over serviced ?

[Fetch ND]

I no some will say I'm crazy - that's OK cause I am

But I was thinking about oil changes etc. in a boat - V8 - it's not like it is driven in a dirty environment or at least mine is not hot rodded or ever over heated

when I have ever changed oil it looks like new clean oil

Sometimes I kinda subscribe to "If it's not broke - don't fix it"

 

[jakebrake]

oil is cheaper and easier to change than engines...period. i use full synth in my harley. looks clean every 2500. i change it anyway. $65 bucks for an oil change vs $6500 for an 88 inch motor.

doesn't your boat deserve the same?

 

[Turtlesboat]

Man, these engines are run hard, real hard. cruising between 3000 and 4000 RPM's is about 3 times what my truck has to endure. Change the oil.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Not the place you want to start skimpin'. Oil goes bad over time. Even in cars, doesn't your manual say something like "3,000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first"? I think we should all be happy that Merc only recommends 100 hours or once a season.

Tell 'ya what - you keep doing what you're doing, I'll get an estimate ready for a new engine that you can buy from me.:smt001

 

[Loneranger]

Instead of paying for an oil change next time, take out an oil sample and have it analyzed instead. Then you need to post the results. I realize it is cheap and easy to change but it would be interesting to know what shape the oil is in when it is time to be changed. I wonder how much science is put into the recommendations of service intervals and how much is expert opinion. For the vast majority of cars 3000 miles is too frequent.

John

 

[tobnpr]

Like Mike said, a boat is not like a car.
Running a boat is like driving your car up the side of a mountain, continuously.

 

[Quint4]

ding...ding...ding....Loneranger gets to the question......We all know oil changes are cheaper than new engines. Fetch asks if the oil looks perfectly fine...is it really.....I suspect it has lost some needed properties but have wondered also.

 

[fc3]

You can do that. Just have it analyzed. You don't know if the ph, viscosity, or lubricity is otherwise in or out of spec.

 

[electricaldoctor]

What does it cost to have your oil analized? How long does it take to get the results? Where would one even go to get this done? Would it not be quicker & cheaper to just do the freak'n oil change?

 

[fwebster]

One of the primary reasons to change, not only engine oil, but any gear case or transmission lube is to remove the moisture from condensate that has been trapped there since your last lubricant change. If you forgo maintenance you will eventually pay something for the damage that corrosion does to real expensive parts.

An oil analysis only reports after the fact......a nice printed report that states "excessive ferrous or aluminum oxide" only tells you you waited too long and will leave you guessing how bad the damage is.

Further, how many of us know enough chemistry to tell from an oil analysis that the anti corrosion and anti foaming additives in the oil have broken down and are no longer functioning.

There is a reason engine manufacturer's service recommendations state "change the engine oil and filter after 'X' hours or annually, which ever comes first".

 

[fc3]

Further, how many of us know enough chemistry to tell from an oil analysis that the anti corrosion and anti foaming additives in the oil has broken down and is no longer functioning.

Is that a trick question?

And yes, analysis for a gas engine is more costly than an oil change since a gas engine only requires 5 to 7 quarts.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Back to being serious for a minute... but just for a minute:smt001

I've contemplated adding a by-pass filter to my truck for the purpose of not only preserving the quality of the oil over time, but to extend drain intervals (filters still need to be changed, though). But, my truck only takes 8 quarts so it's been low on the priority list. Plus, price of the by-pass system needs to be factored against how long it would take to re-coup the cost by saving oil changes.

Obviously, a comfort factor would need to be reached - starting with oil samples on a short interval. Some by-pass systems make it easier to take a sample as they have a port just for that purpose.

If I ever went this route, this is the one I would go with: http://www.fs2500.com/

 

[comsnark]

Even in cars, doesn't your manual say something like "3,000 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first"?

Not quite.

The people that sell you oil changes recommend 3,000 miles/3 monthes.

The people that sell you cars recommend 7,500 miles, with a new oil filter every other oil change. (this varies by manufacturer / model).

I have seen the same thing with jet ski's. The guy who sells me the $30/gal synthetic insists that I use the $30/gal synthetic. The mechanic that replaces engines says the type of oil doesn't matter.

When I did my first winterization. . I had one yard insist upon putting in "preservation oil" in the fall, with normal oil change done in spring.

 

[Lazy Daze]

Not quite.

The people that sell you oil changes recommend 3,000 miles/3 monthes.

The people that sell you cars recommend 7,500 miles, with a new oil filter every other oil change. (this varies by manufacturer / model).

I have seen the same thing with jet ski's. The guy who sells me the $30/gal synthetic insists that I use the $30/gal synthetic. The mechanic that replaces engines says the type of oil doesn't matter.

When I did my first winterization. . I had one yard insist upon putting in "preservation oil" in the fall, with normal oil change done in spring.

I realize that. I was simply making a point about changing oil not only based on mileage (or hours) but also on time.

"Preservation oil"? I guess you found at least one shop to not take your boat to! :wow:

 

[Turtlesboat]

New cars have computers in them that keeps track of how the car is being used and adjusts the oil life based on that. Before computers in cars were keeping track of this, you had to assume the worst case scenario and that was 3000 miles. In my boat, I idle out of the marina and then i'm pretty much using the boat at 3400rpms. That's a ton of work and a lot of heat.

 

[K-9]

:grin: taste the new oil and then the old used oil will taste like metal and burnt:wow:

 

[fwebster]

Dennis,

The factory oil filter is quite adequate as long as you change the oil at the recommended intervals. The thrust of the folks selling bypass filtration seems to go hand in hand with advocating extending the oil change interval which makes it a natural for the guys also selling synthetic engine oils. Since the cost of synthetics is significantly higher, getting you to add a bypass filter helps extend the oil life and reduce the cost per mile for the synthetic.

I bought a GMC truck that had an Amsoil "kit" on it........bypass filter and full synthetic lubricants. With oil sampling costing $25 + mail cost, I changed the truck back to Rotella T and removed the bypass filter.....which leaked anyway. Now, a lot of years and miles later, my 6.5 starts and runs fine and I've saved the cost and hassle of using special oils.......but I do service my truck regularly.

ANd, I don't have to worry about trapped moisture.

 

[fc3]

The guy who sells me the $30/gal synthetic insists that I use the $30/gal synthetic. The mechanic that replaces engines says the type of oil doesn't matter.

The thrust of the folks selling bypass filtration seems to go hand in hand with advocating extending the oil change interval which makes it a natural for the guys also selling synthetic engine oils.

Don't forget the vested interest of the guys who are selling engine replacements, too. Pick the right oil strategy that's least expensive over the long run. Odds are, it's going to be frequent oil and filter changes with a high quality oil.

Best regards,
Frank C

 

[Lazy Daze]

Frank & Frank,

I agree that a good, quality, main oil filter should suffice. However, I also don't doubt that a quality by-pass will filter the oil better. But, as you mentioned, it may not be worth the investment. Amsoil has a good unit, but ultimately it's up to whoever installs it, you know? Unless you're saying there was a defect?

With the FS2500, it is kinda "neat" seeing that black oil turn back to honey! Who knows what was done for "show" in the video, but after talking with numerous people about the FS, I am convinced it is not "snake oil". But, it's also about a $400 unit.

Back to boats...:smt001... I have not done oil sampling, yet, but I have heard it can be as inexpensive as $10 - $12. But, as correctly mentioned above, the diagnosis is coming after the fact. But, I suppose if you did an analysis with new oil, then half-way through the season, then at the end, and again at the beginning of the season... that should give a good representation. Fetch - if you do this, I'd be curious to see your results. Not that I would stop changing my oil, but it would certainly be interesting.

 

[fwebster]

The real benefit is to diesels because of the potential repair cost. Oil sampling gives you trapped metal content.......i.e. brass = bearings, ferrous metal = shaft, etc. wear....as well as chemical content for coolant, fuel by products, carbon, etc. which are wear or leak indicators.

The idea is to regularly sample oil so you can identify wear/leaks early enough to head off expensive repairs. The oil should be sampled at the same point in the maintenance cycle every time. It does no good to sample new oil one time and old oil ready to be changed the next. Most folks warm their engines, pull the oil sample then change the oil as a part of their normal maintenance.

I have a good friend who own a diesel repair service. Even thought they are a Cummins mid range dealer, their 4 service trucks are and the 3 guys who own the business all drive 6.5L GM turbo diesels. They change the oil/filter (Delco filters - Rotella T 15W40) at 3000-3500 miles. The lowest mileage truck of the 7 has 325K miles on it and, short of a few glow plugs, a few injectors and one pump (due to USLD) they have been trouble free. I don't need to know much more about extending oil change intervals.