burbs of Baltimurder.
Hey guns are cool, i have a few. But if i need to investigate how to plan a defense if i shoot someone, time for a reality check.

 

[firecadet613]

JH, agree. Look up what i said in another thread. I am truly sorry some of you can afford a nice really expensive boat and live in such bad areas that you have to carry weapons. And i mean it.
I chose to live in a nice area. Dont lock doors until bed time. Out now, doors unlocked.
Oh and i live in the burbs of Baltimurder.
Hey guns are cool, i have a few. But if i need to investigate how to plan a defense if i shoot someone, time for a reality check.

I'm sure 99.9% of us here live in nice, safe neighborhoods. But, @Pirate Lady, thugs and criminals have cars and are mobile....once they clean out the hood - they move out...

And...100% of us don't stay home every day of our lives. Never know when SHTF. Follow these guys on youtube to see what goes on out there... https://www.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelfProtection

 

[blaster]

My advice to GFC’S recommendation to speak with a mental health professional is to be aware that they are not an attorney. While there is a level of privilege in your meeting with them, their records and notes can and likely will be subpoenaed. They may move to quash the subpoena but that is not a chance worth taking. Keep your conversation about your feelings and not specifics of the event. The chosen mental health professional may also be called as a witness so choose wisely.

 

[Gofirstclass]

JH, agree. Look up what i said in another thread. I am truly sorry some of you can afford a nice really expensive boat and live in such bad areas that you have to carry weapons.

Pirate your comments would ring true if you never left the nice home you live in. However, most of us venture out of our nice homes in nice neighborhoods into areas that are not so nice. I have found that not all shootings occur in bad neighborhoods so you may not be totally safe in your nice neighborhood and in your nice home.

My shooting took place in an area of high-priced condos situated on one of the nicest golf courses in our area. Whooda ever thunk that it would happen in that area. Just think if you would have come out of your house to take your garbage cans out to the curb at the same time a shooting situation took place and the bad guys decided they wanted to take refuge in your house. What are you gonna do, hit 'em with a garbage can lid?

While it's true most shootings take place in a rundown area but are you willing to bet your life and the lives of your family it won't happen on your street?

I'm not.

 

[JHornsby3]

A home invasion robbery can happen anywhere. And if the invader knows they can overpower an elderly man AGAIN they will. Fourth time. And it will be the last time. And after the judge sentenced me, he asked me if I had learned anything. I told him I learned the local law is corrupt and knowingly lie and that the next time he enters my father's home, he will be dropped where he stands instead of NOT taking his life. He actually smiled when I finished. He knew the jury was stacked against me and he knew they all lied to get an outcome they wanted.

Never a problem before in my life. And nothing since. I have already said more than I should. I'm done with this subject.

 

[boatman37]

Back about Feb 2007ish we were sitting here around lunchtime on a Sunday afternoon. My son used to race karts and would sometimes go downstairs to the garage to clean it, etc. Wife heard a noise in the garage and asked me what he was doing. I yelled for him and he came out of his room. I went downstairs in my socks and opened the man door from my basement into the garage. Didn't see or hear anything so went to turn around and saw a shadow through the side door. Walked over and there was a guy standing there looking in the window of the steel insulated man door. I asked him what he needed and he asked where Monica was. I have no idea who Monica is but when I told him that he started getting agitated and louder. My 12 year old son had come down and I told him to grab my shoes. I grabbed my phone and dialed 9-1-1 as he had started beating on the door. I identified myself a a State Constable and he said something like 'oh, shit' and turned and left. My son never came back with my shoes so I went up and grabbed my shoes, gun and badge (had it hooked to a chain around my neck). Went outside and followed his footprints to the alley and that was it. Had mentioned to my wife when I grabbed my shoes what he said. She was on the phone with her friend whose husband was a cop. He told her there was a Monica that they had issues with living at a specific address. So I see the local police come down the alley and I gave him the address and jumped in my Crown Vic. We get there and see the guy sitting on a couch inside a garage. They cuff him and I hold my badge up in front of his face and told him next time he wants to kick in a door he better know whose door it is. Fast forward to the hearing and the judge orders him to pay for the door (he was beating it with a shovel and broke the plastic trim around the windows). Judge then told him he was lucky he didn't get carried out in a body bag. Turns out he was a friends nephew. The friend told me he was so strung out on drugs that his nephew thought he was at his house (and our houses look nothing alike and are close to a mile away from each other). Thankfully my gun never came out of my holster and everything was fine but had he got in with that shovel in his hand, who knows.

 

[El Capitan]

I’ve changed my mind.
I’m getting my CCW and G.

I’m testing a Sig this weekend.
My blade will now be the backup.

So I guess it’s true these things come in three’s.

 

[Ididntdoit]

Just be prepared for your life to change.....and think of your social media posts and how you conduct yourself in public NOW

This is a case that briefly made national news, but was a big story locally

A former employee of mine (he was not my employee when this happened) was sleeping in his home at 1:00pm (he worked nights). His wife woke him up and told him someone was trying to break in (his two kids were also in the house) He did everything "right" - tried to communicate with the people banging on the door, called 911.....the situation escalated when the person outside hit the door so hard, a pane of glass broke - He fired through the door and killed a drunk 15yo kid that thought he was harassing a friend (went to the wrong house)

He was arrested, jailed and charged with murder - eventually he was tried for manslaughter and was acquitted - now he and his wife are facing a civil wrongful death trial - they have lost EVERYTHING and they were NEVER in danger - and he has to live with killing an innocent kid.

In his criminal trial, his "vocal" "pro gun rights" social media posts were used against him, and are undoubtedly a factor in the civil case as well - painting him as an irresponsible "gun nut" will likely improve the family's award....So its not only what you do AFTER such an incident, bur BEFORE as well

 

[blaster]

Just be prepared for your life to change.....and think of your social media posts and how you conduct yourself in public NOW

This is a case that briefly made national news, but was a big story locally

A former employee of mine (he was not my employee when this happened) was sleeping in his home at 1:00pm (he worked nights). His wife woke him up and told him someone was trying to break in (his two kids were also in the house) He did everything "right" - tried to communicate with the people banging on the door, called 911.....the situation escalated when the person outside hit the door so hard, a pane of glass broke - He fired through the door and killed a drunk 15yo kid that thought he was harassing a friend (went to the wrong house)

He was arrested, jailed and charged with murder - eventually he was tried for manslaughter and was acquitted - now he and his wife are facing a civil wrongful death trial - they have lost EVERYTHING and they were NEVER in danger - and he has to live with killing an innocent kid.

In his criminal trial, his "vocal" "pro gun rights" social media posts were used against him, and are undoubtedly a factor in the civil case as well - painting him as an irresponsible "gun nut" will likely improve the family's award....So its not only what you do AFTER such an incident, bur BEFORE as well

His fault for not knowing what or who he was shooting at.

Had he waited for the assailant to gain entry the situation would have been perceived much differently. Had he seen it was a drunk kid he likely would have made a different decision. Had the drunk kid been staring down the barrel of a gun he likely would have run.

This is a tragedy and could have been avoided with proper training and understanding of the law.