Seven people unaccounted for after fire destroys 35 boats in AL

[RBB]

Horrible situation, sorry for the family’s
That has lost loved ones.
Our boat is in a covered slip in a older
Marina, makes you wonder.
Who would bare the responsibility for the fire?

 

[dwna1a]

Newer covered slips have burn out panels in the roof over each slip. Basically to vent the heat up and away. Still it only buys the next boat a limited amount of time.

I'm very sorry to all the families of those that were lost. I pray that none of our SeaRay members were lost

 

[dwna1a]

Horrible situation, sorry for the family’s
That has lost loved ones.
Our boat is in a covered slip in a older
Marina, makes you wonder.
Who would bare the responsibility for the fire?

This is why you have insurance, they pay you and then they fight to get their funds back. Sounds cold and I'm sorry but,N that's the way it is

 

[DWABoat]

Terrible tragedy. We train to respond to these incidents regularly. However, response times on the water are always difficult as opposed to land. The relatively low frequency of these incidents, compared to land based fires/crashes, won’t justify 24-hr standby fireboat teams anywhere but the busiest places, like say Miami.

If you dock at an older marina, this is a good reminder to make a visual inspection of the wiring, location/number/condition of fire extinguishers, and potential evacuation plans if a boat caught fire. Insist anything looking old, worn, or inadequate be corrected, even if you happen to give a tip to the local fire department to come do a “random” inspection.

 

[DWABoat]

Oh..I need to mention the national electrical codes relating to marina wiring has changed significantly in the last couple of years (2017). This change relates to GFI issues.

From my understanding, the changes are not retro-actively required, however, that does not mean the marina cannot make the changes voluntarily. Many electricians are not aware of the changes. I am no electrician, but I am told these GFI improvements can greatly increase the safety of your dock.

 

[Kwik]

Oh..I need to mention the national electrical codes relating to marina wiring has changed significantly in the last couple of years (2017). This change relates to GFI issues.

From my understanding, the changes are not retro-actively required, however, that does not mean the marina cannot make the changes voluntarily. Many electricians are not aware of the changes. I am no electrician, but I am told these GFI improvements can greatly increase the safety of your dock.

A GFCI would be hard pressed to make a difference in a fire. It would have to burn a wire in two before responding. The GFCI breakers/outlets are for shock hazards. An AFCI would likely catch a situation like this. But, last I read, they are not required by code. They are notorious for false trips and being in non-working order straight out of the box.

 

[b_arrington]

A GFCI would be hard pressed to make a difference in a fire. It would have to burn a wire in two before responding. The GFCI breakers/outlets are for shock hazards. An AFCI would likely catch a situation like this. But, last I read, they are not required by code. They are notorious for false trips and being in non-working order straight out of the box.

Arc fault breakers suck. They are now required by code in Connecticut, for homes anyway. My brother in-law reno’d a house and I was helping him do some work. None of our power tools (chop saws, jigsaws, circular saws) would work more than 5-6 seconds under load. The breakers kept tripping, even on 20 amp circuits. His electrician said it was due to the arc fault breakers. Happens all the time and they are a major PITA, both for customers and electricians. His microwave tripped them too.

I don’t know the exact purpose of arc fault breakers but they seem to be overly sensitive to tripping under normal use.

 

[Kwik]

Arc fault breakers suck. They are now required by code in Connecticut, for homes anyway. My brother in-law reno’d a house and I was helping him do some work. None of our power tools (chop saws, jigsaws, circular saws) would work more than 5-6 seconds under load. The breakers kept tripping, even on 20 amp circuits. His electrician said it was due to the arc fault breakers. Happens all the time and they are a major PITA, both for customers and electricians. His microwave tripped them too.

I don’t know the exact purpose of arc fault breakers but they seem to be overly sensitive to tripping under normal use.

Agreed. They were intended to become mandatory in bedrooms only for risk of fire while people are sleeping. But, I guess some have pushed them passed their intent. The intention behind it is sound. However, real world applications aren't working. I'm surprised Connecticut is requiring them. Last discussion I read on Mike Holt's forum was that they were going to be removed from the NEC because of cost, failure rate and false trips. The only time I tried to install them for a customer I had to buy five to get the three bedrooms protected. Lowe's wouldn't take to two bad ones back. So, I had to eat a large unnecessary cost. Swore I wouldn't install another. I have long since quit doing any residential work. So, perhaps, I lost track of some of the code specific to residential.

 

[DWABoat]

Certainly not my area of expertise.
I thought the Ground Fault (GFI) will detect imbalances in flow. Considering this...if a poorly wired and hazardous boat with voltage leaking into the water, etc, the imbalanced return voltage would trip the GFI. That detection would expose the poorly wired boat thereby reducing a fire hazard of the boat itself.
At least this is how it was explained to me. Please correct me if I were misinformed.

 

[Kwik]

Certainly not my area of expertise.
I thought the Ground Fault (GFI) will detect imbalances in flow. Considering this...if a poorly wired and hazardous boat with voltage leaking into the water, etc, the imbalanced return voltage would trip the GFI. That detection would expose the poorly wired boat thereby reducing a fire hazard of the boat itself.
At least this is how it was explained to me. Please correct me if I were misinformed.

I see what you are saying. But, it is just what it says. It detects current in the ground wire and breaks the circuit on the ungrounded current carrying conductor. A electrical fire is usually from a large resistance causing heat around flammable material. Say a poor connection near linens or gas. It doesn't have to be from "hot" to "ground". And most times it isn't.

 

[Gimme Time]

A couple of years ago a husband & wife up steam from us died in a covered boat house fire that burn about 30 boats which all sank. We followed the story for quite sometime and it was during the heating season. Couple were living on board while they were renovating their house.

Obviously this concerns lots of people as we too are under a covered roof with three side walls with nine other boats on are dock. 50’ off our bow is another ten slips just like ours. Old wooden facilities with old electrical services.

As a result of that fire and deaths I took action to improve our safety as we spend over 250 nights a year aboard and many in our slip amongst many friends. What & how can we improve our safety situation as even in uncovered docks asleep at night your risk & response time increases.

I went out and bought 14 Combination Fire Smoke Ionization wireless detectors. I programmed each to wirelessly connect with the others to relay an alarm. Each boat on our dock installed one within the boat and four where mounted about 4’ below the roof structure every other 2+- boats. We tested them and they would wake up just about everyone in the marina complex.

A couple of notes. #1 They are not rated for exterior use and everyone understood that. #2 We tested them basically every month for the most part. #3 I recommended the four in the boat house be replaced each year or earlier if anyone of them failed. Does this take care of the issue, No but dam site better than doing nothing. I should also note I have three on my boat. 1 in engine room, 1 in main area inside the boat & 1 on the bridge of the boat. I’ve got engine room. I’ve got engine room camera on the chart plotter but wanted faster alarming where possible.

This is not a fix all but helps make me sleep better at night & pretty inexpensive process. I want as much notice as I can get to get everyone off the boat as safely as possible. The boat is replaceable not family & friends. Sorry this was so long but if it helps save any of us or anyone whom sets something up like this it’s more than worth the time & read.

 

[techmitch]

A couple of years ago a husband & wife up steam from us died in a covered boat house fire that burn about 30 boats which all sank. We followed the story for quite sometime and it was during the heating season. Couple were living on board while they were renovating their house.

Obviously this concerns lots of people as we too are under a covered roof with three side walls with nine other boats on are dock. 50’ off our bow is another ten slips just like ours. Old wooden facilities with old electrical services.

As a result of that fire and deaths I took action to improve our safety as we spend over 250 nights a year aboard and many in our slip amongst many friends. What & how can we improve our safety situation as even in uncovered docks asleep at night your risk & response time increases.

I went out and bought 14 Combination Fire Smoke Ionization wireless detectors. I programmed each to wirelessly connect with the others to relay an alarm. Each boat on our dock installed one within the boat and four where mounted about 4’ below the roof structure every other 2+- boats. We tested them and they would wake up just about everyone in the marina complex.

A couple of notes. #1 They are not rated for exterior use and everyone understood that. #2 We tested them basically every month for the most part. #3 I recommended the four in the boat house be replaced each year or earlier if anyone of them failed. Does this take care of the issue, No but dam site better than doing nothing. I should also note I have three on my boat. 1 in engine room, 1 in main area inside the boat & 1 on the bridge of the boat. I’ve got engine room. I’ve got engine room camera on the chart plotter but wanted faster alarming where possible.

This is not a fix all but helps make me sleep better at night & pretty inexpensive process. I want as much notice as I can get to get everyone off the boat as safely as possible. The boat is replaceable not family & friends. Sorry this was so long but if it helps save any of us or anyone whom sets something up like this it’s more than worth the time & read.

Great post John, is the Admiral still Writing/Blogging? Forgot the link/blog name.

 

[DWABoat]

I see what you are saying. But, it is just what it says. It detects current in the ground wire and breaks the circuit on the ungrounded current carrying conductor. A electrical fire is usually from a large resistance causing heat around flammable material. Say a poor connection near linens or gas. It doesn't have to be from "hot" to "ground". And most times it isn't.

So the GFI’s will be more on the prevention side of fire safety by just identifying some, not all, bad boats. I think many, many marina fires start on a boat and spread.
The arc circuitry (Connecticut just required) you described is something that is supposed to stop a problem as it is happening, although questionable in effectiveness.
I’m learning here.
From this event, everyone in a marina should do a good review of their place and look for obvious problems, at the least.

 

[mwph]

This happened about 10 or 12 miles upstream from my marina. The official cause will not be released for quite some time, but as I have told others, I'm betting on an unapproved bilge heater. Authorities claim they have identified the boat as the source of the fire & have moved it to a secure location for further investigation.

The saddest part of the story is that 6 of the victims were from the same family. Mom & 4 kids died, dad was injured but survived.

In this region of the country, we don't need to winterize boats that are kept in the water year round. A bilge heater is a good idea & I have used one for about 10 years now. I usually keep it in from Christmas until March. I'd bet it seldom kicks on. It just doesn't stay cold enough for long enough here in North Alabama.

It amazes me how many boat owners have no idea about the dangers of using non approved devices in their bilge. I won't go in to details because we have all heard the horror stories, but from huge light bulbs to household space heaters on a 15' extension cord, I've seen it all.