Off Shore Boating

Just to keep things in perspective, my 58 is category B.
 
I had the 320DA out in 5-7', not by design. 7-8 knots SOG, getting beat to death, and the entire boat was airborne at least twice. "Honey, what was that noise? Oh that? that was twin Merc 5.7 MAGs passing 5000 RPMs hon.....no worries"

I now have a bigger boat.

regards
Skip
 
A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8
(Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal
conditions, and vessels largely self-sufficient.
(note: generally accepted as greater then 50 miles offshore)

B: OFFSHORE: Designed for offshore voyages where conditions up to, and including, wind
force 8 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 4 m may be experienced.
(note: generally accepted as 3 - 50 miles offshore)

C: INSHORE: Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers
where conditions up to, and including, wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to,
and including, 2 m may be experienced.
(note: generally accepted as less then 3 miles offshore)

D: SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small bays,
small lakes, rivers and canals when conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and
significant wave heights up to, and including, 0,3 m may be experienced, with
occasional waves of 0,5 m maximum height, for example from passing vessels.
(note: sheltered coastal and inland waters)

Craft in each Category must be designed and constructed to withstand these parameters in
respect of stability, buoyancy, and other relevant essential requirements listed in Annex I, and
to have good handling characteristics.

NOTE: The Design category parameters are intended to define the physical conditions that
might arise in any category for design evaluation, and are not intended for limiting the use of
the recreational craft in any geographical areas of operation, after it has been put into service.
The physical conditions shall be determined from the maximum wind strength and wave
profiles, where wave profiles are consistent with waves generated by wind blowing at the
maximum stated strength for a prolonged period, subject to limits of the implied fetch and the
maximum stated wave heights, and excluding abnormal factors such as sudden change in
depth or tidal races.

For category D, allowance should be made for waves of passing vessels up to a maximum wave height of 0,5 m.

For category A, unlimited conditions apply as they reflect that a vessel engaged on a long
voyage might incur any conditions and should be designed accordingly, excluding abnormal
weather conditions e.g. hurricane
Click to expand...

Thank you Presentation....THATS the answer I was looking for!
 
So my 260 and sea Gull's 58 are both rated the same? :smt017

I know which one I would prefer to be in if the weather got bad and it isn't my 260DA. :smt021
 
Dave S said:
So my 260 and sea Gull's 58 are both rated the same? :smt017

I know which one I would prefer to be in if the weather got bad and it isn't my 260DA. :smt021
Click to expand...

I can imagine that there is some logic about the handling of smaller boats in some situations.

• The longer boat won't pitch as violently in steep waves.
• The longer boat will be more stable than the short boat.

But...

• The longer boat is less manoeuvrable.
• A high volume boat, with its higher bulk out of the water, is more difficult to control in strong winds than a lower profile lower volume boat.
- a longer boat sometimes is in 2 waves at the same time...

A smaller planing craft can skim across small waves at speed, but if the waves are steeped you will have to slow down to avoid a hard, bumpy ride. Now, because the hull is no longer planing, you'll find it harder to handle.

Heading into bigger seas, the technique is to power up the wave, slow down at the crest, then power on again to meet the next wave.

If you cut the power at the base of a big wave, you risk burying the bow.

If you keep the power on over the top of a big wave, you risk jumping off the top and slamming into the trough, or even flipping the boat, especially if you're heading into the wind.

This is sometimes more difficult with a bigger boat
 
There is another aspect to this. A small boat can survive large seas, but will have a heck of a time doing it and has to slow way down. At about 50' there is enough hull length to span the crests of large, short period waves.

In our old 410DA four to six foot head seas would have us slowing down to about 16 knots. In the 58 it's full steam ahead - 26 knots into 4 footers and the crew is lounging watching satellite TV.
 
I was out about 25 miles in my 185 one day, and a party fishing boat, on pilot I presume, came within about 100 yards of us. We were anchored and fishing.

Before I could get my anchor up, his wake hit us broadside, and almost sank us.

Another time, I was anchored with dad-in-law in the 185, in about 3-4 foot seas. On occasion, a bigger one come through. He was up in the bow, and had pulled the anchor. Just as he turned around to sit down, a big wave broke over the bow, nad he disappeared behind a wall of water. When the bow came up, he was still sitting there, same dumb look on his face, except he was soaking wet, the brim on his hat was folded flat down, you get the picture. That wave, which came out of nowhere, almost sunk us too.
 
This whole topic boils down to risk...and pleasure. Back in the days when all boats were under sail, much smaller boats than what some of you guys have on this forum would sail across the Atlantic; without a weather forecase, GPS... They took the risk because they thought they had too. Today it seems that any kind of risk is a no-no; it's ALL about safety. There is a wooden replica boat docked right across the river from me that sailed from England here, way back when (The Maryland Dove). We see it sailing often; its small! I couldn't imagine sailing it across the Atlantic back then...

I think all of us here already take more risk than the general population is willing to tolerate today, just by the fact that we own a boat and take it into the water. Some take a little more risk. Older boats, more risk. Smaller boats, more risk. Bigger seas, more risk. And I may be more than the norm as I like to fly in small aircraft, mountain bike, etc blah blah. But that's what I'm comfortable with. Unfortunately, the risk you are willing to accept sometimes is no longer up to you. Motorcycle helmets, seat belts, etc.

So in this case (because you can make the decision yourself), weigh the risks, decide your experience level, and decide if you are willing to accept that risk. Then, if it all adds up, have fun...and -be prepared- for the consequences.

Sorry...rant off! :smt101
 
I would have to say that I really enjoyed this topic progress from the sternly careful to even what I would consider crazy. Personally its only going to take a near mishap like taking a big wave over the side or aft and I will learn quickly. I don't believe its what we get away with that is truly educating us but its combining the thoughts of others along with our own comfort level and most important a boat properly prepared and equip for the journey we have planed is the most important. I work in a rather dangerous industry. Water and wastewater. Between the extremely dangerous chemicals and the many areas that we have to work in, I have learned one very important thing and that at the end of the day its important to remind my guys that nothing is worth the health and safety of any of us and that really applies to a recreational activity. My self with my 260 sundancer I have no problem with going to Catalina or channel islands or even lake Powell with winds howling but you need a float plan and an ever watchful eye and know what your boat is capable of and time to learn what you can do. Watching the weather and time. I even know some friends that go out to Catalina regularly a 18 open bow for fishing and have been caught in waves that there only chance was to get in behind another larger boat and follow as the could not see anything but water all around and the laugh and keep doing it. I think we all know thats what drives up the cost for all of us because accidents are more likely to happen. Sorry for the rant. Just my 02+ :thumbsup:
 
Razbre everyone has their own spin on things, including me. :cool:

You don't have to appreciate my sense of humor to understand my point. The way I see your question is like the guy standing on the edge of a 5 story building with the question, "Think I'll get hurt if I jump"? Some folks see it right off the bat, others it takes a shove and "Let me know when you get to the bottom"?

Are you crazy for going off shore.....you really won't know till you do. :grin:

Be careful out there, because I really don't want to see you on CNN...I got better things to do on my Sunday nights. :grin:
 
I would not be one to say you can't do it, because I have (in my 185). The farthest I venture in the 185, which had almost no freeboard, was about 20-25 miles. On a calm day, in that boat, it didn't feel like it was that far, because it was less than an hour's ride.

Now, with the 450EB, I'm thinking of going 100-120 miles offshore this summer. There is not 1 person that I have talked to that does not think that I am entirely crazy. However, I have all the appropriate safety gear (except a life raft, which I will have before I do that), and I'm secure in the knowledge that the boat will handle it. I won't do it in a hurricane, but I'm sure I can handle a normal summer day, when things are generally flat and quiet.

The bottom line is this - get all the right safety gear, know how to handle your boat, make sure the crew knows how to operate at least the minimum safety gear (vhf, epirb, etc), make sure you know the weather, and then pick your day.

If you pick the right day, you're probably OK. If you pick the wrong day, you are not OK.

The one thing to remember is this, though: you have to have flexibility in your schedule to allow for weather. If you stick to your rigid schedule, regardless of the weather, you run the risk or running afoul.
 
ylwjacket-

Crazy for a 100 mile off shore trip......I don't think so.

Folks in our area do it all the time as we cross the Gulf from Panama City or Apalachicola to Clearwater....its about 185 miles and in the middle we are 90+ miles from either end. Additionally, most of the larger Sea Rays are not trucked but are water delivered to our area from Merritt Island or Palm Coast....same trip in a brand new boat with all the new boat bugs.
 
It's about a 70 mile run offshore here to get into the Tuna in the summer. I am in the process of getting a SSB radio put in though. There is no VHF radio reception out there other than with other boats. Also getting XM weather put on... just got that equipment a few weeks ago. Our squalls come out of no where and by the time you see them, your toast... I hate lightning.

I will also mention that 2 years ago I saw a ~18 foot metal flat bottom jon boat about 50 miles offshore with 2 guys in it trying to do some Tuna fishing. Idiots... no life jackets on either. Another time I was out about 10-15 miles and saw a metal jon boat and the guy starting screaming over his handheld radio for me to watch my wake. More idiots....

I would never go offshore with a 20 foot boat. I have a 20 foot jet boat and I almost sank it a few years ago when I swamped it. I was in a river... (I was acting stupid with it but that's a different thread). I've been caught in crap where the nose of my 480 goes under water... no way in a 20 footer.
 
fwebster said:
ylwjacket-

Crazy for a 100 mile off shore trip......I don't think so.

Folks in our area do it all the time as we cross the Gulf from Panama City or Apalachicola to Clearwater....its about 185 miles and in the middle we are 90+ miles from either end. Additionally, most of the larger Sea Rays are not trucked but are water delivered to our area from Merritt Island or Palm Coast....same trip in a brand new boat with all the new boat bugs.
Click to expand...

We are thinking of making a trip up that way, if we can finagle some time out of the kids' travel ball schedules. May and June are world series prep, with the WS in July. The day after the WS, we head to the keys for 9 days.

If you make a trip down this way, holler out.

Most everyone I know is not a boater, so they think anything more 20 miles is nuts. I think I can manage it.
 
Thanks all for the input...really. This went from what seemed a scolding for even THINKING such a thing :smt018 :smt021 to one of some very good input. :smt038

I also read and post to a forum on NH SW fishing and asking the same question, and all came back with the same answer..

1.) Be prepared with all safety equipment on board.
2.) Pick your day carefully and watch the weather constantly.
3.) If at all possible, go with a 'buddy boat' (2 boats are better than 1), have 2 other boats wanting to go along, a 21' and 22'.

Some say that they go out in 18's as some of you have seen offshore.

STIHLBOLTS: I know what your saying.....lol...but you gotta understand that some people will read and be 'Oh yeah!!! I'll give ya something to read about!!!! Kiss my a**, I"M GONNA DO IT NOW!!!!!'
lol...and I'm one of them.... :smt101

Thanks all for the input.
 
I used to have a childhood friend just like that. Any time I told him he could not or should not do something so dumb...he did it, especially after I double blind dared him and bet a dollar. Worked every time....We would wind up in the emergency room with me standing by innocent as a angel while he was either getting stitched up or broken bone wrapped up and his mother beating his head with a rolled up news paper. :smt021 How he survived junior high school with a friend like me I'll never know. :smt017

:grin: :grin: Be-careful out there, with friends like me, I'll bet you can't take your 20 footer to the Bahamas... :wink: I got a dollar....says you can't... :smt043 Just kidding.... :lol:
 
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