So,,, how's this "Change" thing going for everybody??

[JediJD]

Awesome! Im glad political affiliation is more important than the work someone does within a company. It is also a HUGE lawsuit waiting to happen.

I truly hope that letter is just a joke.

BillandAmy...with genuine cordiality and respect...you are simply wrong (unless it is a public sector employer). The law is pretty clear that a private employer can fire someone based on their political speech even when that political speech does not affect the terms and conditions of employment. A public employer would be prevented from firing someone based on political speech (because that would constitute the government itself suppressing free speech) although there are exceptions for patronage.

 

[billandamy]

BillandAmy...with genuine cordiality and respect...you are simply wrong (unless it is a public sector employer). The law is pretty clear that a private employer can fire someone based on their political speech even when that political speech does not affect the terms and conditions of employment. A public employer would be prevented from firing someone based on political speech (because that would constitute the government itself suppressing free speech) although there are exceptions for patronage.

You cannot fire an employee for political speech, that is nonsense. A decent attorney would be ALL over that lawsuit and most likely win. Ill ask around to be sure, but I cannot see how in America, the land "supposedly" of free speech, especially regarding the freedom of choosing a representative, you could be terminated.

Put it this way, I wouldnt dare put this to a test with my own company (or when we owned the company).

 

[ChuckW]

But you can "lay them off" without exposing any of you biases to them, and then just wait 60 days until you refill that position.

 

[JediJD]

You cannot fire an employee for political speech, that is nonsense. A decent attorney would be ALL over that lawsuit and most likely win. Ill ask around to be sure, but I cannot see how in America, the land "supposedly" of free speech, especially regarding the freedom of choosing a representative, you could be terminated.

Put it this way, I wouldnt dare put this to a test with my own company (or when we owned the company).

I am an attorney and former judge. This wasn't a debate topic, it was information to correct a posted misapprehension. I assure you that you are incorrect.

 

[billandamy]

So far, two attorney friends have responded, 50/50 right now:

"Political belief is not a standard of discrimination like gender,
religion or race so I don't think there is any recourse."

and....

"While not specifically a standard of discrimination, being terminated for such a reason does open the possibility of a winnable lawsuit."

 

[billandamy]

I am an attorney and former judge. This wasn't a debate topic, it was information to correct a posted misapprehension. I assure you that you are incorrect.

I cant believe I am hearing from an attorney that doesnt believe ANYTHING is debatable in a court of law :lol:

 

[billandamy]

But you can "lay them off" without exposing any of you biases to them, and then just wait 60 days until you refill that position.

Exactly, and there is written proof of the reason people were terminated. I am specifically referring to a case that would revolve around a letter explaining the termination.

Verbally telling someone is most likely unprovable, but a letter stating? Come on.

 

[billandamy]

A third attorney friend has chimed in:

"In CT, generally, employees can be fired at will. However, if the below was explicitly used as the reason for termination, there is probably an issue related to freedom of speech, political beliefs, let alone the bad press that could result if this was made public.

I would suggest consulting a labor/employment attorney if they really want to fight the termination."

And of course, the humor began in the emails:

"They shouldn't be worried, the government will take care of them now."

"illegal on many levels but tough to prove.......i'm not an attorney, but i play one in the locker room. p"

 

[STIHLBOLTS]

That is what it boils down to, with Georgia being a right to work state the employers, ie me can terminate and I don't have to give any reason. I have had my folks for a long time and I weeded out the Carter, Ford, Clinton, Obama supporters long time ago. All it took was one question on their application.

"Where do you keep your hand gun".
a. In a drawer
b. Under your pillow
c. In your truck
d. Non of the above

I never hired anyone that answered one of those questions wrong. :wink:

 

[Turtlesboat]

just look at what happened to the Chrysler dealerships. 798 dealers closed based on pretty good evidence that it was because of political affiliation.

 

[chuck1]

What is it they say about lawyers. This is at least two at on every case and only one side wins. (Grin)

Back on the topic, I'm still waiting for the change to happen. Second/Vacations homes have not started selling again. I have seen a slight up tick in lookers!!

 

[JediJD]

So far, two attorney friends have responded, 50/50 right now:

"Political belief is not a standard of discrimination like gender,
religion or race so I don't think there is any recourse."

and....

"While not specifically a standard of discrimination, being terminated for such a reason does open the possibility of a winnable lawsuit."

The first was a statement of fact. The second was a waffle. Everything you do in America opens the possibility of a winnable lawsuit and that, in and of itself, is another topic. You posited that firing someone for political beliefs was illegal. It simply isn't. What I was trying to do was slow the propogation of inaccurate information...it was not intended to denigrate or demean you in any way. I have every reason, as a fellow boater, to accord you the highest levels of courtesy and respect, and do so.

 

[billandamy]

The first was a statement of fact. The second was a waffle. Everything you do in America opens the possibility of a winnable lawsuit and that, in and of itself, is another topic. You posited that firing someone for political beliefs was illegal. It simply isn't. What I was trying to do was slow the propogation of inaccurate information...it was not intended to denigrate or demean you in any way. I have every reason, as a fellow boater, to accord you the highest levels of courtesy and respect, and do so.

I was saying based on a letter, the specific letter posted, that an employee has a ground to file and possibly, and imo likey, win a lawsuit. The letter, to me, is the basis of my argument.

You do not have to accord me any respect just because we both own boats, by the way :smt001 But either way, I did not even fathom taking what you said (or will say in the future) as anything demeaning or disrespectful in any way, shape or form.

 

[billandamy]

Best, and most expected response from an attorney regarding this letter and situation:

"My answer depends on who is paying me. "

:lol:

and another gem:

"I am not an attorney.

I am a physician.

So this is just my own jackass liberal socialist opinion.

Sounds illegal.

What next? Firing Andros because he's an Islanders fan?"

 

[Fishnut]

After taking a 20% paycut for the past year and no new work to pursue, my company is actually seeing proposal requests for architectural/engineering services taking off like a bat out of hell. Most of the requests are from the Feds, but we're also seeing a lot of requests from local municipalities. Even some of our private sector clients are starting to open up. Most of this is attributable to the Recovery and Reinvestment Act passed by Congress.

We've been selected for a couple of projects, so I get to go back to full salary and finally afford gas for the boat just in time!! :smt038

And you are happy about being a socialist? Do you have any idea what the cost is going to be to your children to pay for you to have this federal work? I know, you don't have a clue. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Fishnut]

The first was a statement of fact. The second was a waffle. Everything you do in America opens the possibility of a winnable lawsuit and that, in and of itself, is another topic. You posited that firing someone for political beliefs was illegal. It simply isn't. What I was trying to do was slow the propogation of inaccurate information...it was not intended to denigrate or demean you in any way. I have every reason, as a fellow boater, to accord you the highest levels of courtesy and respect, and do so.

What is assumed is that the employees are employees-at-will (and not subject to an employment contract or union agreement). The employer can terminate them for any or no reason. The employer can only get in trouble if he unlawfully discriminates against an employee. The employer can get in trouble for discriminating against an employee that is part of a protected class. For instances, if the employer sent out a memo that said all Jews are being layed off, the employees would potentially have a claim for discrimination based on their national origin or race.

Under the equal protection clause of our constitution, you can not discriminate against certain protected classes of individuals. In this case, the fact that the employer terminates individuals with Obama bumper stickers does not make them a protected class. However, he runs the risk that if all of the employees with Obama bumper stickers were of one race and non Obama bumper sticker employees were of another race of a discrimination suit. So it can get tricky if his employment action has the effect of discriminating against a protected class.

Then there is the issue of free speech. I suppose it can be argued that having a political bumper sticker can be considered a form of free speech and that if you terminate me because of it then you have violated my constututional rights. I wouldn't want to bet my life on it but the employer could end up spending some serious money defending this claim.

Third, an individual state may have expanded employee rights and additional protected classes. I think the liberal idiots in Michigan adopted a dozen additional protected classes such as weight, height, the list goes on. So you would have to check with your state statute too to determine whether the employer is safe.

While the post was funny and good political mud slinging, in reality the employer would call the luck 6 in and say here's your check and have a nice life. :thumbsup:

 

[Scottzzzy]

That is what it boils down to, with Georgia being a right to work state the employers, ie me can terminate and I don't have to give any reason. I have had my folks for a long time and I weeded out the Carter, Ford, Clinton, Obama supporters long time ago. All it took was one question on their application.

"Where do you keep your hand gun".
a. In a drawer
b. Under your pillow
c. In your truck
d. Non of the above

I never hired anyone that answered one of those questions wrong. :wink:

THIS I MUST REMEMBER!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Very funny!

 

[geriksen]

Change ... Change for change sake is simply dumb and was inspired by a leftist media and restless youth who haven't a clue about making things work because WE their parents gave them a pampered life.

Te change people voted for is not the change they are getting, not by a long shot. Troops to be in Iraq for 10 more years, troop build up in Afganistan, NK going nutso, Venezeula and Bolivia going nutso, Congress assaulting every aspect of our constitutionaly guarranteed freedoms with radical bills working through the processes. Yes, free speech, right of assembly, right for political dissent, right to own fire arms and the list goes on and on including an outright assualt on States rights.

Change to socialism and away from capitialism, tax away all the wealth in the land, alienate our friends, and encourage our nations enemies and detractors, nationalize our largest businesses and strip away our bill of rights ... Yup thats Change alright.

Well stated!

 

[Skeetobite]

All employment in America is deemed "at will" and can be terminated by the employer or employee, with or without cause and with or without notice. Unless that employment is protected under a collective bargaining agreement (Union) or an employment contract.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 clearly details protected classes. Your political affiliation is not on the list. Nor is your choice of automobile brand, boat brand, community activism, etc.

Over the past 20 years I've employed a couple of thousand employees and I own a nationwide employement site that puts around 100,000 people to work each year (even this year).

Even a cursory search for case law (try findlaw.com) on this subject will answer any questions anyone has on this matter. You can sue for just about any reason, but this one wouldn't make it past the first court date, that is if you can find an attorney who would even make the filing for you.

 

[JediJD]

Thank you.