Raw water pump impeller---89 300 Weekender---454 inboards

[ks65609]

I would like to request information regarding replacing raw water impellers on our 89 300 Weekender with 454 direct drive inboards

It looks to me that the entire belt driven pump should be removed in order to replace the impeller, however before I start tearing things apart I am hoping someone may be able to give me some good advice. It look like removing two of the three batteries would create enough space to access the port engine however have not looked at the starboard as of yet.

If anyone has tackled this project I would sure appreciate your input.

Thanks
Ken

 

[No Lines]

I've got a little different setup then you do since I've got v-drives, but I have to remove the entire pump in order to get to the impeller. After doing it a few times, it's not a big deal anymore, just takes some time.

 

[ks65609]

I've got a little different setup then you do since I've got v-drives, but I have to remove the entire pump in order to get to the impeller. After doing it a few times, it's not a big deal anymore, just takes some time.

Thanks for your advice. It appeared to me the pump should be removed as well but I wanted to be sure. Do you have a regular schedule of changing the impellers or some other indicator as to when they require service ? All previous boats have been i/o and I paid close attention to engine temp. Now in addition, I check the water flow from the exhausts on start up and prior to heading out, as well as the exhaust vapour trail when cruising.

I would be interested in your cruising speed as compared to engine rpm if you may be willing to share those numbers.

Thanks
Ken

 

[No Lines]

Well, I've only had the boat for a little over a year. It was a repo and I had no idea what maintenance was done, or wasn't done, to it prior to me owning it so I addressed the primary maintenance items when I got it and spent some time running it to figure out what other maintenance needed to be done. I plan on changing impellers every 1 to 1 1/2 years. As far as I'm concerned, it's cheap insurance. Other than a few hours of my time invested, the cost is nominal compared to what can happen if the impellers fail.

As far as rpm's vs speed, I was out this weekend and was at about 24mph at 3,400 rpm. That's with full gas tanks (200 gallons), 1/2 a tank of freshwater (20 gallons), and 6 people onboard. I'd say the chop was around 1.5 - 2 feet, nothing major.

 

[ks65609]

Well, I've only had the boat for a little over a year. It was a repo and I had no idea what maintenance was done, or wasn't done, to it prior to me owning it so I addressed the primary maintenance items when I got it and spent some time running it to figure out what other maintenance needed to be done. I plan on changing impellers every 1 to 1 1/2 years. As far as I'm concerned, it's cheap insurance. Other than a few hours of my time invested, the cost is nominal compared to what can happen if the impellers fail.



As far as rpm's vs speed, I was out this weekend and was at about 24mph at 3,400 rpm. That's with full gas tanks (200 gallons), 1/2 a tank of freshwater (20 gallons), and 6 people onboard. I'd say the chop was around 1.5 - 2 feet, nothing major.

Certainly agree with your preventative maintenance plans and for sure something I am going to put in place. Our 300 is new to us as well and still very much learning the ropes. With our previous i/o units I kept the bilge dry, not so with the stuffing boxes. Something new to get used to. I have been advised the key is to maintain a drip every 10 to 15 seconds for proper shaft cooling.

Thanks for the numbers. I am getting a bit closer relationship but in similar ranges to yourself so I know I am doing something right. I had full fuel and water but not the personnel and less chop.

Thanks very much
Ken

 

[tmal2]

I would like to request information regarding replacing raw water impellers on our 89 300 Weekender with 454 direct drive inboards

It looks to me that the entire belt driven pump should be removed in order to replace the impeller, however before I start tearing things apart I am hoping someone may be able to give me some good advice. It look like removing two of the three batteries would create enough space to access the port engine however have not looked at the starboard as of yet.

If anyone has tackled this project I would sure appreciate your input.

Thanks
Ken

Ken, just to add to what already been mentioned here, you should not have to take out the top bolt on the water pump. All you have to do is loosen it and lift the pump up and over the bolt head. If you take that bolt out it's a nightmare trying to get it back in. Trust me, I found out the hard way.
I've got the same engines you have in my 34 and know the routine all to well. It's a very tight job but is doable with a little (make that a lot) of patience.

I do recommend getting yourself a set of ratcheting wrenches for that top bolt because you cannot got a socket on it due to the placement of the fresh water pump and you get very little swing with an open end or box end wrench.

I hope this helps

 

[ks65609]

Ken, just to add to what already been mentioned here, you should not have to take out the top bolt on the water pump. All you have to do is loosen it and lift the pump up and over the bolt head. If you take that bolt out it's a nightmare trying to get it back in. Trust me, I found out the hard way.
I've got the same engines you have in my 34 and know the routine all to well. It's a very tight job but is doable with a little (make that a lot) of patience.

I do recommend getting yourself a set of ratcheting wrenches for that top bolt because you cannot got a socket on it due to the placement of the fresh water pump and you get very little swing with an open end or box end wrench.

I hope this helps

Capt. Tim
Thank you very much for your input and advice. I will crawl in and have a closer look so I fully understand your explanation regarding the top bolt, as I am not sure if loosening this bolt allows the pump to swing upwards to allow room to change the impeller or remove the pump entirely. Sorry for my ignorance and the dumb questions. We are two hours away from where our boat is slipped so I am not able to quickly follow your instructions.

I very much appreciate the help.
Thanks
Ken
ps I quite like the visibility your canvas design allows particularly if you are standing while at the helm.

 

[tmal2]

Capt. Tim
Thank you very much for your input and advice. I will crawl in and have a closer look so I fully understand your explanation regarding the top bolt, as I am not sure if loosening this bolt allows the pump to swing upwards to allow room to change the impeller or remove the pump entirely. Sorry for my ignorance and the dumb questions. We are two hours away from where our boat is slipped so I am not able to quickly follow your instructions.

I very much appreciate the help.
Thanks
Ken
ps I quite like the visibility your canvas design allows particularly if you are standing while at the helm.

Ken, below is a picture of the mounting bracket you should have on your raw water pump. The pump itself mounts to this bracket which mounts to the engine. As you can see, the hole on the top of the bracket has an opening which will go over the bolt head once it's loosened. Remove the bolt below it and you should be able to pull the pump assembly straight up then bring it forward so the head of the bolt goes through the wide part of the opening. Just reverse the process to reinstall it.

You will need to remove the entire assembly from the engine (water hoses included) and remove the pump assembly from the mounting bracket to replace the impeller. Also, as you can see from the bolt pattern around the flange there are a few different ways that the pump can mount to the bracket. Once the assembly is removed from the motor I suggest you make some kind of a hash mark or scratch across the edge of the bracket and the pump before removing the pump assembly from the bracket. This will make it much easier for you to remount the pump onto the bracket when you are finished installing the impeller. You'll know exactly which way to line everything back up




Here's a microfische picture of how the pump and bracket go together.


I'm sure this all sounds very confusing but I think you'll understand it better once you see it. It's a pretty straight forward job once the pump is removed from the engine. The reassembly is the challenging part. Just give yourself some time, don't get too frustrated and keep plenty of bandaids around for all the cuts and scrapes you're gonna have on your arms.

Good luck

P.S. I replace my impellers every 2 years. It's a real pain but it beats the alternative of overheating.

P.P.S I cruise at about 22-24 MPH turning about 3000 RPM. With the same engines in your boat I'm guessing you probably do a little better than that since you're 4 feet smaller.

 

[ks65609]

Ken, below is a picture of the mounting bracket you should have on your raw water pump. The pump itself mounts to this bracket which mounts to the engine. As you can see, the hole on the top of the bracket has an opening which will go over the bolt head once it's loosened. Remove the bolt below it and you should be able to pull the pump assembly straight up then bring it forward so the head of the bolt goes through the wide part of the opening. Just reverse the process to reinstall it.

You will need to remove the entire assembly from the engine (water hoses included) and remove the pump assembly from the mounting bracket to replace the impeller. Also, as you can see from the bolt pattern around the flange there are a few different ways that the pump can mount to the bracket. Once the assembly is removed from the motor I suggest you make some kind of a hash mark or scratch across the edge of the bracket and the pump before removing the pump assembly from the bracket. This will make it much easier for you to remount the pump onto the bracket when you are finished installing the impeller. You'll know exactly which way to line everything back up


View attachment 21109

Here's a microfische picture of how the pump and bracket go together.
View attachment 21110

I'm sure this all sounds very confusing but I think you'll understand it better once you see it. It's a pretty straight forward job once the pump is removed from the engine. The reassembly is the challenging part. Just give yourself some time, don't get too frustrated and keep plenty of bandaids around for all the cuts and scrapes you're gonna have on your arms.

Good luck

P.S. I replace my impellers every 2 years. It's a real pain but it beats the alternative of overheating.

P.P.S I cruise at about 22-24 MPH turning about 3000 RPM. With the same engines in your boat I'm guessing you probably do a little better than that since you're 4 feet smaller.

Capt Tim
What more can I say, but thank you very much AGAIN, for taking your time to provide the information and pictures that almost get me to the band aid stage. The bracket looks the same from what I have been able to see so far. Good tip regarding the hash mark !
Are your batteries housed between the engines and if so did you remove one or all ?

The boat has Hurst xms as well with a 1.6 /1 ratio and 16 x 17 three bladed props. I am finding (with two people on board, full fuel and water), and based on the two tachs which at times agree or are a couple of hundred rpm difference, that an engine speed of 2600-2800 rpm will produce a GPS ground speed of 22 to 24 mph. I have also kicked it up to about 3200 rpm for a short distance and the GPS ground speed indicated was 27-28 mph. 3400 rpm produced 31 mph. It sounds like a reasonable relationship as you have suggested so I may be in the ball park with my trim tab settings. I do not have fuel flow meters and not too sure at what rpm and extra 4 barrels are thanking me. I did not notice any significant air intake noise level change at the higher rpm but here again the boat is new to us and many things to pay attention to.

Many thanks
Ken

 

[tmal2]

Capt Tim
What more can I say, but thank you very much AGAIN, for taking your time to provide the information and pictures that almost get me to the band aid stage. The bracket looks the same from what I have been able to see so far. Good tip regarding the hash mark !
Are your batteries housed between the engines and if so did you remove one or all ?

The boat has Hurst xms as well with a 1.6 /1 ratio and 16 x 17 three bladed props. I am finding (with two people on board, full fuel and water), and based on the two tachs which at times agree or are a couple of hundred rpm difference, that an engine speed of 2600-2800 rpm will produce a GPS ground speed of 22 to 24 mph. I have also kicked it up to about 3200 rpm for a short distance and the GPS ground speed indicated was 27-28 mph. 3400 rpm produced 31 mph. It sounds like a reasonable relationship as you have suggested so I may be in the ball park with my trim tab settings. I do not have fuel flow meters and not too sure at what rpm and extra 4 barrels are thanking me. I did not notice any significant air intake noise level change at the higher rpm but here again the boat is new to us and many things to pay attention to.

Many thanks
Ken

You're more than welcome Ken. Glad I can help. Here's one more picture of what the bracket looks like mounted on an engine. This is an aftermarket part that is slightly different from the OEM one but you'll get the idea. You can see why it's impossible to get a socket on that top bolt and the OEM bracket makes it very difficult to loosen the top bolt due to very, very limited travel with a box end or open end wrench. Get a ratcheting wrench set and you'll save yourself a lot of time and aggravation.

My batteries are down the middle but the are below the level of the stringers so they are not in the way. I've got a friend with the same boat as yours except he's got small blocks. He's got a lot more access to his pumps that I do. I've never seen a 30 with big blocks so I can't picture how tough yours will be to get done.

Good luck with the project. Keep me updated

 

[ks65609]

You're more than welcome Ken. Glad I can help. Here's one more picture of what the bracket looks like mounted on an engine. This is an aftermarket part that is slightly different from the OEM one but you'll get the idea. You can see why it's impossible to get a socket on that top bolt and the OEM bracket makes it very difficult to loosen the top bolt due to very, very limited travel with a box end or open end wrench. Get a ratcheting wrench set and you'll save yourself a lot of time and aggravation.

My batteries are down the middle but the are below the level of the stringers so they are not in the way. I've got a friend with the same boat as yours except he's got small blocks. He's got a lot more access to his pumps that I do. I've never seen a 30 with big blocks so I can't picture how tough yours will be to get done.

Good luck with the project. Keep me updated

Capt Tim.
Well now you have done it. You have made a new friend for life. Excellent photo that answers all the questions.
With the big blocks, there does not appear to be even enough room between them to simply lift one battery out vertically and I really do not want to remove all three. I will have to squeeze in and take a closer look, hoping not to become a permanent fixture in the engine bay.
I did read a comment elsewhere in the forum strongly recommending having a backup person present to extricate you in the event of a mishap. Good advice !
The 7.4s seem to be a rare option in this boat. Of all I have reviewed on the internet I have found only one or two. It has been suggested to me the big blocks provide more torque and do not work as hard to generate the same performance results as say the 5.7s, and I suppose that does make some sense, however I believe operating expenses are a direct result of how you drive and care for the boat. The automatic reaction I get from everyone is WOW. That must be wicked on fuel.


My younger days saw the big three come out with their " factory hot rods ", and although I am past qualifying for a mid-life crisis, big engines still get my adrenalin going.


Thank you very much Ken

 

[tmal2]

Capt Tim.
Well now you have done it. You have made a new friend for life. Excellent photo that answers all the questions.
With the big blocks, there does not appear to be even enough room between them to simply lift one battery out vertically and I really do not want to remove all three. I will have to squeeze in and take a closer look, hoping not to become a permanent fixture in the engine bay.
I did read a comment elsewhere in the forum strongly recommending having a backup person present to extricate you in the event of a mishap. Good advice !
The 7.4s seem to be a rare option in this boat. Of all I have reviewed on the internet I have found only one or two. It has been suggested to me the big blocks provide more torque and do not work as hard to generate the same performance results as say the 5.7s, and I suppose that does make some sense, however I believe operating expenses are a direct result of how you drive and care for the boat. The automatic reaction I get from everyone is WOW. That must be wicked on fuel.


My younger days saw the big three come out with their " factory hot rods ", and although I am past qualifying for a mid-life crisis, big engines still get my adrenalin going.


Thank you very much Ken

My pleasure Ken, Glad I can help. There is one other thing I forgot to mention. You can't see it in the picture above but the alternator bracket comes from the opposite side of the motor, under the crank pulleys and connects to the water pump bracket. The easiest way to get it out is to remove the bolt on the alternator (the one you would loosen to adjust the alternator belt) and take the entire alternator bracket off with the water pump and pump bracket. It would be almost impossible to do it any other way.

You can see what I'm talking about in this picture. It's part #34

 

[ks65609]

My pleasure Ken, Glad I can help. There is one other thing I forgot to mention. You can't see it in the picture above but the alternator bracket comes from the opposite side of the motor, under the crank pulleys and connects to the water pump bracket. The easiest way to get it out is to remove the bolt on the alternator (the one you would loosen to adjust the alternator belt) and take the entire alternator bracket off with the water pump and pump bracket. It would be almost impossible to do it any other way.

You can see what I'm talking about in this picture. It's part #34

Capt Tim
I can see why my level of frustration could possibly have been triggered, when after not being able to move the pump after removing the bolts and not being able to see what was still holding it in place.
You have either created or have a very good source of technical illustrations including photos that have completely answered my questions (once I get squeezed in).
Am I getting greedy if I was to ask if you have similar information regarding the actual impeller replacement. I have not tried to source parts as of yet.

Thank you
Ken

 

[tmal2]

Capt Tim
I can see why my level of frustration could possibly have been triggered, when after not being able to move the pump after removing the bolts and not being able to see what was still holding it in place.
You have either created or have a very good source of technical illustrations including photos that have completely answered my questions (once I get squeezed in).
Am I getting greedy if I was to ask if you have similar information regarding the actual impeller replacement. I have not tried to source parts as of yet.

Thank you
Ken

Ken, I just look these pictures up on the internet. It's pretty easy if you know what you're looking for. :smt024 :grin:.

You don't want to replace just the impeller. You're gonna want to replace the housing along with it. You can buy everything you'll need as a kit.
If you're able to remove the pump from the engine you'll have no problem figuring out how to rebuild the pump. It's very simple. Just analyze it a little and you'll see exactly how it comes apart. The toughest part of reassembling the pump is lining the housing/pump on the mounting bracket (it will fit on the bracket several ways but only one is right) but if you've made has marks like I suggest earlier you'll have no problems.

 

[rondds]

easiest way to get it out is to remove the bolt on the alternator (the one you would loosen to adjust the alternator belt) and take the entire alternator bracket off with the water pump and pump bracket.

That's exactly what I do. Once you're contorted in there, it's fairly simple and quick to get the whole thing off. The top bolt of the bracket is tucked in pretty tightly behind the hose that exits the circulator pump. I've taken that hose off to get better access to that bolt but it makes a MESS if you're fresh water cooled (dumps a LOT of coolant). Tricky to get the bolt out with the hose in place, but do-able - harder to get it back IN and very easy to drop the thing into the chamber of lost parts.

I replace the housing every other time, rather than every time.

You may also want to mark the bolts that hold the housing together before removing them. Not sure about your assembly, but on mine some are different lengths. Probably on Tmal's too.

 

[ks65609]

Ken, I just look these pictures up on the internet. It's pretty easy if you know what you're looking for. :smt024 :grin:.

You don't want to replace just the impeller. You're gonna want to replace the housing along with it. You can buy everything you'll need as a kit.
If you're able to remove the pump from the engine you'll have no problem figuring out how to rebuild the pump. It's very simple. Just analyze it a little and you'll see exactly how it comes apart. The toughest part of reassembling the pump is lining the housing/pump on the mounting bracket (it will fit on the bracket several ways but only one is right) but if you've made has marks like I suggest earlier you'll have no problems.

Thanks
I have found one site Boats.net with very similar illustrations as yours, however I need to find the engine serial numbers as they are no longer visible on the spark arrestor covers.
On to the next step
Ken

 

[ks65609]

That's exactly what I do. Once you're contorted in there, it's fairly simple and quick to get the whole thing off. The top bolt of the bracket is tucked in pretty tightly behind the hose that exits the circulator pump. I've taken that hose off to get better access to that bolt but it makes a MESS if you're fresh water cooled (dumps a LOT of coolant). Tricky to get the bolt out with the hose in place, but do-able - harder to get it back IN and very easy to drop the thing into the chamber of lost parts.

I replace the housing every other time, rather than every time.

You may also want to mark the bolts that hold the housing together before removing them. Not sure about your assembly, but on mine some are different lengths. Probably on Tmal's too.

rondds

Thank you very much for your additional input and help. I will take note of the additional identification you have suggested as well.

I will need to check back through Tmal's posts as now I am not sure if he recommended removing the entire pump assembly from the boat to perform the rebuild or is this just a completely ridiculous question based on the space available to do anything.

Thanks
Ken

 

[tmal2]

rondds

Thank you very much for your additional input and help. I will take note of the additional identification you have suggested as well.

I will need to check back through Tmal's posts as now I am not sure if he recommended removing the entire pump assembly from the boat to perform the rebuild or is this just a completely ridiculous question based on the space available to do anything.

Thanks
Ken

Ken, remove the pump from the boat. You'll never be able to rebuild the pump while it's still on the motor.

 

[rondds]

Yes, remove it! Here's how I did it. Drape the engine with a big blanket or piece of rug and climb aboard. Get the hose clamps off the intake/output which is under the engine. Don't use a screwdriver - use a socket on a screwdriver handle - 5/16"

Take note of which is which - ie: which nozzle and which hose is IN and which is OUT. The pump housing tells you by denoting for LH or RH engines. You should have LH engines. I also wrote on the housing IN and OUT in whiteout.

Remove the bracket from the alternator, as tmal explained. Remove the two bolts on the front end. There's not enough adjustment in the adjustment swing to remove the belt until this point - I would also suggest you replace the belts while you've got all this stuff off.

Go sit somewhere comfortable and mark the housing and bracket so it lines back up correctly. Pull it all apart, shove the impeller in with some dish soap - some use KY jelly - depends how kinky you are. Reassemble and assume the position in the ER. Have all your wrenches handy - once you're in there you don't want to come out.

You'll be cussing up a storm, you'll get all sorts of small cuts and abrasions, and the first one will take you 3x as long as the second one. All in all, not that bad a job.

 

[ks65609]

Ken, remove the pump from the boat. You'll never be able to rebuild the pump while it's still on the motor.

I should have clarified my statement as I understood that the pump had to be removed from the engine however was unsure of the pump disassembly aspect. Now I know.

Thanks
Ken