Please delete

Black Valkyrie said:
I already pointed that out... I'm the one who posted the Washington Post article.

This isn't rocket science. Not sure why I need to take the time out of my day to retype the obvious : both the news article and the OP's post are an accounting of the same event. The OP removed all info about the event, yet there is still a public accounting available of it in publications as large as the Washington Post.

Have I satisfied all those who possess poor reading comprehension or are lacking in other faculties that would otherwise permit them to follow logic flow?
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That's the best ya got?
 
Soulshine said:
Urtica,

“Who the hell are you?” was not directed at you and the tone you assigned to the “sail infested waters” comment was not intended, but shorthand for the fact there are a million sailboats concentrated in a very small area as explained.
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No worries. I figured it wasn't to me. Just wanted to let you know it's all good. No hard feelings.
 
I'm a sailor, and qualified to instruct, as well as teach boating safety in Canada. I travel between the Great Lakes and Cuba or the Bahamas annually. I'm not a fan of power boats, don't like the noise of them, and the ride is unpleasant, but that's me. I do know how to handle a variety of powerboats however, as a professional matter. You probably don't like how slow sailboats are, and how they seem like so much work. To each their own, as Mom would have said. The biggest problem is that most of you here have no idea how to sail, and thus, no idea why sailboats move as they do. That creates problems on the water, but those can be dealt with by safety minded, courteous boaters.
What DOES annoy me is people like Soulshine who from his comments thinks his fecal matter is not malodourous. I see his type on the water all the time - you can tell by the total lack of respect people like him have for others, especially those who don't have a powerboat. I suspect he's the type of powerboater who roars past slower boats - sail, trawlers, small fishing boats - and never realizes the discomfort his wake causes, or the danger to paddleboarders, canoeists and kayakers who can be swamped by his discourtesy.
I mean, seriously, this is a guy who has no idea what a sailing regatta is, and thinks it's just a mishmosh of sailors doing Crazy Ivans.
He thinks we take our right of way "to extremes" and expect him to get out of the way. Perhaps if he stayed clear of sailboats as he should (and as the guy running that fishing charter should have), he wouldn't have these problems, but he doesn't see it that way. He confirms that for us by stating he has a hard time staying clear of sailboats - meaning he's too damn close in the first place. I mean, seriously, just how competent do you have to be to stay clear of a 5 mph vessel when yours can do 30? And that's really the big question in this accident, isn't it?
Perhaps if Soulshine learned how a sailboat operates, he'd understand why sometimes we have to make incomprehensible (to him) manoeuvres. And of course, if he had the intelligence to stay clear, he wouldn't have to bother even learning that much, would he?
Then we have Boat Guy, who tries to find excuses for this captain. Here's a little info for you dude. Those sailboats don't get let out to just anyone. The club will make sure the person running it is capable of handling it, and for the record, the J105 is a fast and highly manoeuvrable sailboat, typically used by racers.
The reports I've read state that Winch had to turn on the powerboat's radio to call for assistance - so what difference does it make if the sailboat was trying to hail? What was he going to say? "Hey asshole? I'm that big white thing with those 50 foot high rags on a stick that you're about to run down. Mind maybe moving over a bit?"
And what if the sailboat tacked, or gybed? On a clear day, that boat is visible well over a mile away. The powerboat should have been nowhere near it.
Then this genius says "I'd also like to hear from the SV crew as to their reasoning for not avoiding the accident."
Well, Boat Guy Genius, when some asshole is ripping towards you at 30 mph and not paying attention and the best you can do is 6 or 7, avoiding the accident isn't really easy. You don't need to be a Boat Guy Genius to understand that.
Let's say that the sailors became aware the boat wasn't turning away at a quarter mile distance - very unlikely, that's a fair way out but let's presume. At 30 mph, the powerboat will cover that distance in 30 seconds. In 30 seconds, presuming the sailboat is doing 5 mph, it will move less than 250 feet. And that's presuming it doesn't have to change course. And we're presuming that the sailors had perfect reactions and realized at that there was a problem with a boat a quarter mile away.
DDT is the smart one here - he knows to stay upwind of sailboats. While that's not failsafe, it's smart, and I would bet he stays well away also.
Last comment is for Soulshine - I too often find myself sailing in powerboat infested waters. For that reason, I frequently go offshore, because most of your boats can't get out there where I am, making it safer and more enjoyable for me, and of the ones that do, they're typically pretty capable boaters.
I'm sorry if I offended anyone here - besides Soulshine that is - but I've been reading this thread for three days now and simply couldn't believe the arrogance of some of you. We all go boating to enjoy ourselves, but a lot of powerboaters in my experience don't seem to think about how their boat handling affects the other people they share the water with. A sailboat is limited in speed and its ability to get out of your way - that's why they are typically not the burdened vessel in a meeting with powerboats. In most cases, it's up to you as the faster and more powerful boat to exercise due care to avoid accidents.
I mean, I've never seen a photo of a powerboat that's been t-boned by a sailboat. I'm sure you haven't either.
p.s. Winch, kudos to you on keeping your head and doing what needed to be done. I'm sure that if you had been running that boat, this wouldn't have happened.
 
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Soulshine said:
Who the hell are you?

My comments about local sailors was derived from my own experience in my area, not an implication that this sail boat’s captain was anything but competent. I didn’t offer an opinion about the charter boat captain because I have no idea what going on in his head, but it seemed obvious enough that he made some mistakes.

As far as the “sail infested waters” comment, I’ll explian:

I boat on a lake that is 40 miles long, 2 miles wide at its ends and maybe 5 miles wide at its widest. It’s very common for me to enter the lake at the south end to see 40 or more sail boats circling around in a 2 mile area. Why the other 38 miles of the lake are unused by them is beyond me, but threading through them safely and correctly in a safe manner is challenging.

I often find that as soon as I take steps to give way to one there are three others heading towards me. It’s not uncommon for a sail boat here to be under power with sails furled and conspicuously keeping his heading regardless of what’s around him.

The sail boats here are entangled and in each other’s way far more often than the power boaters are and myself, I’ve never had so much as a close call.

Why? Because I know what’s going on and bust my ass to stay out of the way.

Be careful who you call ignorant.
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Maybe the other 38 miles of the lake aren't used by them because, at 5 knots, it takes all day to get there? Furthermore, you shouldn't be "threading through them". You should be going far around them, which would be faster, easier and better for everyone's nerves, yours included. As for the sailor under power who disobeys the Colregs re 'right of way', he's wrong, but you are still obligated to stay clear in order to avoid an accident, even if he's totally in the wrong. That's just how the Regs are written.
Maybe you should just boat in the non infested waters that make up the majority of this lake you're on?
 
Sigh...

I (and everyone else) has to thread their way through them in order to do just what you suggest, get north into clearer water.

This end of the lake as mentioned is 2 miles wide or so and flanked on both sides by sheer cliffs. Your post assumes that the sail boats are spinning around in a 1 mile circle leaving all kinds of room to “go far around them” as you suggest.

The fact is that the absolute WORST thing I can do is get between them and the cliffs.

You clearly have a bias here and haven’t been paying attention.

This slowness you mention in sailboats seems from an outside perspective to be well compensated by a nimbleness that amazes me, while I’m in a 20,000 lb. vessel that isn’t nearly as responsive.

I go very far out of my way to give way and always do. Expressing the fact that it can be difficult under MY circumstances (which you know nothing about) really shouldn’t get you so emotionally knotted up.

Also to address your comment about time and distance related to using more of the available territory:

Spending all day sailing around in circles for 10 hours and 50 miles in traffic is different than spreading out a bit how exactly? Same time spent and distance traveled.

I haven’t seen a sailboat t bone a power boat either, but I’ve seen more than one sail boat collision over the years.

Give it a rest already.
 
Just another "drive by trolling".... Imagine if CSR members started showing up on Sailing websites complaining about sailboats......

In a world where digital social media encourages everyone to express their opinions (ignorant or insightful) it is just the new normal that people will show up just to throw grenades and leave. In my opinion, trolling just gets in the way civil/helpful discussions because the trollers have no experience with the community they are ranting about. Perhaps it is an undiagnosed mental disorder on their part or they are anti-social but it is a sad reality.
 
Just to add (a little off topic) we have a small tributary river that our marina (as well as a bunch of others) sits on. This river is probably 300' wide with marinas on each side, leaving the path to the Ohio river somewhat narrow. There are often kayakers and paddleboarders on this tributary river, which is great. I mean this river is perfect for them. But occasionally you get 3 or 4 of them together and they spread out across the river about 10' apart meaning the only way to get around them is to go by within 10' of one. Most stick together closer to the shore to give room to the power boats but those that don't create a real safety issue for themselves. This is a no wake river but nonetheless, I am not comfortable getting that close to a kayaker but they leave us no choice. My guess are the ones that do this are the inexperienced ones that have no idea how that affects us to have to get that close.
 
boatman37 said:
Just to add (a little off topic) we have a small tributary river that our marina (as well as a bunch of others) sits on. This river is probably 300' wide with marinas on each side, leaving the path to the Ohio river somewhat narrow. There are often kayakers and paddleboarders on this tributary river, which is great. I mean this river is perfect for them. But occasionally you get 3 or 4 of them together and they spread out across the river about 10' apart meaning the only way to get around them is to go by within 10' of one. Most stick together closer to the shore to give room to the power boats but those that don't create a real safety issue for themselves. This is a no wake river but nonetheless, I am not comfortable getting that close to a kayaker but they leave us no choice. My guess are the ones that do this are the inexperienced ones that have no idea how that affects us to have to get that close.
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That's nothing. We have a river in town. It's not wide, very shallow, and full of every activity you can imagine. Big cruisers, "cigarette" boats, bow riders, skiers, tubers, fishing boats, jet skies, kayaks, etc. Oh, and docks jetting out from the banks. Only one area by the dam is no wake. It's like boating on the interstate -- absolutely nuts. No sail boats though. :)
 
Wow. I didn't read this for a couple of days and look at all the "fun" I missed. Dang, some of you guys really go for the throat, don't you.
 
Sitting at our club last night with a few friend boaters one of which is a blow boater and I told him about this thread and some of the 'holier than thou' drive by posts and with the straightest of faces he looks right at me and goes "Well, yes you guys (power boaters) are pretty f___ing stupid!".
It took about 5 minutes for everyone to stop laughing.

Life is too short kids. Have a great time as long as it doesn't jeopardize someone elses.
And I doubt there is a soul on this board that doesn't already get that.
 
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This is an odd thread. Not one I’d expect on CSR. Yes, there are lots of arrogant boaters of both types. Neither group has the market cornered on stupidity or on boating knowledge. So I don’t get all the venom and partisanship. But in today’s society, I suppose that’s to be expected. Everything is polarized these days. The thing that bugs me about this thread is that an obvious non sea Ray owning, non Sea Ray fan, has Just joined up and made only two posts. And both are here, in this thread. He makes some valid points, but I agree with whomever said he was a troll. He only joined here to cause dissension.

Don’t misunderstand. I’m not supporting any of the power boater posts above. But this guy is out of line.

How do we move this thread to THT?
 
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