Older Auto pilot and Axiom

[Irie308]

I'm slowly updating my electronics and recently installed an Axiom 12 MFD. I'm trying to get whatever use i can out of the existing autopilot for now (Raymarine S2G and ST70001). I've read that its possible to have the Axiom control the autopilot via Tracking mode however i can't seem to get it to work. Currently using a nmea 0183 gate way to nmea 2k. I'm able to see all of the legacy equipment except for the autopilot (tridata, heading sensor, vhf, depth).
Has anyone done a similar setup with Axiom and older autopilot?

 

[Henry Boyd]

I replaced the S3G on our boat because it would work, but be kludgey. Not good news, but that's an entirely different setup than you have. There is an extremely detailed FAQ on the Raymarine support forum about matching up legacy APs with newer displays. RM discontinued and locked the forum to new posts this past spring, but have kept it up as an archive. If you have not looked at these documents you should.

I will also say the AP control with Axion interface is heads and shoulders above the E120W ST70002 interface it replaced.

 

[dtfeld]

The book answer is you should be able to get that system to track and follow a heading. But you can not control the autopilot from the axiom display (autopilot controls not activated). So you have to pull up a route/fix on the axiom, then engage the autopilot from the ST7001. Henry called it kludgy...that’s an understatement.

I could never get mine to work very well, and I just upgraded to the Evolution (Raymarine had a nice rebate and BOE added a good bit more making a very attractive price). I purchased the ACU-150/EV-1/p70Rs system pack (no pump). It works flawlessly!

Now I can touch a point/route and engage the autopilot right on the Axiom. Boat will follow a route and stay within 10’ of the centerline.

The only thing I’m trying to decide is if I’m going to keep the p70Rs control head, it’s not really necessary and may put a 9” axiom in front of me for that function.

 

[Steve S]

The book answer is you should be able to get that system to track and follow a heading. But you can not control the autopilot from the axiom display (autopilot controls not activated). So you have to pull up a route/fix on the axiom, then engage the autopilot from the ST7001. Henry called it kludgy...that’s an understatement.

I could never get mine to work very well, and I just upgraded to the Evolution (Raymarine had a nice rebate and BOE added a good bit more making a very attractive price). I purchased the ACU-150/EV-1/p70Rs system pack (no pump). It works flawlessly!

Now I can touch a point/route and engage the autopilot right on the Axiom. Boat will follow a route and stay within 10’ of the centerline.

The only thing I’m trying to decide is if I’m going to keep the p70Rs control head, it’s not really necessary and may put a 9” axiom in front of me for that function.

What did system did you replace? Thinking about the same thing replacing my RayPilot 650 system.

 

[dtfeld]

Type 100/ ST7000. It was a really easy job. Maybe a couple hour job depending on how you have to run the network cables. p70Rs fits in the same cutout as the ST7000. EV-1 can be mounted in the same location as the existing heading sensor, and the ACU wiring is pretty much identical.

 

[Steve S]

Thanks. I have a Type 100 / RayPilot 650. I have looked at the schematic and saw the connections were similar. I just need to figure out where my fluxgate compass it located.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I replaced our AP with the EV2. That’s the Volvo IPS version. The p70rs is mostly redundant, although it’s handy for locking in a straight line point of sail for tasks that require stepping away from the helm for a moment.

 

[Irie308]

I’m actually looking to move to full Garmin setup. Only using the axiom now for radar. When I replace autopilot it will be for a garmin unit. Looks as if I need a nema 0183 gateway.

 

[dtfeld]

Thanks. I have a Type 100 / RayPilot 650. I have looked at the schematic and saw the connections were similar. I just need to figure out where my fluxgate compass it located.

If you have any floor hatches covering the center bilge, start there. For the most part, SR did a good job locating this piece of equipment as far from anything that would affect the compass. I had to design/run a longer SeaTalkNG backbone and use a long spur cable to get to it.

Current Raymarine SeaTalkNG.

 

[Henry Boyd]

If you have any floor hatches covering the center bilge, start there. For the most part, SR did a good job locating this piece of equipment as far from anything that would affect the compass. I had to design/run a longer SeaTalkNG backbone and use a long spur cable to get to it.

Current Raymarine SeaTalkNG.


View attachment 95607

Looking at your diagram I have a couple questions. You seem to use a nmea/STNG converter to connect a Nmea0183 ICOM device (DSC VHF?) to the STNG network. Is my assumption accurate? And does this bypass the power cord connection?

You also have an ST60 device also using a converter. Does that have full functionality?

Finally what software did you use to make your diagram (as well as the neat little RM icons)? I had to resort to a flowchart package and manual highlighting.

 

[dtfeld]

I’m actually looking to move to full Garmin setup. Only using the axiom now for radar. When I replace autopilot it will be for a garmin unit. Looks as if I need a nema 0183 gateway.

I'm not following what the NEMA 0183 Gateway will accomplish. You already have 2 NEMA0183 inputs/outputs available from your autopilot controller, so no need to spend $$ for that. Do you have a rough sketch of what your current electronics and connections?

 

[Henry Boyd]

I’m actually looking to move to full Garmin setup. Only using the axiom now for radar. When I replace autopilot it will be for a garmin unit. Looks as if I need a nema 0183 gateway.

Have you priced the difference between Garmin and Raymarine autopilots? I looked seriously at doing a Garmin conversion last year when I started planning our electronics upgrade. However the Garmin autopilot was nearly three times the cost of the Raymarine. Something that I found odd as Garmin builds the Volvo Glass Helm electronics. Glass Helm are stock Garmin devices with customized software integrating with the Volvo EVC engine/drive management system.

 

[dtfeld]

Looking at your diagram I have a couple questions. You seem to use a nmea/STNG converter to connect a Nmea0183 ICOM device (DSC VHF?) to the STNG network. Is my assumption accurate? And does this bypass the power cord connection?

You also have an ST60 device also using a converter. Does that have full functionality?

Finally what software did you use to make your diagram (as well as the neat little RM icons)? I had to resort to a flowchart package and manual highlighting.

Henry:

Everything done with Powerpoint and Excel. I find pictures of what I want online and insert and then use drawing tools.

I have 2 Raymarine Converters in my system. The SeaTalkNG -> NEMA0183 and a SeaTalkNG -> SeaTalk1. All of this is powered from a single 12 VDC power input that powers the entire SeaTalkNG network.

The SeaTalkNG -> NEMA 0183 is there solely to pass GPS data (position but I think it also passes COG and SOG) to the Icom IC-400BB VHF. This converter is unidirectional, (ie data only passes from the network to the VHF). If you have a MMSI# programmed into your VHF, and press the distress button, that data is also transmitted.

The SeaTalkNG -> SeaTalk1 converter gets Speed/Temp/Depth from the ST60 Tridata instrument and is (now) fully functional after replacing the ST800 transducer.. The ST60 has 2 analog transducers, speed/temp (ST800) and a depth transducer (D800). This passes all data from that instrument onto the SeaTalkNG network, and since I have the SeaTalkNG connected to the NEMA2000 network (SeaTalkNG is just RM proprietary N2K, and really only different 5 pin connectors), all that data is available on both networks to anything attached. The converter comes with a cord that has the 3 pin SeaTalk1 that plugs into the back of the ST 60, the other into a SeaTalkNG port.

Here's the Transducer Slide...

 

[Henry Boyd]

Henry:

Everything done with Powerpoint and Excel. I find pictures of what I want online and insert and then use drawing tools.

That's above my pay grade, I'm still pencil and paper oriented.

I have 2 Raymarine Converters in my system. The SeaTalkNG -> NEMA0183 and a SeaTalkNG -> SeaTalk1. All of this is powered from a single 12 VDC power input that powers the entire SeaTalkNG network.

Are these converters the same part with dual function, or specific to function ST1 to STNG either or NMEA0183 to STNG?

The SeaTalkNG -> NEMA 0183 is there solely to pass GPS data (position but I think it also passes COG and SOG) to the Icom IC-400BB VHF. This converter is unidirectional, (ie data only passes from the network to the VHF). If you have a MMSI# programmed into your VHF, and press the distress button, that data is also transmitted.

Right, On the Axiom Pro 12 RVX we have, nmea0183 GPS data is passed between the mfd and vhf via hardwiring in the Axion powercord. Is it the Same for the your Axioms? Will a STNG/nmea0183 converter support more than one NMEA source? The reason I ask is that I have redundant VHFs. Fortunately I have two Axioms with port VHF going to Port Axiom and Starboard to Starboard. I also have a left over ST1 to STNG converter and using it to pass the GPS data from the Axioms might be more consistent architecture.

The SeaTalkNG -> SeaTalk1 converter gets Speed/Temp/Depth from the ST60 Tridata instrument and is (now) fully functional after replacing the ST800 transducer.. The ST60 has 2 analog transducers, speed/temp (ST800) and a depth transducer (D800). This passes all data from that instrument onto the SeaTalkNG network, and since I have the SeaTalkNG connected to the NEMA2000 network (SeaTalkNG is just RM proprietary N2K, and really only different 5 pin connectors), all that data is available on both networks to anything attached. The converter comes with a cord that has the 3 pin SeaTalk1 that plugs into the back of the ST 60, the other into a SeaTalkNG port.

Here's the Transducer Slide...

Ah, ST60 still works because it has its own legacy transducers it is getting depth and speed data from.

View attachment 95625

 

[Irie308]

I'm not following what the NEMA 0183 Gateway will accomplish. You already have 2 NEMA0183 inputs/outputs available from your autopilot controller, so no need to spend $$ for that. Do you have a rough sketch of what your current electronics and connections?

That’s the problem. I don’t see a way to interface the axiom to the smart pilot directly via NMEA 0183 without going through the raynet network.

 

[Steve S]

If you have any floor hatches covering the center bilge, start there. For the most part, SR did a good job locating this piece of equipment as far from anything that would affect the compass. I had to design/run a longer SeaTalkNG backbone and use a long spur cable to get to it.

Current Raymarine SeaTalkNG.


View attachment 95607

Dave,

So you placed the EV-1 down in your engine room? I will need to look for my fluxgate compass the next time I am at the boat.I do have several hatches on centerline - one the forward stateroom, a deep one in the galley and then my engine room is accessible from the salon.

 

[dtfeld]

@Henry Boyd

The Raymarine converters are single function (i verified that by trying to get NEMA 0183 out of the SeaTalk1 converter...no joy) and separate part numbers.

I forgot Axiom Pros have NEMA0183 output in the power cord. My Axiom (non Pro) does not have NEMA-0183 in the power cord. I could not fit the Axiom Pro...just a little too wide, hence I required the converter.

As for the NEMA 0183 converter supporting more than 1 "source", to my knowledge, this is a 1 way device (SeaTalkNG --> NEMA 0183, and from what I recall recall of the documentation, it would only support 1 NEMA 0183 device, and that device would need to be a "listener". However, you could try it. NEMA0183 can have multiple "Talkers" and "Listeners".

The only value to the SeaTalk1->SeaTalkNG converter would be if you have any legacy SeaTalk 1 instruments/autopilots. I kept mine for now as the Airmar NEMA 2000 DST800 (Depth Speed and Temp) have reported quality issues. If they fix those issues, I'll put that transducer on the N2K network and will no longer need the ST60 or either of the transducers.

 

[dtfeld]

That’s the problem. I don’t see a way to interface the axiom to the smart pilot directly via NMEA 0183 without going through the raynet network.

You would need a SeaTalk1 --> SeaTalkNG Converter in your network

That’s the problem. I don’t see a way to interface the axiom to the smart pilot directly via NMEA 0183 without going through the raynet network.

Adding the SeaTalk1 -> SeaTalkNG converter should get you what you want for now...see below. You probably already have a lot of this wiring installed.

However after adding the Evolution I couldn't be happier and the price was right, bought on sale so was only about 1 BB (boat buck). Set up is a breeze and it just works.

 

[dtfeld]

Dave,

So you placed the EV-1 down in your engine room? I will need to look for my fluxgate compass the next time I am at the boat.I do have several hatches on centerline - one the forward stateroom, a deep one in the galley and then my engine room is accessible from the salon.

No, the EV1 is in my center bilge about midship under the sole...same place the old fluxgate compass resided. Engine room is a BAD BAD place for a magnetic compass!!!

 

[Irie308]

You would need a SeaTalk1 --> SeaTalkNG Converter in your network


Adding the SeaTalk1 -> SeaTalkNG converter should get you what you want for now...see below. You probably already have a lot of this wiring installed.

However after adding the Evolution I couldn't be happier and the price was right, bought on sale so was only about 1 BB (boat buck). Set up is a breeze and it just works.

View attachment 95642

Thanks

You would need a SeaTalk1 --> SeaTalkNG Converter in your network


Adding the SeaTalk1 -> SeaTalkNG converter should get you what you want for now...see below. You probably already have a lot of this wiring installed.

However after adding the Evolution I couldn't be happier and the price was right, bought on sale so was only about 1 BB (boat buck). Set up is a breeze and it just works.

View attachment 95642

will check this out. Are you running a similar setup? If so what’s the usability of the autopilot? Does it only follow if you place it in track mode from the head unit?