Problems after oil change

[charlg]

The boat was running fine. Last week I changed the oil, oil filters, and fuel filters. After the oil change, I started the port motor and it ran fine. Then I started the starboard motor and it stalled. I started it again and there was a squeal, but I was able to keep it running and the squeal went away and it ran fine. So, I shut them both off.

Sunday, we went to go out. The port motor started and the starboard motor would not. It turns and turns, but won't start. I checked the fuel filter to see if it was full....it was.

Monday, the mechanic shows up and says it's not getting spark. So, he changes the cap, rotor, and module. Now there is a spark and it still won't start. He tested the fuel pressure and said it's reading 0, and I need to buy a fuel pump ($400+ and 6 hours labor).

How can all this happen from an oil change??? It was running fine until then. Now no spark and no fuel pressure????

Should I keep throwing money at this until it starts?

Any suggestions?

 

[ardeprint]

Did you check your oil level. If your oil pump stops working it kills the power to the fuel pump.
1- did you put enough oil
2- did you put too much oil
3- did you use the right oil for your boat
4- did you check to see if you disconnected any of the harnesess to electronics, computer, etc. (it happened to me when I changed plugs one time)

 

[gregkjones]

get a bottle of starting fluid and spray some in the intake and try to start the boat. if it starts, but wont run, that would confirm the engine isnt getting fuel. then the question is why; is the pump toast or is there a power glitch to the pump or kink in the fuel line or some other clog. as stated earlier, check all the harnesses you might have accidently knocked loose while climbing around espeically anything going to the fuel pump. the pump may not be getting power or only be getting intermittant power which would suck to find out after getting a new pump. if the boat still wont start using the starting fluid, then you still have no spark or intermittant spark.

 

[JediJD]

Fuel filter blocked?

 

[skolbe]

Usually issues happen because you lose a prime in the fuel system. Or something get's disconnected. Did you add fuel to the filters when you changed them or did you install them empty?

 

[rcknecht]

I have to prime my fuel filter (fill them with fuel) when I change them... But from what you described it does not sound like that. It think it just a coincidence...

 

[speakrdude]

Will also happen if a fuel suction line is loose. Ask me how I know.

 

[Sea Gull]

You have two problems. For the primary problem I would look at the fuel filters/fuel supply. The second problem is only solved by a total replacement...of that mechanic.

 

[nickysc]

You have two problems. For the primary problem I would look at the fuel filters/fuel supply. The second problem is only solved by a total replacement...of that mechanic.

If this were fb, I would click "Like" (grin)

 

[tbirdvet]

Sounds like fuel pump connector off but I'm sure you or your mechanic would have already verified that one.

 

[charlg]

get a bottle of starting fluid and spray some in the intake and try to start the boat. if it starts, but wont run, that would confirm the engine isnt getting fuel. then the question is why; is the pump toast or is there a power glitch to the pump or kink in the fuel line or some other clog. as stated earlier, check all the harnesses you might have accidently knocked loose while climbing around espeically anything going to the fuel pump. the pump may not be getting power or only be getting intermittant power which would suck to find out after getting a new pump. if the boat still wont start using the starting fluid, then you still have no spark or intermittant spark.

I put a small amount of gas into the intake and it would not start.

 

[techmitch]

You have two problems. For the primary problem I would look at the fuel filters/fuel supply. The second problem is only solved by a total replacement...of that mechanic.

As I always say, proper diagnosis is 85% of the job.

 

[Gunn]

As I always say, proper diagnosis is 85% of the job.

:thumbsup:

I bet it was getting spark all along..mechanic just assumed it wasn't and decided to replace everything spark related. Then it still wouldn't start, so he assumes fuel pump. So much for troubleshooting and diagnosing the -problem-. Find another mechanic!

FWIW, I had similiar issues to yours when I replaced my fuel filters this spring. Didn't realized I had to fill them up first (never had to in my 3.0l carbureted engine). They started, ran for a few seconds then died. Wouldn't restart. Once I topped off the fuel filters, they were fine. But...it sounds like you have done this, so...

Maybe bad fuel filter? Doubtful, but try swapping fuel filters??

Tom

 

[CliffA]

some ideas...after you crank the engine a few times immediately pull one of the spark plugs....if the tip is not wet with fuel you have a fuel supply problem...even if the plug tip is wet with fuel you may have insufficient fuel pressure....the only way to check that is with a pressure gauge connected to the fuel rail and measured while the engine is cranked over...if you are getting sufficient fuel to the plugs then you likley have a spark issue...to test if the spark is reaching the spark plugs you can get an inexpensive spark tester at Harbor Freight or other places...it will confirm if the spark is reaching the plugs or not...you can also remove one of the plugs and reattach the plug wire...then lay the tip of the plug near a good ground source (i.e. the engine block) and have someone crank the engine over...you should be able to see a nice fat, blue spark in the tip of the plug while the engine is cranked...if there is no spark at all or the spark is weak and/or yellow there is not enough spark to ignite the air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber...this could be from a weak coil, bad plug wires, bad distributor cap, a tripped safety switch at the throttle, or a bad rotor button or some wires accidentaly pulled loose somewhere....i actually did the last item myself not long ago...when i replaced the ignition coil as preventative maintenance i accidently disconnected on of the coil wire connectors...the engine would crank over but not start...that took me a couple hours to track down and remedy...you just have to trouble shoot each component to locate the culprit...it is unlikely but if somehow the distributor got disturbed and the timing was thrown way off the engine will not start....i suppose this could happen if the distributor locking bolt became loose from the engine vibrations the distributor could rotate and throw the timing off, but that is a long shot...

you need these things to make an engine run:
- fuel/air
- spark
- ignition timing

 

[gregkjones]

I put a small amount of gas into the intake and it would not start.

sometimes when you put too much or too little raw gas into the intake, it still wont fire because the fuel is not vaporized enough or the mixture is just way off so it might take a few tries. i have done this on my jet ski while trying to get fuel to feed into a new fuel filter, it takes more gas than you would think even with that small engine but too much and its flooded. the starting fluid is so much more likely to ignite that i would still drop 5 bucks on a can of that and spray a liberal amount into the intake and try again before going into too much spark investigation work (due to the fact that this problem started after the fuel filter change). true it cant hurt to pull a plug and check that at least one is getting a spark but its more of a hassle to do and sometimes you need a second person to crank the engine unless you have a tool for that or you can see the plug from the helm etc. plus after you check one plug and it fires, you will be tempted to check another and another so you will end up pulling all 8 which really is a hassle. the fact that the engine is giving you no sign of life tells me that you still have no fuel or all the plugs arent firing. the can of starting fluid will be an easy way to narrow that down quickly. if the engine wont start with that stuff, there is definately no spark so you can forget about pump problems until the spark problem is resolved. if it does fire but stalls, you'll KNOW it is a fuel issue and you can move on. if the timing was off, even way off, you would at least get the engine to backfire a couple times while attempting to start it. all that said, if you try the starting fluid and you get no sign of life, i would assume as has been mentioned, the coil, coil wire or some harness connection or miscellaneous wire(s) that have been compromised somehow. the squealing noise you heard before things went south still makes me think something went wrong with the pump like air being pulled into it while pulling fuel into the filter, perhaps cavitating or was damaged, maybe just needs to be primed or something. good luck, keep us posted please.

 

[mistercomputerman]

Don't forget to check the not so obvious, obvious.

I leaned across the top of the engine earlier this summer to check the genset oil level. Next day the engine would not start. I spend the morning taking crap apart and pulling spark plugs and whathaveyou. I finally pulled the cover on top of the engine and started looking at all the connectors and one was disconnected, most certainly from me leaning across the top of the engine.

Plugged it back in and all was well.

 

[ardeprint]

If I read correctly, you wrote that you checked fuel pressure and recorded 0 PSI. You need to fix this first!!!! No fuel pressure = no start.

1-Do you hear the fuel pump prime before you start? During prime you should get 30-40 PSI. Anything below 20 PSI usually wont start (0 for sure WONT).
2-Checking spark is easy unplug any spark plug. Pull back rubber boot just a bit (dont expose metal clip), place the shaft of an insulated screw driver about 1/4 inch from opening and the tip on ground (bolt or metal engine part. NOT A COMPUTER). If you see a blue arc you have spark. MAKE SURE TO NOT TOUCH ANY METAL PART OF SCREWDRIVER WHILE TESTING...OUCH!!!).

Have you tried any of the many recomendations from this thread apart from putting fuel down the throtle body?

 

[gregkjones]

yes, and now that you mention the obvious, obvious: another one that could be overlooked; you did turn the fuel selector back to the ON position after the filter change right? stranger things have happened. i forgot to open the seacock once for the genny after replacing the zinc in the heat exchanger. so much for that impeller. it squealed before it died too.

 

[ardeprint]

yes, and now that you mention the obvious, obvious: another one that could be overlooked; you did turn the fuel selector back to the ON position after the filter change right? stranger things have happened. i forgot to open the seacock once for the genny after replacing the zinc in the heat exchanger. so much for that impeller. it squealed before it died too.

Great point!!! I did this last time a replaced my fuel pump. While trying different things to diagnose problem we shut the fuel selector off. It took me a few moments of dispair and cursing to realize my error.

 

[Bob & Sue]

I agree with using the starter fluid it works better than gas had a starting problem on my john deere the other day fired right up with starter fluid it was a plugged vent in gas cap, I knew there was spark by using an inline spark plug tester it plugs into spark plug and lead shows if there's spark with a light and there's no external spark to worry about a fume fire cheap and easy to use. I carry one on the boat plus one at home.
http://www.amazon.com/Fool-proof-Engine-Ignition-Spark-Tester/dp/B0042KJV9U