Please delete

[Boat Guy]

Maybe next time you want to talk about "sailboat infestations", you'll remember what your momma told you about not saying anything at all if you can't say something nice. Or did your momma forget that particular life lesson?

Wally, you should take her advice...Your attitude and behavior here won't serve you well....

Security, Security, Security, be advised SV Gypsy Wind will be running up and down the ICW and will require a fast pass....Be sure to show your hospitality and respect...and I mean that genuinely.

All I can say is true disappointment.... You could have come here as a diplomat and olive branch, yet yours words will speak for themselves....

 

[northshore]

Ha ha! (Off the record, I agree...) I see you're from Cleveland, so that and Sea Rays might be the only common ground between us!

If someday Cleveland ever has a real NFL football team, I will get to say that with a straight face!

 

[Canuck01]

Wally, you should take her advice...Your attitude and behavior here won't serve you well....

Security, Security, Security, be advised SV Gypsy Wind will be running up and down the ICW and will require a fast pass....Be sure to show your hospitality and respect...and I mean that genuinely.

All I can say is true disappointment.... You could have come here as a diplomat and olive branch, yet yours words will speak for themselves....

I don't do diplomacy at all well (perhaps you've noticed? and no one would have paid any attention had I done so. This way, we've got a discussion happening, and the one or two who need to look at themselves and their behaviour on the water are hopefully doing so.

 

[scooper321]

Scooper, I was pissed for three days at some comments I was reading here, they were so asinine. You see me as picking fights, I see it as showing you guys what the other side is thinking. You want fights, I'll invite a couple of real idiots over here and you'll see some fighting.
I wasn't insulted that you called it trolling btw - not in the least. What bothered me was the attitude from some - not you - that it couldn't be the powerboater that was in the wrong here, even when it's QUITE clear that's the case, because...because....well, we're powerboaters, and the underlying attitude I heard is that sailors are jerks.
Sure, I came on with attitude, but a few people are seeing my points and perhaps now we can make some progress here on improving boating for all of us.
Now if you can provide some advice on helping the Maple Leafs win a Stanley Cup before I die - their last one was in 1967 for God's sake - I'd appreciate that immensely.

Thanks. I'll just say this. No "group" of any kind (race, gender, age, religion, political party or boat preference) is perfect just because of their affiliation. As I said, there are plenty of idiot power boaters (not on THIS forum, however. They are all on the Formula forums). And there are plenty of arrogant sail boaters, too. I'm over here near Annapolis, the self-appointed sailing capital of the world. So you can imagine that I see my share of sail "attitude". Look, at the end of the day, we're all on the water. And that's what counts. At least to me. When I'm not on the water, I like to ride my Harley. Most of my friends ride Harleys, too. But if someone shows up on a Suzuki, it's fine. We're all on two wheels. Just don't show up on a Vespa...

As for the Leafs (why aren't they the Leaves?), I can't help. I'm not a hockey fan at all. But if it's any encouragement, look who just won the Cup this year. If they can win it, anyone can. So maybe there's hope...

 

[Golfman25]

Scooper, I was pissed for three days at some comments I was reading here, they were so asinine.

And therein lies the problem. Good luck to you.

 

[Canuck01]

Thanks. I'll just say this. No "group" of any kind (race, gender, age, religion, political party or boat preference) is perfect just because of their affiliation. As I said, there are plenty of idiot power boaters (not on THIS forum, however. They are all on the Formula forums). And there are plenty of arrogant sail boaters, too. I'm over here near Annapolis, the self-appointed sailing capital of the world. So you can imagine that I see my share of sail "attitude". Look, at the end of the day, we're all on the water. And that's what counts. At least to me. When I'm not on the water, I like to ride my Harley. Most of my friends ride Harleys, too. But if someone shows up on a Suzuki, it's fine. We're all on two wheels. Just don't show up on a Vespa...

As for the Leafs, sorry. I can't help. I'm not a hockey fan at all. But if it's any encouragement, look who just won the Cup this year. If they can win it, anyone can. So maybe there's hope...

Ok, I ride a Gold Wing, seriously! Used to ride with a group of guys on HDs, and then I was pushing a Honda 450 - automatic if you can believe it, my first bike. Had a lot of fun and the HD riders were great, even if I could only keep up going downhill.
btw, I'm with you on the Formula guys...so maybe I'll just not sign up there right now And as for arrogant sailors, Annapolis does have them and I have issues with them too - the racers are often dumber than Formula boaters, and less respectful of the rules of the road and I know that's hard to believe - I could tell you some stories about that. Two boats racing, tacking back and forth in Tampa Bay, in the ship's channel, completely unaware of the freighter coming up behind then...oh yes, they're out there.

 

[scooper321]

Ok, I ride a Gold Wing, seriously! Used to ride with a group of guys on HDs, and then I was pushing a Honda 450 - automatic if you can believe it, my first bike. Had a lot of fun and the HD riders were great, even if I could only keep up going downhill.
btw, I'm with you on the Formula guys...so maybe I'll just not sign up there right now And as for arrogant sailors, Annapolis does have them and I have issues with them too - the racers are often dumber than Formula boaters, and less respectful of the rules of the road and I know that's hard to believe - I could tell you some stories about that. Two boats racing, tacking back and forth in Tampa Bay, in the ship's channel, completely unaware of the freighter coming up behind then...oh yes, they're out there.

SMH... I said Suzuki, not a Gold Wing!

 

[Boat Guy]

I don't do diplomacy at all well (perhaps you've noticed? and no one would have paid any attention had I done so......

You're wrong again....This forum isn't typical...We are a group of boaters that respect and help each other. There is no drama here, simply because we're not that kind of people...We respect the water, and in turn, that means we respect those vessels that are on it....All of them... Everyone would have paid attention, yet they might not agree with you.

You would have received much better attention had you been respectful and offered an educated opinion... Which, opinions, are all we had when the initial reports went out...Since then we have a lot more information. Being condescending to me for simply being interested in additional data tells me a lot, unfortunately.... Come on, reflect on how you started this and how this banter had muddied this thread....Honestly, you haven't done anything for making sailors more positive in the eyes of power boaters. Want to try again?

 

[northshore]

Ok just so we can keep this going, I'm forwarding this thread to my next door neighbor with a Formula

 

[Bridog]

Why not...
1) Formula owners are the low testosterone version of go fast boaters.

 

[Canuck01]

You're wrong again....This forum isn't typical...We are a group of boaters that respect and help each other. There is no drama here, simply because we're not that kind of people...We respect the water, and in turn, that means we respect those vessels that are on it....All of them... Everyone would have paid attention, yet they might not agree with you.

You would have received much better attention had you been respectful and offered an educated opinion... Which, opinions, are all we had when the initial reports went out...Since then we have a lot more information. Being condescending to me for simply being interested in additional data tells me a lot, unfortunately.... Come on, reflect on how you started this and how this banter had muddied this thread....Honestly, you haven't done anything for making sailors more positive in the eyes of power boaters. Want to try again?

Boat Guy, you asked questions that were already answered, or irrelevant to the discussion, given what was known - the OP here was from someone on the boat that hit the sailboat. Doesn't get much better than that, and I say that as a long time journalist and newspaper owner who's dealt with some sketchy interviewees.
Yea, I roiled the waters, don't deny it, but comments from several people here were simply not sufferable imo. "Sailboat infestations" for example. Sailors, despite your claim that everyone respects all the vessels on the water hear this kind of crap all the time, and deal all the time with discourteous powerboaters with their wakes, close passes and other unseamanlike behaviours. Then we get an accident like this, and some of you are trying to defend this incompetent? Let's be real, ok? There's no defending this one.
If a few of you get the message, that some of you need to reconsider your attitudes and behaviour towards sailors, I'm satisfied with that. As I said to Mike, above, in my line of work, if someone isn't annoyed at something I've written in the past couple of weeks, I'm not doing my job.

 

[Black Valkyrie]

See? I was right.. sailboats make people really angry.

 

[Canuck01]

See? I was right.. sailboats make people really angry.

Only people who aren't sailors....

 

[PlayDate]

Trolling – (verb), as it relates to internet, is the deliberate act, (by a Troll – noun or adjective), of making random unsolicited and/or controversial comments on various internet forums with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerk reaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument.

Clearly, Trolls enjoy their work and feel they are making a valuable contribution by insulting, denigrating and arguing over every response they get. Trolls will go away when they are banned or simply ignored. Being banned is a great honor for most of them.

From my perspective, they add zero value to the conversation at hand and should remind all of us not to link CSR to Facebook posts.

 

[Canuck01]

Trolling – (verb), as it relates to internet, is the deliberate act, (by a Troll – noun or adjective), of making random unsolicited and/or controversial comments on various internet forums with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerk reaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument.

Clearly, Trolls enjoy their work and feel they are making a valuable contribution by insulting, denigrating and arguing over every response they get. Trolls will go away when they are banned or simply ignored. Being banned is a great honor for most of them.

From my perspective, they add zero value to the conversation at hand and should remind all of us not to link CSR to Facebook posts.

What I truly enjoy is people like you being offended and not responding to the issue at hand but attacking the poster. It's called ad hominem, you should look it up. Want to talk about the issues now, or do you just want to whine because you don't like sailors challenging your precious self image and ego? We can talk about who has added zero value to this conversation... or shall I provide you the definition for 'jackass'? We can use your photo...

 

[ttmott]

Actually Canuck01, I’m happy you are here; I have a couple of situational questions that I could use some candid response. Actually, three situations this last Saturday but it’s definitely a trend.

First – we were moving south on the Intercoastal waterway here in East Central Florida at trawler speed (16 knots) and were hugging the right side of the waterway. The channel in this particular area is about 200-300 feet wide and shoaling is prominent outside of the channel; stay in the channel is the message. Northward bound is a 30 something Beneteau with a jib up that was slack; she was under power and moving about 6 knots which I noticed during passing. This sailing (motor) vessel was hugging their left side of the channel and head on to my vessel. With nowhere to maneuver away from what appeared a vessel under sail I pulled my 52 Sedan Bridge to a stop and held steady along my right side of the channel. The Beneteau pulled to the channel center and passed on my port side with a good looking lady (and she was easy on the eyes) yelling various colorful metaphors and giving us the universal finger acknowledgement. They passed then pulled back to their left side of the channel and motored on. I looked back in astonishment with the small children on my vessel asking what that was all about; I had no rational explanation.

Second – This couldn’t be twenty minutes later from the first incident above; Still navigating southward we were moving at about 25 knots and came up on another sailing vessel moving in our direction that was left of channel center. This boat had their mainsail and jib up but both were slack and they also were motoring. That vessel’s (which was an awesome looking Shannon) captain didn’t see us nor had any idea we were behind. We pulled back to trawler speed and sounded one short blast on the horn, and it’s a loud horn, and began to overtake on our port side; the widest part of the channel based upon their position. There was not a horn response from them. The captain of that vessel then maneuvered into us as we were passing and crowed us to the marker side of the channel. When he saw what was overtaking he steered back to the center of the channel then came the message on Ch 16 with a verbal scolding of my lack of navigational knowledge; I responded “let’s go to six eight and talk about it” – crickets……

Third – narrow drawbridge, on what we call the Barge Canal. We were moving under the drawbridge at maneuvering speed which is about 8 knots in the 52. Awaiting on the other side of the bridge was a 35 foot ketch dead nuts in the middle of the bridge waterway exit bow towards us. Sails down they were waiting for the bridge to open. We pulled through but the ketch would not move and we passed on our port side which was the only plausible pathway through and within 4 or 5 feet of their rail. The captain and mate were astonished and appeared quite peeved. My wave did not receive a response.

So, this was last Saturday however it is routine navigational chess for us here in this area. You appear a knowledgeable sailor; how would you respond / critique the above? The message here is, there is ignorance, thoughtlessness, foolishness, and bad attitude that can exist on any vessel but the sailors really showed their wares and lack of, call it knowledge and courtesy, for a much larger vessel the other day…

And, BTW, welcome to our forum; hang around, you will definitely find good entertainment and quite possibly some enlightenment and technical wherewithal.

 

[Handsome Transom]

What I truly enjoy is people like you being offended and not responding to the issue at hand but attacking the poster. It's called ad hominem, you should look it up. Want to talk about the issues now, or do you just want to whine because you don't like sailors challenging your precious self image and ego? We can talk about who has added zero value to this conversation... or shall I provide you the definition for 'jackass'? We can use your photo...

The issue at hand is your arrogance . I will not extend the courtesy of welcoming you to the forum because you are beyond rude.. As far as your reference to others attacking the poster instead of the issue being ad hominem I suppose you might be qualified to define that type of of argument since it is a tendency of your writings. BTW what fing rag to you write for ? Just remember opinions are like assholes we all have one ,you just happen to wear yours like a nametag

 

[skibum]

Wow I go away for a few days and this turns into a train wreck.

Just remember that even sailors have bad days. Go figure...

https://timesofsandiego.com/crime/2...shes-into-uss-midway-in-san-diego-harbor/amp/

 

[PlayDate]

What I truly enjoy is people like you being offended and not responding to the issue at hand but attacking the poster. It's called ad hominem, you should look it up. Want to talk about the issues now, or do you just want to whine because you don't like sailors challenging your precious self image and ego? We can talk about who has added zero value to this conversation... or shall I provide you the definition for 'jackass'? We can use your photo...

Classic Troll behavior: Argue, insult, bait and name calling.....repeat. I don't know what pleasure people get from it but they apparently do since it shows up eventually on most successful on-line forums. In fairness, since you are new, the type of member name calling you engage in is grounds to get you banned. If that is what you want, just keep posting away and don't forget to add more colorful language to your insults.

 

[Captn TJ]

You might know Bowditch, but you certainly don't understand the spirit of it, do you? What I've read from some of you indicates that you guys shouldn't have a 12 foot aluminum with a 40# electric motor, much less a high powered sportsboat. Not all of you, but quite a few...
No surprise you're out of Cleveland, a low class city if there ever was one.

Wow you need to either brush up on your communication skills or take some tranquilizers. If anything your approach turned people off from leaning about sailing and sailors. As an ex sailor of 30 years (sailed all of the great lakes and the Caribbean as well) and most recently a Sea Ray owner, there are pluses and minus to each. There are strong personalities in each group. I also know a few people who've bought large sailboats with not a clue on how to operate them or the rules of the road. Same holds true of some people buying powerboats.

Regardless of the type of boat you operate and the situation you're in, Colregs clearly states that it is the Captain's responsibility to prevent a collision - in that same paragraph of Colregs it doesn't clarify the type of vessel the Captain is operating. Let's leave it at that.

And by the way apparently you haven't been to Cleveland lately so you might want to visit it before you slam it. .