Planning an Upgrade and Need Advice on Brokering

[standers]

Call me crazy, but I new this day was coming when I bought this boat last season. We really wanted the 48 Sundancer but backed off and went with the 44 Sundancer. Now it's time to move on.

Following is my plan of action for selling the 44 and positioning us for a 48. I'd appreciate any comments on the approach and especially as I've never worked with a broker, it would be great to hear everyone's tips, do's/don'ts and lessons learned.

1. Identify 3 - 5 brokers via referrals.....2. Telephone q & a with all brokers to learn about any added value/differentiators....3. Talk to a satisfied customer or two.....3. Negotiate favorable terms with broker.....4. Determine best price for boat making it attractive to buy but yielding me the best return (this may be the most difficult to accomplish although I am very right side up on finances) ....5. Close deal by end of boating season or sooner.....6. Hold over the fall/winter and study the used/leftover market.....7. Learn as much as possible about 48 Sundancer.....8. Strike best deal possible anytime comfort and confidence says to do so....

Any feedback on the 48 Sundancer would also be great - I don't recall reading any posts from a 48 owner - if you're out there, drop me a line on what I should know. (I have taken a 48 out twice earlier.)

Thanks all - this could be fun and exciting, especially when there's no rush and no pressure. With all the wisdom on this board, it will for sure be educational.

 

[Skip]

I have never run a 48DA. I know that my local dealer (Prince William Marine) has had a blue hulled 48DA in stock for some time. 44s go relatively quickly at this dealer, 48s less so. The Cummins Tech who does my non-DIY services indicated that some of the 48DA boats he works on have unhappy owners-the source of unhappiness being dissatisfaction with the 8.3L Cummins power (QSC 500s, I think) in this hull; not enough power.

This is a single data point, not corroborated in any way.

I guess I'd ask what the key differences are between 48 and 44 for the money, and is the 48 really the boat you see yourself in 3-5 years hence, given the depreciation curve over that period.

We looked at a 48 and for me the incremental increases were not worth the added cost, but that is our perspective only. Since we berthed next to Four Suns and my wife got the tour I am a goner. When the DA goes it is on to bridge boats.

regards
Skip

 

[standers]

Skip-

Thanks for your response - I appreciate your comments - It appears I have stumped the others!

You are correct - it is hard to justify the incremental improvements from 44 to 48 given the cost difference. But then again, I've given up trying to justify any costs when it comes to boating - the true value to us is the escape and the decompression that comes with it after ridiculously long hours in our business.

Frankly, we need just a little bit more room than what we currently have and I'm a big fan of the full windshield and no more fussing with isenglas.

I'll do my homework on the powerplant concerns.

(Sorry - didn't get too much time together at BIH. Will catch up next go-round)

Stan

 

[Skip]

Stan,
Dom has some helm time in a 48 and loaded up with people I recall him posting that he thought it did just fine.
Prince William Marine has an 07 48, Blue Hull, nicely optioned, and I think Sea Ray has some incentive money to help new ones move quickly-FYI.

regards
Skip

 

[osd9]

Stan:

A friend here in Toms River, NJ had one of the first 48's Sea Ray put out. He just sold it this spring and went to a 53' Flemming (trawler). I've had some time on his 48 and I drove a 48 a few weeks ago at a MM getaway.

Neither experience makes me a 48' officianado, but I'll throw in my opinions and thoughts.

I've not noticed any lack of power, or get up and go in either boat. On the test ride I took with MM, there was over 12 POB and that baby jumped on plane and ran right up to 23-24K cruise. It handled like a dream and had room galore. One note on weight...the boat we took out was just about on fumes, so if you add a full tank of fuel and all of your "STUFF" and then take away about 8 of the POBs you would probably be loaded the same.

I love the boat, but there is one little area that, IMHO, is all fluff and wastes some valuable cockpit space....that's the "Spinning" Helms pod. When the pod is in normal position, all the space behind the pod is.....well...just there and not useable. Folks can stand behind the captain when running, but, who wants someone looking over their shoulder when there running a 48 footer?

Again, IMHO, Sea Ray could have used that space to enlarge the aft lounge space.

As to selling your 44, it seems like you have a good handle on it. Your coming into the slow time of year at a very slow time in the market. The demo 48 that I rode is still available. It may be worth giving them a call and working some numbers on a trade....for giggles anyway, but at least to get a baseline. The tax savings on trading an 06 44DA is non trivial and that may be just enough to make the deal happen.

Good luck and keep us posted. I look forward to sitting behind your new girl next year at the 2nd anual BIH get together and smoking a cigar and sipping some port wine.... :thumbsup:....who knows, I may just have a 46 by then....I've been out looking and the salesman has his eye out for me also....

 

[Converse48]

Stan,

I'm not challenging your thinking because it's clear that you've really thought this through, just curious though, why not a trade?

The tax implications and lack of broker fees may cover any difference in return to you.

 

[CSR_Admin]

Since Sea Ray brokerage is what we do I think I can field some of these Q's:

1. Identify 3 - 5 brokers via referrals..... - Sounds good to me.

2. Telephone q & a with all brokers to learn about any added value/differentiators.... - Sounds good to me too, but try to see through the smoke and mirrors. Some brokers are great at selling their services through a bunch of promises. Other brokers, including myself, will feed you the straight scoop which of course does not sound as appealing as the inflated figures you might hear elsewhere. I personally am not in the business of padding our list with overpriced boats, people will usually find their way to us once the other promises they received have not panned out.

3. Talk to a satisfied customer or two..... - Sounds good too

3. Negotiate favorable terms with broker..... - This is not in your best interest. If you plan to use a broker one benefit is that the boat will be listed on an MLS so other brokers will show it. If you reduce the commission this goes out the window, so you may actually save a little perceived money but lose in the end as other brokers may not present your boat to their buyers since there are a dozen other boats just like yours with a full commission. If you want to save about $35K you can sign up for our FLEX Plan which has a 3% commission. All you need to do is show the boat. This is what most of our Sea Ray sellers choose as the Sea Ray market is so competitive. Our sellers have an unfair advantage.

4. Determine best price for boat making it attractive to buy but yielding me the best return (this may be the most difficult to accomplish although I am very right side up on finances) .... - Sea Ray pricing is as predictable as the Tide. One of the nice things about building a gazzilion boats.

5. Close deal by end of boating season or sooner..... - There is always a buyer for any given model of Sea Ray at any given time. You can literally sell as fast as you want. Just need to set your price right.

6. Hold over the fall/winter and study the used/leftover market..... - Sounds good, your boat will have depreciated one more year in this time, but so will the ones you are looking at. This should not impact your out of pocket expense.


7. Learn as much as possible about 48 Sundancer.....

8. Strike best deal possible anytime comfort and confidence says to do so.... - Again, there are always deals out there on any given model Sea Ray. You should be prepared to do the whole deal (sell and buy) at one time, that way we can process your 44 as a trade towards the new one saving you an additional $20K in taxes. That is $55K we can save you total.

 

[standers]

Thanks everyone for the responses...

Dom - The QSC540's on the 48 I took out seemed to handle it just fine. While I did not take it to the wall, we were running at 26/27 knots with ease. I was more concerned with GPH burn as read from Smartcraft - I typically cruise the 44 at 2100 RPM for a speed of 22/23 knots and a burn of 29/30 GPH. The 48 at 22/23 knots (I forget the RPM's) showed a burn of 39 GPH. Given the 48 is 50% heavier than the 44, I would expect an increase in the burn rate - not sure if 1/3 more is reasonable or not.

Tim - I began with the trade route and recognize the tax implications. If I can sell outright and remove any "carrying costs" from the dealer on a trade, the current soft market will position me to negotiate wholesale numbers. This happened before my eyes this year when I was quoted a number on an '07 48 trading in my 44. I thought the number was a bit high (little did I know then!), thoght they could do better and walked away. I found the same boat later this season with its new owner who shared his deal with me. He had a trade but brought a buyer to the table for his traded boat. He accomplished tax savings on the "pass-through" trade and then bought the 48 for, are you ready...$130,000 less than what I was quoted. Yeah, really! It was explained to me as carrying costs on the trade - I told them BS - if they want my business, I'll present the numbers to them! In digging deeper into dealer's cost, it appeared they let the boat go for around $15 - 20K over cost.

With that knowledge, I'm determined to have an '07 48 Sundancer in my slip for mid to high 600's. Leftover '07's will need to go soon and if I can remove trade issues from the equation, I can take a different strategy on the sale of my boat and the impact of tax savings ($22,000 or so).

Jim - thanks for the insight from the broker's world. I'd like to set up a time where I can call in and learn more about your services. Would you send me a PM or e-mail?

Thanks again to all...

Stan

 

[Dancin Dave]

Standers, have you been on the 48? In the heat and sun.... all day?I would bet it gets pretty hot at the helm with all that glass. Even while underway, the window/hatch wont funnel enough air in to cool it. I like the capability of removing a section of strataglass to feel and enjoy the fresh air. On a nice day, cruising with the panel down, wind blowing in my face looking out over the water, standing there in the middle of the helm...ahhh summer boating! Dont we look through enough glass? Running all those gens and a/c units just to be comfy at the helm, to me takes an aspect of boating away...too artificial. I imagine you would need a drop down curtain to keep the cool air in, while using the cockpit area while at rest. I was on a friends boat (not a Searay, but same set up) once, it was like a blazin oven. No thanks

Something to explore or just think about. :smt001 Good luck!