OFFICIAL - 450DA Owner's Thread****

[Maybe A Dancer]

While working on the salon floor hatch trim yesterday (during TS Nicole, I might add - yes, I'm obsessed) I poked around in my fwd hatch/access/thruster area.

The bow & stern thrusters were installed about 6 years ago, by a yard in Marina Del Rey, CA.

Here's what I found on my vessel:

• thruster tube passes through the forward section of the locker
• two group 24 (who knows how old-they're on my list) batteries are located in the aft part of this locker
• I can take a flashlight and look straight down into the area beside that tube - presumably looking directly into the top of the keel. This area appears to be unfinished, I am guessing the floor of this locker area was removed to install the thruster & tube.
• The battery charger is mounted inside this locker - on the forward wall of the locker, facing aft.

I don't see a pathway for the FWD HVAC condensate to get into this area

• Is the keel open?
• Would the keel allow water to travel fwd/aft? (my 10 meter was designed with that feature, but that hull featured a full gel coated liner. The fwd bilge connected to the aft bilge UNDER the liner. The engine room was not included)
• Can water pass from the anchor locker, under the FWD berth and get into that area?

I'm planning on replacing those two batteries of unknown age this spring. If I was a brave soul, I might consider replicating your 4" inspection bungs, but I'm not sure if I am THAT brave.

Following this topic very closely.

Also, and unrelated, thinking about relocating that battery charger into the now expanded stbd fwd closet, or at the very least, adding a battery monitor as currently that entire system is out of sight/out of mind.

BEST !

RWS

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Hey,

Just for fun (FUN ???) when I change out those batteries this spring, I'll take that TRAMEX moisture meter to that locker and see what it shows.

 

[ttmott]

Hey,

Just for fun (FUN ???) when I change out those batteries this spring, I'll take that TRAMEX moisture meter to that locker and see what it shows.

As an engineer, I can tell you that data is bad and a lot of data is catastrophic.

 

[DowneastSeaRay]

Joe,

We have had about 20% of the 48DA's. 48DB's, 45EB's, 50DA's and 52DA's that The dealer didn't spec the boat to have bow thrusters installed at the factory as the boat was built get leaks in that area. The problem seemed to be poor fiberglass work when the thruster tube was installed at the marina as a contractor installed the bow thruster in the boat yard at the marina.

The leak was spotted when the boat was lifted and blocked up in the yard with the stern higher than the bow. The holes appeared to be about the size of a pin head where th e gelcoatt was sanded too thin over the point where the thruster tube mated to the hull.

As distasteful as the prospect seems the starting point is to either taste the water in the boat or test it with a pool salt analyer. If it is salt water the source is narrowed down to below the waterline…….if it is freshwater is quickly narrowed down to rainwater , potable water from the water tank and plumbing systems or washwater.

Good luck with it ………..

Frank.

Morning Frank!
As of today, the bilge is dry and clean after being in the water for a few weeks and going through the recent storm (Nicole). So, I don't think it was sea water coming through the hull, or a rain leak (unless it's really old). The fiberglass guy said it looked old and "stagnant". He said, in his experience, sea water leaves salt residue as it evaporates - which wasn't present. So, I'm leaning towards old rain intrusion or plumbing. When I purchased the boat 3 years ago, it had a brand new (0 hour) set of canvas. Maybe that was after a leak? The water didn't stink - so likely not black water. We don't use the plumbing too often - so I'll have to dig into that when I'm back in FL.
So, as of now, we removed the mystery water, replaced the wet stringer and added some inspection ports to keep an eye on it. Hopefully, the story will end there. Oh please story - end there!

 

[The Bill Collector]

Morning Frank!
As of today, the bilge is dry and clean after being in the water for a few weeks and going through the recent storm (Nicole). So, I don't think it was sea water coming through the hull, or a rain leak (unless it's really old). The fiberglass guy said it looked old and "stagnant". He said, in his experience, sea water leaves salt residue as it evaporates - which wasn't present. So, I'm leaning towards old rain intrusion or plumbing. When I purchased the boat 3 years ago, it had a brand new (0 hour) set of canvas. Maybe that was after a leak? The water didn't stink - so likely not black water. We don't use the plumbing too often - so I'll have to dig into that when I'm back in FL.
So, as of now, we removed the mystery water, replaced the wet stringer and added some inspection ports to keep an eye on it. Hopefully, the story will end there. Oh please story - end there!

I have replaced 90% of the fresh water fittings on our boat due to them leaking...

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Well boys, it's sump restoration weekend !

Replacing cracked top, adding inspection ports, cleaning and adding redundancy for the bilge pump switch.

Also will be identifying/labeling all the lines.

There is a line feeding directly to the fwd engine room bilge:

Can someone please tell me if this line is a sump overflow ?

Is there a sump overflow?

It appears to me that this line comes directly from the FWD HVAC drain into the fwd engine room bilge, but I cannot confirm.

I'm hoping it's a sump overflow.

I see this line in every 450 engine room photo posted here.

This is a 1996 450 Dancer with galley to port.

BEST !

RWS

 

[ttmott]

Well boys, it's sump restoration weekend !

Replacing cracked top, adding inspection ports, cleaning and adding redundancy for the bilge pump switch.

Also will be identifying/labeling all the lines.

There is a line feeding directly to the fwd engine room bilge:

View attachment 137626
Can someone please tell me if this line is a sump overflow ?

Is there a sump overflow?

It appears to me that this line comes directly from the FWD HVAC drain into the fwd engine room bilge, but I cannot confirm.

I'm hoping it's a sump overflow.

I see this line in every 450 engine room photo posted here.

This is a 1996 450 Dancer with galley to port.

BEST !

RWS

Yup - sump overflow. On mine if we are in rough water the sump box sloshes and will spill into that overflow line then into the forward bilge. I occasionally get a pump alarm on that bilge area which is normally dry.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

OK

Here's my supposition:

1. both HVAC drain pans are plumbed into the sump - and both also have an overflow which I have not yet traced down.
2. The sump has it's own overflow as pictured above.

Am I correct?

 

[ttmott]

OK

Here's my supposition:

1. both HVAC drain pans are plumbed into the sump - and both also have an overflow which I have not yet traced down.
2. The sump has it's own overflow as pictured above.

Am I correct?

On the HVAC there is a condensate drain which drains the condensate from the HVAC drain pan to the sump box. I've never seen an "overflow" for those. My boat has a drain in the depressed floor area where the solon HVAC unit is installed which I suppose would be an "overflow"; that drain connects to the boat's common drain system to overboard... The other units are installed in areas where any overflow would naturally run into some below deck area. But there are no dedicated overflow hoses on the HVAC drain pans.

 

[fwebster]

I think the line leading into the bilge from the port side front corner of the bilge area is a condensate drain line for the refrigerator and freezer.

I have a "thing" about wet bilges so I added Mermaid Condensatror removal devices the salon and fwd air conditioner drain pansn on my '96 450DA soon after I took ownership.

 

[The Bill Collector]

I have a sump pump under the aft stateroom bed where fresh water pump 1&2 are located. I always thought that was the line coming into the forward ER sump??

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

I believe the plumbing is different on the galley to port vs galley to stbd.

I backwashed all the sump lines today with the hose, and have identified all.

Will post photo after labels have been installed.

BEST !

RWS

 

[Chris L]

I think the line leading into the bilge from the port side front corner of the bilge area is a condensate drain line for the refrigerator and freezer.

I have a "thing" about wet bilges so I added Mermaid Condensatror removal devices the salon and fwd air conditioner drain pansn on my '96 450DA soon after I took ownership.

DISREGARD. Found the instructions online. Simply a matter of plumbing the device into the sea water intake of the A/C unit...

Interesting device. Can you elaborate on how you plumped the Mermaid? Thank you

 

[Saverio]

I'm looking to replace some of my thru hulls over the winter. Does anyone know the bilge hose size and A/C?

 

[Skybolt]

I'm looking to replace some of my thru hulls over the winter. Does anyone know the bilge hose size and A/C?

Typically it's 3/4" but I would replace it with a 1" thru-hull and just change the barb in the strainer. I changed mine to 1" all the way to the pump and it made a huge difference in the water flow.

 

[fwebster]

You need to go measure the hoses. Your boat is a 1995 and Sea Ray had a habit of changing a lot of stuff like thru hull locations and hose sizes after the first year's production. I don't know if the 450DA was oone of those with many changes but I know there were some. On the 1996 the bilge hoses and A/C sea water hose internal diameters were 5/8".

Also, Sea Ray starterd using an adhesive sealer on thru hulls at least in the 1996 model year that makes thru hulls dang near impossible to remove without extraordinary measures. If your have that sealant, forget the notion of unscrewing the jam nut and pullling the thru hull out with a pair of pliers.

Do yourself a favor and start on one that is easy to access on both the inside and otside of the hull. Good Luck!

 

[The Bill Collector]

You need to go measure the hoses. Your boat is a 1995 and Sea Ray had a habit of changing a lot of stuff like thru hull locations and hose sizes after the first year's production. I don't know if the 450DA was oone of those with many changes but I know there were some. On the 1996 the bilge hoses and A/C sea water hose internal diameters were 5/8".

Also, Sea Ray starterd using an adhesive sealer on thru hulls at least in the 1996 model year that makes thru hulls dang near impossible to remove without extraordinary measures. If your have that sealant, forget the notion of unscrewing the jam nut and pullling the thru hull out with a pair of pliers.

Do yourself a favor and start on one that is easy to access on both the inside and otside of the hull. Good Luck!

I recall asking your advice when I was considering swapping out my thru-hulls... Something very similar as above and if it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind.

 

[Saverio]

I wanted to replace my A/C one to start. for some reason I have one discharge by Port stern. I'm not sure what you call this type of thru hull. Its a 90degree with a valve on it. In my past I use to pump A/F through the discharge to winterize. I cant do it with the 90 valve.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Here's an update on the sump reconditioning on a 450 DA GALLEY TO PORT.

At the time of purchase, the factory lid was found to be cracked.

No big deal, the sump was working fine and after a load of pine sol the minimal odor was gone.

Fast forward through nearly a year of catch-up maintenance in other, more critical areas and we get a moment to look things over.

Ordered a 1/2" clear panel - twice the thickness of the factory version and followed the example of Dr. Webster and others here by adding two cleanouts.

New collapsible weatherstrip around the mating surface, and replaced the factory pump with new, and renewed all the silicone seals, as I had damaged the discharge tube seal by disturbing the pump.

Then I went in a different direction.

Heard a lot of good things about the ULTRA bilge pump switches.

Since the demise of mercury float switches I've experienced a decreased life span in my applications, so I thought I'd give this brand a whirl as although pricey, they come highly recommended and I love the concept.

After seeing this one in action, i'll likely be replacing all the others as I continue doing my upgrades.

Will likely be the last bilge pump switches I ever replace.

So, anyway this particular model also has high water alarm leads built into it.

Since the factory switch still worked, I chose to leave it in the sump as a backup - didn't want to remove the screw either. It's now wired into the system.

After sucking 2" of sludge from the low side of the sump and a bleach treatment I installed the new pump and the new ULTRA switch on the low side of the sump.

This works beautifully, and results in a far lower water level in the sump.

Also, I used a garden hose to backflush the debris from each inlet/outlet and labeled them for future reference.

Remember these labels apply only to the GALLEY TO PORT model.

I'm very happy with the results. Photos below.

BEST !

RWS

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Lead boat in the www.puntagordaboatparade.com

link fixed:

Punta Gorda boat parade 2022 - YouTube


MERRY CHRISTMAS !

RWS