Older Auto pilot and Axiom

[Atalla]

I think my issue is I have an in between AP from Raymarine. One where they were trying to force people to use there protocol. The ST800x systems seem to be better suited for this conversion even though an older system. The past two years all I have learned about RM is to stay away, even though they have nice features, Garmin really has it over Raymarine sorry to say.

Sorry for my previous post if it is irrelevant to what you were talking about. Although anyone with an SPX CC this will not work for you. Thank you Raymarine.

I tend to agree with the ridiculousness of it all. I’m sure it’s been discussed, but why not just TCP/IP? Competing on protocol is a garbage strategy. Compete on software and hardware.

 

[Irie308]

Yea, the more i play with Raymarine the more i like my Garmin. Have been struggling to get my old and new cameras to work on the Raymarine. The Garmin worked as described by their documentation.

 

[Atalla]

I can confirm @Irie308’s experience.

S2 Course Computer coupled with ST8002 autopilot head. ST8002 connected to S2 via ST and to an Axiom+ via a ST->STng converter connected to my STng backbone.

In this configuration, the Track feature of the ST8002 correctly steers the boat to each Waypoint in a plotted route on the Axiom. That is to say that you can replace a C or E series MFD with an Axiom and still get Autopilot capabilities without upgrading the course computer and head unit.

Note: In my stock setup, the ST8002 was powered via ST through my S2. The S2 was switched at my helm, meaning the Autopilot helm switch powered up/down the S2 and ST8002. Now that the ST8002 is connected to both ST and STng backbones, the head unit is always powered on as long as my batteries are online. It will throw a “No Pilot” error if the S2 is powered off. I may use one of my switch blanks to add a switch for the ST8002 just so it doesn’t stay powered up unnecessarily.

 

[Irie308]

What I also like about this setup is that i can send tracking data to the autopilot from my garmin or from the axiom.

 

[Atalla]

What I also like about this setup is that i can send tracking data to the autopilot from my garmin or from the axiom.

Did you have/solve the 'always on' issue?

I bought an extra STng cable today along with a new helm switch and am thinking of just cutting the two STng cables, splicing butt connecting the data wires and splicing the power through the switch so I can turn it off an on.

 

[Irie308]

I don't have that issue. My head unit and course computer are still controlled by the switch at the helm.

 

[Atalla]

I don't have that issue. My head unit and course computer are still controlled by the switch at the helm.

Weird. What did I do wrong? Literally as soon as I plug the ST to STng cable into the ST8002, it powers up. Has nothing to do with whether my course computer has power or not. Is getting power via the STng converter block.

 

[Skybolt]

Weird. What did I do wrong? Literally as soon as I plug the ST to STng cable into the ST8002, it powers up. Has nothing to do with whether my course computer has power or not. Is getting power via the STng converter block.

The whole system should be on a breaker. The CC, converter block etc. should be on an "autopilot" breaker. My N2K setup has many segments that get powered up according to what is in use. All on different breakers. Cutting the cable and putting a switch in isn't the right way to do that. JMO.

This is an example of what I am talking about: https://www.thehulltruth.com/11382347-post40.html

 

[Steve S]

Weird. What did I do wrong? Literally as soon as I plug the ST to STng cable into the ST8002, it powers up. Has nothing to do with whether my course computer has power or not. Is getting power via the STng converter block.

I think the ST8002 needs to go directly to the course computer Seatalk connectors, not to your Seatalk network. I think the course computer supplies power when it is switched on.

Your STNG network is probably getting power from the Axiom or some other source and that is what is powering the ST8002.

My RayPilot650 connects directly to the course computer, NOT the Seatalk network. All three wires (including the red power wire) are connected so the head gets power when I turn on the "Autopilot" switch. The second Seatalk connection on the course computer connects to the Seatalk network BUT the red wire is not connected from the course computer. That way when the course computer gets power, the Seatalk connection to the network becomes "live" and the CC sees the E140W for position data. The second Seatalk connection supplies data and power to the control head.

I have a copy of the commissioning booklet for the ST8002 if you need a copy. It shows various wiring options.

 

[Atalla]

@SKybolt @Steve S

Thanks. I am pretty sure I’m on the same page here. My connections from ST8002 to ST network via course computer all match Steve’s description (I do have the commissioning guide).

If I leave everything at that, the autopilot helm switch correctly functions, powering the CC and head.

But...my ST and STng backbones are bridged via the ST8002. As soon as the ST->STng cable goes into the ST8002, it gets power. No way to power it down except powering down my starboard battery. That’s what I’m trying to solve for.

 

[Skybolt]

@SKybolt @Steve S... But...my ST and STng backbones are bridged via the ST8002. As soon as the ST->STng cable goes into the ST8002, it gets power. No way to power it down except powering down my starboard battery. That’s what I’m trying to solve for.

Right, but isn't that converter only for the AP or is it for other things as well? If just for the AP, then put the converter on the AP breaker. The problem with putting a switch in the cable is that there isn't a terminating resistor in the ST8002 and it will load the rest of the network. If you power down the converter, that does have a terminating resistor in it and won't load the rest of the network. At least thats how it should work.

 

[Steve S]

@SKybolt @Steve S

Thanks. I am pretty sure I’m on the same page here. My connections from ST8002 to ST network via course computer all match Steve’s description (I do have the commissioning guide).

If I leave everything at that, the autopilot helm switch correctly functions, powering the CC and head.

But...my ST and STng backbones are bridged via the ST8002. As soon as the ST->STng cable goes into the ST8002, it gets power. No way to power it down except powering down my starboard battery. That’s what I’m trying to solve for.

My ST/STNG is separate for my Ray240 VHF, Raystar 125 GPS unit and my E140W. It was separate power.

I believe the Axiom supplies power to the STNG network side. Try disconnecting the Axiom and see if the power issue goes away. Otherwise somewhere else in the network you have a power cable connected.

Here is how I think it should be connected. CC ST#1 all three wires. CC ST#2 - only Yellow and black...

 

[Atalla]

I guess I just need to move the ST->STng bridge elsewhere. Don’t have any spare ST ports or blocks open on anything. Just use a terminal block?

My ST/STNG is separate for my Ray240 VHF, Raystar 125 GPS unit and my E140W. It was separate power.

I believe the Axiom supplies power to the STNG network side. Try disconnecting the Axiom and see if the power issue goes away. Otherwise somewhere else in the network you have a power cable connected.

Here is how I think it should be connected. CC ST#1 all three wires. CC ST#2 - only Yellow and black...

View attachment 96426

Thanks, yes, I expect you are correct. I just need to return the ST8002 to be a spoke on the ST network vs being inline as the bridge between the two.

Just have to figure out a way to get the CC to bridge to the STng network directly as I don’t have any open ports/blocks on it.

 

[Steve S]

I guess I just need to move the ST->STng bridge elsewhere. Don’t have any spare ST ports or blocks open on anything. Just use a terminal block?


Thanks, yes, I expect you are correct. I just need to return the ST8002 to be a spoke on the ST network vs being inline as the bridge between the two.

Just have to figure out a way to get the CC to bridge to the STng network directly as I don’t have any open ports/blocks on it.

My 400 actually has 2 E22158 ST1/STNG converter blocks daisy chained together along with one of the ST1 three connector hubs patchworked together to make the system function. That’s because Raymarine only allows a single ST1 connection in each E22158 converter but it has room for two STNG connections and two STNG backbone connections.

 

[Atalla]

My 400 actually has 2 E22158 ST1/STNG converter blocks daisy chained together along with one of the ST1 three connector hubs patchworked together to make the system function. That’s because Raymarine only allows a single ST1 connection in each E22158 converter but it has room for two STNG connections and two STNG backbone connections.

Same. I need one of the hubs to get this setup right, I think.

 

[Steve S]

Same. I need one of the hubs to get this setup right, I think.

If you look at the picture I posted back in #56, You will see the old ST1 block in the lower left corner. It has the connection for the Ray240 VHF, the data only for the course computer and the black w/white stripe cable running to the E22158 adapter connecting to the STNG network.

 

[Atalla]

If you look at the picture I posted back in #56, You will see the old ST1 block in the lower left corner. It has the connection for the Ray240 VHF, the data only for the course computer and the black w/white stripe cable running to the E22158 adapter connecting to the STNG network.

Thanks. My ST backbone is via a terminal block that has the Raystar 125 and S2 course computer into it (minus the power wire for the latter). I'm just going to take a ST->STng spur cable, cut the ST plug off the end and run it from my ST/STng converter block to the ST backbone terminal block. That should bridge the ST/STng networks while leaving the ST8002 as a leaf node off the course computer. I should be able to just connect the yellow wire, I think, and all should be well.

 

[Atalla]

Ok. Something’s not right. Here’s where I am. If I hook a ST->STng cable directly to my ST8002, waypoint data is carried to it from the Axiom correctly. To get the power setup correct, I switched to running the ST->STng cable from the converter to my ST backbone terminal block. In this setup, I am not getting waypoint data to the ST8002.

S2 course computer. First ST connection goes to the ST8002 and the second goes minus power to the terminal block.

The terminal block. Top connections with the black/white shielding is the ST-STng cable heading to the converter. You can see the connection from the S2 on the bottom with the missing power.

Ignore the DSM. You can see the two STng 5-way block on the right which is my STng backbone and the converter block daisy chained on the left. The black/white cable on the left heads back to that ST terminal block.

In my head, ST and STng should be talking in this setup but they do not appear to be.

 

[Steve S]

Ok. Something’s not right. Here’s where I am. If I hook a ST->STng cable directly to my ST8002, waypoint data is carried to it from the Axiom correctly. To get the power setup correct, I switched to running the ST->STng cable from the converter to my ST backbone terminal block. In this setup, I am not getting waypoint data to the ST8002.

View attachment 96491
S2 course computer. First ST connection goes to the ST8002 and the second goes minus power to the terminal block.
View attachment 96492
The terminal block. Top connections with the black/white shielding is the ST-STng cable heading to the converter. You can see the connection from the S2 on the bottom with the missing power.
View attachment 96493
Ignore the DSM. You can see the two STng 5-way block on the right which is my STng backbone and the converter block daisy chained on the left. The black/white cable on the left heads back to that ST terminal block.

In my head, ST and STng should be talking in this setup but they do not appear to be.

Ok the converter on the right in the last picture. Top cable in blue is the Daisy chain to the converter on the left. What is the black and white cable near the bottom? Is that an E22158 converter or a STNG 5 way block?

If I understand correctly, STNG signal must be Daisy chained through the end blue connectors. The middle connectors are for Spurs to hook up devices only.

There is nothing in the bottom blue connector...

 

[Atalla]

Ok the converter on the right in the last picture. Top cable in blue is the Daisy chain to the converter on the left. What is the black and white cable near the bottom? Is that an E22158 converter or a STNG 5 way block?

If I understand correctly, STNG signal must be Daisy chained through the end blue connectors. The middle connectors are for Spurs to hook up devices only.

There is nothing in the bottom blue connector...

The block on the right is a STng 5 way. The black and white cable in the 4th slot down goes into that NMEA block strapped on top and connects out to the Mercury VV black box. The 2nd slot goes to the Axiom and the middle is power.

Bottom slot is terminated and top blue/black goes to the E22158 on the left.