- May 14, 2008
- 3,541
- Boat Info
- 1988 390 EC
- Engines
- 454 Mercruiser Gassers
I should have mentioned that it is made out of #5052 1/4" Aluminum Plate.
Official 390 E.C. Thread
- Thread starter electricaldoctor
- Start date
- May 14, 2008
- 3,541
- Boat Info
- 1988 390 EC
- Engines
- 454 Mercruiser Gassers
It is only 24" wide x 15" high x 21" long.
- May 14, 2008
- 3,541
- Boat Info
- 1988 390 EC
- Engines
- 454 Mercruiser Gassers
I ordered my door roller parts from Pierret at AAA Screen pierret@aaascreen.com (1) B-605 (2-pk) @ $15.50 / pk, (1) 3052 (2 pk) @ $6.69 / pk, (2) D-1758 @ $ 9.60 ea. They should be here next week. The top roller parts will have an extra part on it that will have to be removed to make it fit. ~Ken
steppinstone
New Member
Nice work. Care to share what that set you back?
steppinstone
New Member
Nice work! Care to share what that nice piece set you back?
390x
Member
I took advantage of my tab today. Against a very stiff current (flooded Mississippi River), 3150 rpms, 18.5 mph. WOT 4300 RPM's, 26.5 MPH. Again, this against probably an 8mph current. Very satisfied. Boat rode nice and flat with the help of the factory tabs.
390x
Member
Hey Doc, am I only seeing two bolt holes there? Are you sure that's enough? I have 4.
- May 14, 2008
- 3,541
- Boat Info
- 1988 390 EC
- Engines
- 454 Mercruiser Gassers
Those (2) 3/4" bolt holes are for the anode. I didnt pre-drill the actual mounting holes because I had no idea as to the proper placement of them. I bought the (4) s.s. bolts yesterday and will be securing the tab this morning. Good eye though Doug. :smt101
~Ken
~Ken
- May 14, 2008
- 3,541
- Boat Info
- 1988 390 EC
- Engines
- 454 Mercruiser Gassers
$300.00 for the plate and the fabricating job was done by a friend. $ priceless $
390x
Member
Anxious to hear how you like it.
- May 14, 2008
- 3,541
- Boat Info
- 1988 390 EC
- Engines
- 454 Mercruiser Gassers
It's been so long since I've uploaded multiple pics from my Photo bucket account to CSR that I forget how to do it. I think that they will also need resizing. HELP!!!
Hi All!
Finally launched the boat after winter storage. What we did during the winter:
-soda blasted the underwater part of the hull down to the gelcoat
-removed all underwater fittings; rudders, shafts, hull-throughs, prop shaft supports
-soda blasted all removed fittings
-re-laminated a spot on the hull where the fibreglass was apparently left dry (not penetrated by resin) at the factory
-treated the hull with polyurethane/epoxy coating
-re-sealed all fittings
-replaced the cutlass bearings
-removed the polyurethane foam under the engine room floor and the cabin floor (water condensates here!), this resulted in maybe 15-20 contractor trash bags. Pascoe has written about these hidden compartments, I can clarify it is an insane way of building a boat and asking for trouble after 20 years. The portside upper stringer had to be repaired, but luckily nothing else had been damaged. Apparently the portside window had leaked into the bulkhead and thus into the compartment under the floor. On the starboard side, the window had leaked into the wardrobe cabinet and sort of a window-sill made of plywood, and therefore the starboard side floor was dry!
-removed the windows, replaced the plastic windows with proper cast acrylic glass, sanded the frames and re-coated them with polyurethane varnish
-re-bedded the windows with 130 stainless through-bolts, polyurethane sealant and butyl sealant. The window design is all wrong and WILL develop a leak at some point. The windows are curving in two directions and were fixed with screws only. The middle part that is not transparent has a butt-to frame connections, which will leak unless sealed properly from behind.
-the part of the frame where the screws/bolts are functions as drain and makes water flow exactly where it should not go, namely the front and end of the frame (the lowest part of the frame). I sealed the bolts with butyl sealant and filled the screw recess with polymer sealant. Sure, it will be a pain to dig out if necessary, but I don't want water flowing within the frame.
-another thing I noticed was that the window silhouette in the hull was cut very "approximately" at the factory, some of the original screws were in the air, not in the material! I made new holes though the hull and the frame.
-The trim tab plates were attached with screws, not bolts. They still are, because the holes are exactly at the corner of the back of the boat and the underside of the boat - there is now way to fix nuts and washers here. I replaced all screws, dried and treated the holes with epoxy and sealed with butyl and polyurethane sealant. The Sea Ray factory had just squirted a large blob of silicone to sit at the end of the screw. Thanks to some miracle they hadn't leaked though.
-replaced some of the bilge pumps/switches
-rebuilt the bilge drain plug: There are three small screws, with which the plug is attached to the hull. These screws were extremely close to the actual drain hole - there was perhaps 2-5mm material between the screw holes and the drain hole. If someone would use a large wrench to open a stuck drain plug, the hull might crack. I laminated an additional "plate" on the inside of the hull and bolted the drain plug collar though the hull and the new fibreglass plate.
-the fibreglass hull under the rudder holder is surprisingly thin! It was perhaps 6-7mm thick. There was also some gelcoat damage due to the movement of the rudder, but luckily no fibreglass damage. I added about 10 layers of 300grams/m2 mat on the inside of the hull. Much stronger now. This was a surprise since the rudders themselves are a very solid and strong construction. Also readjusted the rudders, the portside rudder was perhaps 10 degrees off the other one.
-for some reason the portside tank started to leak during the storage. This was a cause for some panic since there was about 500l (130 gallons) of diesel fuel inside! A farmed borrowed a fertilizer tank and we were able to pump the tank empty. The hose had to be inserted through the fuel gauge hole, since the actual filling hose makes a too sharp turn to allow even a small hose to be inserted that way. I'm considering installing an ATL bladder tank inside the old aluminium frame, anyone used those?
-the tanks are built-in. I see no way of removing the tanks without removing the engines (not going to do that)
-After launch the engine water intakes leaked a bit where the metal hull-through connects to the metal ball valve. Apparently there was not enough sealant between the two metallic components. Still thinking about what to do about this.
-The Yanmar's fired up nicely and worked fine again, but the portside prop shaft fell of the coupling at the engine! This caused quite a bit of bewilderment initially. I still don't know why this happened, maybe the locking screws were not properly in place. We had to use some oil to get the coupling to slide in place, maybe that helped in the process of the shaft coming off. Also here the construction is a bit strange: If the boat is backing, the propeller pulls the shaft away from the engine coupling. The shaft key, according to my understanding, only transfers rotating forces and does not lock the shaft along the axis. Therefore, the only thing keeping the shaft attached to the coupling that is attached to the engine, is the locking screws, which "insert" into two very minor recesses on both sides of the shaft. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems there is an awful lot of force transferring through these screws.
-currently the boat is floating tilted since there is 500kg of fuel just on the other side! Don't know how to fix this before the new tank.
I'd like to thank the Stroboflash site (Dr. Microchip) for an invaluable source of information - it is really great to see actual images of the dismantled innards of the boat before taking things apart yourself.
Finally launched the boat after winter storage. What we did during the winter:
-soda blasted the underwater part of the hull down to the gelcoat
-removed all underwater fittings; rudders, shafts, hull-throughs, prop shaft supports
-soda blasted all removed fittings
-re-laminated a spot on the hull where the fibreglass was apparently left dry (not penetrated by resin) at the factory
-treated the hull with polyurethane/epoxy coating
-re-sealed all fittings
-replaced the cutlass bearings
-removed the polyurethane foam under the engine room floor and the cabin floor (water condensates here!), this resulted in maybe 15-20 contractor trash bags. Pascoe has written about these hidden compartments, I can clarify it is an insane way of building a boat and asking for trouble after 20 years. The portside upper stringer had to be repaired, but luckily nothing else had been damaged. Apparently the portside window had leaked into the bulkhead and thus into the compartment under the floor. On the starboard side, the window had leaked into the wardrobe cabinet and sort of a window-sill made of plywood, and therefore the starboard side floor was dry!
-removed the windows, replaced the plastic windows with proper cast acrylic glass, sanded the frames and re-coated them with polyurethane varnish
-re-bedded the windows with 130 stainless through-bolts, polyurethane sealant and butyl sealant. The window design is all wrong and WILL develop a leak at some point. The windows are curving in two directions and were fixed with screws only. The middle part that is not transparent has a butt-to frame connections, which will leak unless sealed properly from behind.
-the part of the frame where the screws/bolts are functions as drain and makes water flow exactly where it should not go, namely the front and end of the frame (the lowest part of the frame). I sealed the bolts with butyl sealant and filled the screw recess with polymer sealant. Sure, it will be a pain to dig out if necessary, but I don't want water flowing within the frame.
-another thing I noticed was that the window silhouette in the hull was cut very "approximately" at the factory, some of the original screws were in the air, not in the material! I made new holes though the hull and the frame.
-The trim tab plates were attached with screws, not bolts. They still are, because the holes are exactly at the corner of the back of the boat and the underside of the boat - there is now way to fix nuts and washers here. I replaced all screws, dried and treated the holes with epoxy and sealed with butyl and polyurethane sealant. The Sea Ray factory had just squirted a large blob of silicone to sit at the end of the screw. Thanks to some miracle they hadn't leaked though.
-replaced some of the bilge pumps/switches
-rebuilt the bilge drain plug: There are three small screws, with which the plug is attached to the hull. These screws were extremely close to the actual drain hole - there was perhaps 2-5mm material between the screw holes and the drain hole. If someone would use a large wrench to open a stuck drain plug, the hull might crack. I laminated an additional "plate" on the inside of the hull and bolted the drain plug collar though the hull and the new fibreglass plate.
-the fibreglass hull under the rudder holder is surprisingly thin! It was perhaps 6-7mm thick. There was also some gelcoat damage due to the movement of the rudder, but luckily no fibreglass damage. I added about 10 layers of 300grams/m2 mat on the inside of the hull. Much stronger now. This was a surprise since the rudders themselves are a very solid and strong construction. Also readjusted the rudders, the portside rudder was perhaps 10 degrees off the other one.
-for some reason the portside tank started to leak during the storage. This was a cause for some panic since there was about 500l (130 gallons) of diesel fuel inside! A farmed borrowed a fertilizer tank and we were able to pump the tank empty. The hose had to be inserted through the fuel gauge hole, since the actual filling hose makes a too sharp turn to allow even a small hose to be inserted that way. I'm considering installing an ATL bladder tank inside the old aluminium frame, anyone used those?
-the tanks are built-in. I see no way of removing the tanks without removing the engines (not going to do that)
-After launch the engine water intakes leaked a bit where the metal hull-through connects to the metal ball valve. Apparently there was not enough sealant between the two metallic components. Still thinking about what to do about this.
-The Yanmar's fired up nicely and worked fine again, but the portside prop shaft fell of the coupling at the engine! This caused quite a bit of bewilderment initially. I still don't know why this happened, maybe the locking screws were not properly in place. We had to use some oil to get the coupling to slide in place, maybe that helped in the process of the shaft coming off. Also here the construction is a bit strange: If the boat is backing, the propeller pulls the shaft away from the engine coupling. The shaft key, according to my understanding, only transfers rotating forces and does not lock the shaft along the axis. Therefore, the only thing keeping the shaft attached to the coupling that is attached to the engine, is the locking screws, which "insert" into two very minor recesses on both sides of the shaft. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems there is an awful lot of force transferring through these screws.
-currently the boat is floating tilted since there is 500kg of fuel just on the other side! Don't know how to fix this before the new tank.
I'd like to thank the Stroboflash site (Dr. Microchip) for an invaluable source of information - it is really great to see actual images of the dismantled innards of the boat before taking things apart yourself.
- May 14, 2008
- 3,541
- Boat Info
- 1988 390 EC
- Engines
- 454 Mercruiser Gassers
"-the part of the frame where the screws/bolts are functions as drain and makes water flow exactly where it should not go, namely the front and end of the frame (the lowest part of the frame). I sealed the bolts with butyl sealant and filled the screw recess with polymer sealant. Sure, it will be a pain to dig out if necessary, but I don't want water flowing within the frame." I have just pulled my side windows and have also replaced the Plexiglas. I haven't put the windows back in yet, so I am very interested in what you have to say about the windows. I am not quite sure about what you are referring to about screws/bolts drain. Do you have any pics of this? "sanded the frames and re-coated them with polyurethane varnish" I am also intrigued about this finishing step that you took. My frames are bare aluminium.
Dr MicroChip
Member
"-for some reason the portside tank started to leak during the storage. This was a cause for some panic since there was about 500l (130 gallons) of diesel fuel inside! A farmed borrowed a fertilizer tank and we were able to pump the tank empty. The hose had to be inserted through the fuel gauge hole, since the actual filling hose makes a too sharp turn to allow even a small hose to be inserted that way. I'm considering installing an ATL bladder tank inside the old aluminium frame, anyone used those?"
All marine fuel tanks have baffles welded inside to dampen the momentum of the fuel sloshing around in the tank. You cannot put a bladder in the tank. I pulled both of my tanks because they were leaking or about to leak. The Sea Ray tanks are only .125" (3mm) thick. They mounted the tanks on foam rubber which compressed and allowed water to accumulate under the tank. This causes crevice corrosion of the aluminum - the worst kind. Luckily it is diesel and your boat won't blow up if it leaks but it sure is stinky!
You could possibly drain the tank, remove the support straps, jack up one end (assuming the leak is near the end), clean the aluminum and degrease. Then use some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to repair the leak. In the US there is a non politically correct racial slur expression for this type of repair which I will not get in to. When you have a fuel leak you have to deal with it as painful as it may be.
I removed the Sea Ray tanks and had new ones fabricated out of 3/16" (5mm) 5052 aluminum and mounted them on 2" wide strips of 1/4" neoprene. I used an anodizing solution on them then painted them with 3 coats of coal tar epoxy. They will NEVER corrode - even if the boat sinks and they spend eternity with Davy Jones.
With regards to the shafts and couplers. Sea Ray used one crummy 5/16" locking bolt to lock the shaft to the coupler. When I took my shafts and props in to Stuart Propeller, Stuart FL. They drilled out the original set screw and added another at 90 deg using hardened 3/8" cup faced set screws. That way you can really crank down on them and lock the shafts. Nothing worse than slamming it in reverse and having your shafts disappear in to the briny deep!
Dr MicroChip
All marine fuel tanks have baffles welded inside to dampen the momentum of the fuel sloshing around in the tank. You cannot put a bladder in the tank. I pulled both of my tanks because they were leaking or about to leak. The Sea Ray tanks are only .125" (3mm) thick. They mounted the tanks on foam rubber which compressed and allowed water to accumulate under the tank. This causes crevice corrosion of the aluminum - the worst kind. Luckily it is diesel and your boat won't blow up if it leaks but it sure is stinky!
You could possibly drain the tank, remove the support straps, jack up one end (assuming the leak is near the end), clean the aluminum and degrease. Then use some epoxy and fiberglass cloth to repair the leak. In the US there is a non politically correct racial slur expression for this type of repair which I will not get in to. When you have a fuel leak you have to deal with it as painful as it may be.
I removed the Sea Ray tanks and had new ones fabricated out of 3/16" (5mm) 5052 aluminum and mounted them on 2" wide strips of 1/4" neoprene. I used an anodizing solution on them then painted them with 3 coats of coal tar epoxy. They will NEVER corrode - even if the boat sinks and they spend eternity with Davy Jones.
With regards to the shafts and couplers. Sea Ray used one crummy 5/16" locking bolt to lock the shaft to the coupler. When I took my shafts and props in to Stuart Propeller, Stuart FL. They drilled out the original set screw and added another at 90 deg using hardened 3/8" cup faced set screws. That way you can really crank down on them and lock the shafts. Nothing worse than slamming it in reverse and having your shafts disappear in to the briny deep!
Dr MicroChip
The recess, or "track" in which the window screws sit (not sure about the proper word for it), accumulates water. Normally this recess is covered with a plastic strip, but at least in our boat it didn't keep the water out. Water flows along the recess to the lowest point, which is either at the front or the back of the window. I had re-sealed the windows where the frame meets the hull and also where the plexiglass is glued to the frame, but they were still leaking - the reason being water getting behind this plastic strip and "flowing" to the lowest point of the frame, which was at the port side bulkhead and the lower part of the window frame, where the screw holes let the water into the boat.
The windows can leak at least at these locations, I found out:
-between the frame and the hull
-at the screw holes
-at the welding of the frame (not necessarily water proof!)
-at the lowest points and/or lower part of the frame "recess"
-where the back window joins the front window
-where the non-transparent back part of the front window joins the front window frame, there is a butt-to frame joint here, which was not sealed! Some water actually came out when I took apart the window.
There is a curious detail to these window leaks: The starboard windows had leaked onto a sort of "window sill", which is a textile-covered peace of plywood in the side cabin, screwed to the wall just beneath the window. Apparently this stopped the water so that the floor on the starboard side was dry (and stringers as well). On the portside, nothing had prevented the water from flowing into the window frame, to the bulkhead and from there to the floor, and finally under the floor where the polyurethane foam is.
As to the aluminum frame finish, the frames are aluminum, but they were pretty badly corroded. The original anodization was long gone. I sanded the frames with a coarse polishing disc and immediately treated them wind 2-component polyurethane varnish (Hempel Diamond). This is a bit of an experiment; the aluminum oxidizes immediately, and I'm not sure if the varnishing took place immediately enough. The west system epoxy guide describes a process in which the frames are sanded with wet paper and epoxy to prevent the aluminium from getting into contact with oxygen. Currently, the frames look good and shiny, but I don't know if it will last.
-
The windows can leak at least at these locations, I found out:
-between the frame and the hull
-at the screw holes
-at the welding of the frame (not necessarily water proof!)
-at the lowest points and/or lower part of the frame "recess"
-where the back window joins the front window
-where the non-transparent back part of the front window joins the front window frame, there is a butt-to frame joint here, which was not sealed! Some water actually came out when I took apart the window.
There is a curious detail to these window leaks: The starboard windows had leaked onto a sort of "window sill", which is a textile-covered peace of plywood in the side cabin, screwed to the wall just beneath the window. Apparently this stopped the water so that the floor on the starboard side was dry (and stringers as well). On the portside, nothing had prevented the water from flowing into the window frame, to the bulkhead and from there to the floor, and finally under the floor where the polyurethane foam is.
As to the aluminum frame finish, the frames are aluminum, but they were pretty badly corroded. The original anodization was long gone. I sanded the frames with a coarse polishing disc and immediately treated them wind 2-component polyurethane varnish (Hempel Diamond). This is a bit of an experiment; the aluminum oxidizes immediately, and I'm not sure if the varnishing took place immediately enough. The west system epoxy guide describes a process in which the frames are sanded with wet paper and epoxy to prevent the aluminium from getting into contact with oxygen. Currently, the frames look good and shiny, but I don't know if it will last.
-
This is what I thought as well, but the hose we inserted into the tank didn't hit anything at all. I tried to see into the tank from the gauge hole, but couldn't see any baffles. There is minimal space however, it could be that I just didn't look at a correct angle.
We will replace the tank(s), but I'm looking for a solution not requiring the removal of the engines. I don't think there is a way of installing a new steel tank without pulling out the engines (or cutting through the floor).
There were two shaft locking bolts, perhaps 8mm (5/16") in diameter. I think the shafts have been replaced at some point, at least the props are. It could be that the shaft zinc actually prevented the shaft from going too much backwards, since it hits the shaft support if the shaft moves backward.
ssousa
New Member
- Jun 18, 2012
- 64
- Boat Info
- 1986 Sea Ray 390 Express 3208T Cats.
- Engines
- 300 hp 3208T Cats
Ok, so I am trying Tao talk the wife into letting me build a hard top for our 89 390. Has anyone seen one? What did you think?
Dr MicroChip
Member
I thought about it but what a huge undertaking. You are talking maybe 10' long and 13' wide. That is a big structure. Do you have the skills and the place to make something that big? Then you have to weld up/bend custom aluminum tubing to hold it up. You would have to use a structural foam core and a couple of layers of biaxial plus some foam core joists to give it stiffness. You don't want to put anything heavy up there or the boat will want to roll more and wifey won't like that. Take some measurements and look around at surplus marine places. You can probably buy one cheaper than making one.
