OFFICIAL - 450DA Owner's Thread****

did you ever find out was caused it???
Hello all,

Have owned a 1999 450DA for 12 yrs and she's been flawless (up until now). Bilges always dry, solid decks, no evidence of leaks, flawless engines, etc. Last survey (for reference) was done 5 yrs ago for insurance purposes and passed with flying colors. No issues until today.

Just put her on the hard for the winter and was busy cleaning her. Opened the large hatch in the cabin sole in order to clean out the gray water sump when I discovered the floor was cracked pretty severely. In addition, the section where the cracks were was raised (swollen). When I lifted a cracked section of the flooring, I found the underlying wood structure to be quite wet to the touch.

Trying to figure out what thee cause of this is. At first I thought a leaking sump, but the flooring in the whole area is dry to the touch, saw no evidence of standing water, water staining or the foul odor that accompanies a leaking sump. I even went as far as disabling the bilge pump and filling the sump with water, but I found it not to be leaking. Also no evidence of water on the stringers in that compartment (no stains, etc.).

I usually have miscellaneous stuff stored there that covers the floor so I can't really say how long this has been going on. Ironically, all the stuff stored there is also dry, which makes me wonder where the water is coming from. Its obviously coming from outside the compartment, probably the area between the stringers and hull.

Looking for advice from the collective hive to try and figure out what's causing this as I can't find any evidence that water has leaked into that space from above or from the sump. Also concerned as to how that wet floor will affect the integrity of the boat both short and long term.


UPDATE: Went back to the boat with a friend who has a skipper moisture meter. The floor as well as the stringers pegged the meter. The stringers in the compartment just forward also pegged the meter, although the floor there did not. Might be time to drill a few inspection holes in the stringers and see what shows up. Since there are no limber holes in either compartment, I can't check to see what, if anything, is between the stringers and the hull.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Pic of the floor (looking down) showing the cracked flooring and a section of flooring that I pulled up which revealed the wet subfloor
 
did you ever find out was caused it???

Yes and No. Drilled a hole to view the hull and found it full of fresh water. That narrows it down a bit. Obviously, there's a leak somewhere. She's on the hard for the winter, so I'll have to wait until spring to find the leak. In the interim, I will be rebedding every piece of hardware and potential water intrusion point as its due to be done anyway. Going to have to wait until Spring commissioning to see if its any of the boat's systems (AC/refrigerator condensate, fresh water system, etc.).

The joys of boat ownership
 
Yes and No. Drilled a hole to view the hull and found it full of fresh water. That narrows it down a bit. Obviously, there's a leak somewhere. She's on the hard for the winter, so I'll have to wait until spring to find the leak. In the interim, I will be rebedding every piece of hardware and potential water intrusion point as its due to be done anyway. Going to have to wait until Spring commissioning to see if its any of the boat's systems (AC/refrigerator condensate, fresh water system, etc.).

The joys of boat ownership
I have replaced 99% of my fresh water fittings as they were all starting to fail and the the check valve on gray water sump box failed too.
 
I have replaced 99% of my fresh water fittings as they were all starting to fail and the the check valve on gray water sump box failed too.

Yup. Strongly considering repiping the whole system with Uponor (wirsbo) fittings. Already have the expander tool and plenty of pex tubing/fittings from when I redid my entire house... Love the stuff and from what I have been told the fitting actually seal better and stronger as time goes by..
 
Yes and No. Drilled a hole to view the hull and found it full of fresh water. That narrows it down a bit. Obviously, there's a leak somewhere. She's on the hard for the winter, so I'll have to wait until spring to find the leak. In the interim, I will be rebedding every piece of hardware and potential water intrusion point as its due to be done anyway. Going to have to wait until Spring commissioning to see if its any of the boat's systems (AC/refrigerator condensate, fresh water system, etc.).

The joys of boat ownership

GREAT NEWS that it's fresh water

Hope you can get her dried out before the freeze.

BEST !

RWS
 
Yes and No. Drilled a hole to view the hull and found it full of fresh water. That narrows it down a bit. Obviously, there's a leak somewhere. She's on the hard for the winter, so I'll have to wait until spring to find the leak. In the interim, I will be rebedding every piece of hardware and potential water intrusion point as its due to be done anyway. Going to have to wait until Spring commissioning to see if its any of the boat's systems (AC/refrigerator condensate, fresh water system, etc.).

The joys of boat ownership
thats great news..
where did you drill a hole?
any pictures?
thanks
 
thats great news..
where did you drill a hole?
any pictures?
thanks

Sorry, didn't take pics. Drilled a 1" hole in the salon sole in the floor of the small compartment that the grey water/shower sump pump is located. Drilled it directly in front of the shower sump pump. That allowed me to view the bottom/keel of the boat. It was full of fresh water. Expanded the hole to 3" and used a wet vac to remove the water. Also drilled another hole on the opposite end to allow for more ventilation. Now have a small fan and a dehumidifier that will run all winter to (hopefully) dry out the space and wood...
 
On my "LIST" down the road I'll rebuild the sea strainers to reduce risks, as discussed by Tom Mott.

For the moment, I do need to replace one of the engine intake strainer baskets.

Does anyone know the part number for strainer or the basket itself?

BEST !

RWS
 
The standard OEM engine strainers on 1996 450DA's w/Caterpillar engines were Groco ARG-2000, 2" bronze strainers. Here is a link to the GROCO data sheet for the ARG series:

https://www.groco.net/products/raw-water-strainers/basket-strainer/arg-series

Click on the download button in the upper right corner………..

Oh, and the part number for a replacement stainless steel basket is "BS-8". Be careful, they also now list a plastic basket that I suspect has a pretty short life span in a place with hard growth.
 
Hello all,

Have owned a 1999 450DA for 12 yrs and she's been flawless (up until now). Bilges always dry, solid decks, no evidence of leaks, flawless engines, etc. Last survey (for reference) was done 5 yrs ago for insurance purposes and passed with flying colors. No issues until today.

Just put her on the hard for the winter and was busy cleaning her. Opened the large hatch in the cabin sole in order to clean out the gray water sump when I discovered the floor was cracked pretty severely. In addition, the section where the cracks were was raised (swollen). When I lifted a cracked section of the flooring, I found the underlying wood structure to be quite wet to the touch.

Trying to figure out what thee cause of this is. At first I thought a leaking sump, but the flooring in the whole area is dry to the touch, saw no evidence of standing water, water staining or the foul odor that accompanies a leaking sump. I even went as far as disabling the bilge pump and filling the sump with water, but I found it not to be leaking. Also no evidence of water on the stringers in that compartment (no stains, etc.).

I usually have miscellaneous stuff stored there that covers the floor so I can't really say how long this has been going on. Ironically, all the stuff stored there is also dry, which makes me wonder where the water is coming from. Its obviously coming from outside the compartment, probably the area between the stringers and hull.

Looking for advice from the collective hive to try and figure out what's causing this as I can't find any evidence that water has leaked into that space from above or from the sump. Also concerned as to how that wet floor will affect the integrity of the boat both short and long term.


UPDATE: Went back to the boat with a friend who has a skipper moisture meter. The floor as well as the stringers pegged the meter. The stringers in the compartment just forward also pegged the meter, although the floor there did not. Might be time to drill a few inspection holes in the stringers and see what shows up. Since there are no limber holes in either compartment, I can't check to see what, if anything, is between the stringers and the hull.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

Pic of the floor (looking down) showing the cracked flooring and a section of flooring that I pulled up which revealed the wet subfloor

I just went through a very similar situation. Boat was surveyed two years ago and passed with no problems. I was having the boat repositioned via a reputable marine hauling company. Unfortunately, they had a mishap on the road and my hull was damaged a bit. During the repair, we found that the bilge under the bow thruster battery compartment had water in it. A stringer in that compartment was also soft and unserviceable. There have been no indications of a leak whatsoever. So, I had a fiberglass guy open the floor and replace the stringer. The new stringer was installed, wrapped in glass and then we painted the whole area in bilge paint. Finally, I had him install a watertight 4" inspection port on either side of the stringer. The fact that there was water down there and I had no idea (and no way of knowing) was not comfortable. Now, the boat has been in the water for several weeks and through several storms and the bilge area is bone dry. I'll try to add some photos. I plan on adding another 4" watertight inspection port in the aft bilge area as well - just so I can keep an eye on it.
 
Below is the area under the bilge when it was first opened and drained. There was a lot of foam down there. I was surprised that the wood wasn't "marine grade" or wrapped in glass. But it is now!
aFc1BOp.jpg
 
From the description above, sounds like you found this problem not as a result of the transport damage, but rather the water/wet stringer problem was found by accident during the repair.

Basically HOW did the water get into that area and WHERE did it originate?

The big question here is:

is this seawater?

is it freshwater from a leaking water system fitting or rainwater?

is the water/stringer issue local only to the thruster compartment?

is there water anywhere else in the hull?

is the balsa core compromised?

hard to tell the perspective from the photos; is this the area forward of the thruster tube? Is the stringer fore/aft or port/stbd?

hope you can share more information with the FORUM on this situation as I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like to know more details.

BEST !

RWS
 
Someone told me there was a way to set up/modify the cablemaster tub with wing nuts so it could be more easily/quickly moved.

Anyone here done so?

BEST !

RWS
 
From the description above, sounds like you found this problem not as a result of the transport damage, but rather the water/wet stringer problem was found by accident during the repair.

Basically HOW did the water get into that area and WHERE did it originate?

The big question here is:

is this seawater?

is it freshwater from a leaking water system fitting or rainwater?

is the water/stringer issue local only to the thruster compartment?

is there water anywhere else in the hull?

is the balsa core compromised?

hard to tell the perspective from the photos; is this the area forward of the thruster tube? Is the stringer fore/aft or port/stbd?

hope you can share more information with the FORUM on this situation as I'm sure there's a lot of us who would like to know more details.

BEST !

RWS

She's about to go through Tropical Storm Nicole, so I'll know in the next day or so if it's water intrusion due to rain! The fiberglass guy didn't think it was salt water - but it was pretty bilge-y so he wasn't into the taste-test. Also, it didn't leave any salt deposits. I haven't seen any water (ever) anywhere in the hull. The location is about 6' aft of the thruster tube (which is dry). In my model, it's the under-floor compartment next to the forward head where the batteries and charger for the bow thruster are located. I've never seen any water leakage whatsoever, so it's possible it has been in there for a while as there is no way to see in there or remove any water that may be in there. In the image below, he is sitting with his legs in the compartment, with his back to the main forward cabin, facing aft. You can see the bottom of the bow thruster battery charger above the repair.
I don't think the balsa was impacted as I had a surveyor inspect the hull after the impact damage and he said it was in very good shape. I suppose it could be from a leaky shower drain or sink, but I've never used the shower - other than to put winterizing fluid and flush. I'll dig in after the storm. I'm considering installing another inspection port in the underfloor compartment next to the fridge. Not knowing that there was water in there is a crappy feeling.

hxnMQX0.jpg
 
Is your fwd air conditioner in that area? I had found a leak from anchor locker into the compartment beneath the bed where the ac is located. Rotted out the entire tray for the ac. Easy fix , but could see the ac or the anchor locker as possible intrusion points.
 
Wow
so that whole compartment was filled with water?
The water didn't make it into the carpeted battery area. Only into the bilge below that floor. It wasn't full, but there was a good bit in there. The bilge seems to be sectioned off, so it was contained to that area. Again, there was no indication that there was a leak of any sort. We found it during the repair. The boat has been great
 
Is your fwd air conditioner in that area? I had found a leak from anchor locker into the compartment beneath the bed where the ac is located. Rotted out the entire tray for the ac. Easy fix , but could see the ac or the anchor locker as possible intrusion points.
This is the underfloor storage area aft of the master stateroom door and between the forward head and the galley sink. The underfloor compartment where the thruster tube and motor is located is dry. I suppose it could be from the anchor locker area and traveling under the thrust reverser compartment. I'll dig into that. Thanks. I should know if it's a rain water leak in the next day or so as she just went through Hurricane Nicole. I'lll report back when I get there.
 
Joe,

We have had about 20% of the 48DA's. 48DB's, 45EB's, 50DA's and 52DA's that The dealer didn't spec the boat to have bow thrusters installed at the factory as the boat was built get leaks in that area. The problem seemed to be poor fiberglass work when the thruster tube was installed at the marina as a contractor installed the bow thruster in the boat yard at the marina.

The leak was spotted when the boat was lifted and blocked up in the yard with the stern higher than the bow. The holes appeared to be about the size of a pin head where th e gelcoatt was sanded too thin over the point where the thruster tube mated to the hull.

As distasteful as the prospect seems the starting point is to either taste the water in the boat or test it with a pool salt analyer. If it is salt water the source is narrowed down to below the waterline…….if it is freshwater is quickly narrowed down to rainwater , potable water from the water tank and plumbing systems or washwater.

Good luck with it ………..

Frank.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
112,950
Messages
1,422,865
Members
60,932
Latest member
juliediane
Back
Top