Off Shore Boating

Razbre

Razbre

New Member
Feb 8, 2007
22
New Hampshire
Hi All....
Looking for some input as to wheather I'm as crazy as some say I am.
I currently have a 1995 20' Sea Ray and I'm thinking of going out 25-30 miles off the coast to where the whale watching and deep sea fishing boats go, an area called Jefferys' Ledge.

I fully intend to check the weather and not planning on going out if there is an inclination of bad weather. There was/is a lot of concern by others that the waters too rough for the boat, but I've been on some of the larger lakes where the water WAS very rough, 2-3 foot waves and couldn't do more than 5-10 knots without pounding the boat and shaking your teeth loose. Usually even with 2-3-4 ft swells on the ocean there is distance between each one so that your going in and out of them instead of slamming down onto them.

We've been on the ocean before and often, just not out that far as the wife like to keep land in sight. But I know that both the wife and daughter would be thrilled to see a whale, and maybe catch some 'real' fish.

So...am I crazy?
 
"am I crazy" depends.

I have gone out 20 miles on in my 185, but I had a couple of things that are essential:
- vhf radio
- gps device
- flares
- life jacket

Now, I would also take an epirb. I didn't get one of those until later, but the prices have come down. Or, you can rent an epirb at BoatUS stores.

You must know the weather. Weather changes quickly, and you must have a good report. Around here, in the summer, 1-2 is common, and it was OK to do. 2-3 would be a long ride. Anything bigger would be miserable, and possibly dangerous.

I will also say this: almost every time I am out on a day that is in the 3-6 foot range, I hear "pan, pan, pan" calls from the Coast Guard, looking for boats that are lost in rough seas.

That makes you think twice.
 
First a qualification: I'm real conservative when it comes to boats and the sea.....but, I'm getting an "error message" on this one.


At 25-30 miles out, you are out of sight of land and your freeboard or height above the water in a 20 ft. boat means means that if you need a rescue you will not be visible on anyone's radar because you will be in the trough between waves a lot of the time in just about any seas at all. Even if they catch you on the crest of a wave, they will have to be within about 12-15 miles of your location to see you.

Your VHF antenna height will be very low so the effective range is going to be in the 10 or so mile area which means you cannot call for a tow or emergency help without a "relay".

You have a single engine boat..... ='s no get-home ability in case of a mechanical failure.

Nearly every week in our area we have a decent forcast of 2-4's "except in areas near thunderstorms".......well, I've seen those comfortable 2-4 ft seas turn into a 6-8' snarling mess in the blink of an eye or a lot shorter time than the hour+ it takes you to run the 25 miles back from off shore.

This one is outside my comfort zone....I wouldn't do it.

But, as I say, I'm conservative. Just last week we were about 45 miles off shore, loafing along on autopilot enjoying a beautiful day on the Gulf and I hear a strange buzzing. I'm looking everywhere inside the boat for the source of the noise when I see something in our wake. Just then, a flats boat with a 300 hp Yamaha outboard blew by us going about 70 mph. So, folks go way off shore every day in small boats....but, not me, I just don't want to be a USCG statistic.
 
Frank,

I realy enjoy your rational posts, and the way you express yourself. Just had to throw that into the thread.
 
In general, I'm agreeing with Frank. 25-30 is a looooong ways out. However, I have seen people do it in smaller boats than I would.

If you go, you have to be extremely careful with weather. Things change fast offshore, and it is a very unforgiving environment.

Also if you go, you have to look at each trip as a potential life-threatening emergency, and prepare accordingly. It is much different than lake boating.
 
I agree that a lot needs to be taken into consideration...and redundency to make sure things are covered.

Have the 'usual' VHF radio with a hand held if the battery dies out that far, chartplotter/GPS with a handheld GPS as well.

Haven't got flares, but thats on my 'to get' list as I feel they ARE a necessity when out of sight of land. Fresh or salt water. Eprib? Agian...on my 'to buy' list' for this spring.

Life vest? 2 for each person on board.

Having been a student pilot, (just shy of my private)I know how important a good weather report is, and how much it can be wrong! You don't see pilots relying on the 6:00 news, they call and get an updated one from an FAA center.

Even then, fronts, winds, etc. must be looked at at well as other factors that can change the weather in a given area. So I would be looking at a NOAA weather forcast and Doppler.
 
It sounds like you are bent on going no matter the advice of the fellow experienced members of this board.

Assuming we can’t talk you out of it (I will add my vote to the ‘don’t do it’ side) I suggest you add four more items:

1 – Life raft. Assuming you are on a tight budget and have no paying passengers you can save a lot by buying a non-USCG/SOLAS rated one. A 6-preson Valise (soft bag) Revere brand is $1,600. It will be 29†x 12†x 15.5â€

2 – File a float plan with at least 2 responsible people and be sure to check in with them before you head out and again when you return. $Free. Does anyone have a link to a good form he can use?

3 – Have adequate life insurance for any family that depends on your income if something were to happed to you. By term, its cheap.

4 – Get a floating ditch bag. A small ACR RepidDitch is $50. 19†x 15†x 7†Keep your safety gear in here and keep it in a spot you can grab easily.

About that above mentioned EPIRB, I’d recommend you get one with a built in GPS. The cost and size has come way down. A personal Locating Beacon or PLB with built in GPS runs about $550-$600. Consider the ACR 406 GPS I/O EPIRB or MCMURCO Fastfind 406 PLB with GPS.

Life jackets should be Type 1 and you should spend the extra $20 each to get an attached flashing strobe. You can also survive much longer by wearing even a budget wetsuit. You should be able to find a log arm long leg 2MM neoprene wetsuit for around $100/each. Not as good as a survival suit but again I am assuming budget is a factor here.

With out at least the above I would change my vote from ‘don’t do it’ to ‘PLEASE don’t do it.’
 
Razbre,
Aren't flares a requirement on your boat?

Presentation,
While your recommendations are right on...where do you put all that "stuff" on a 20 foot boat? :smt017

Bottom line, I personally wouldn't go that far off shore, especially with my family on board...but thats just me.
 
I have been through that area before. The last time was in 2004 on our way from Marblehead to Portland. We spent a memorable lunch break drifting among whales and porpoises on Jeffrey's Ledge.

You have gotten some pretty sound advice so far about going offshore. I would also like to add that being among the whales is NOT SOMETHING TO DO IN A 20' BOAT. Sorry for shouting, but even in my 41 we felt small and vulnerable a couple of times when the whales approached. A 20 footer is just too small and vulnerable in this situation.
 
I don't remember where it was, but just yesterday on the news they showed a 25 or so footer being overturned by a whale. 2 POB.....one drowned...
 
ImpulseIII said:
.....While your recommendations are right on...where do you put all that "stuff" on a 20 foot boat? ......
Click to expand...

These two items are too big? :smt017

The mentioned life raft is the size of a slightly large duffel bag, 29†x 12†x 15.5†and it has the actual life raft + CO-2 inflation system plus a equipment pack containing:
• 3 Red Hand Flares
• 1 Red Parachute Flare
• Bailer
• Signal Mirror
• Water Tight Flashlight
• Extra Flashlight Batteries
• Floating Knife
• Rescue Throwing Quoit
• Sponges
• Paddles
• Seasick Tablets
• Repair Kit

The Ditch bag is even smaller at 19†x 15†x 7†and should have the EPIRB and other safety gear. The ACR EPIRB is 5.7†x 3.0†x 1.7†so the bag is mostly empty for other items you add. Personally I would put a waterproof handheld VHF in the remaining space of the ditch bag along with a spare set of batteries for the VHF, a hand held GPS, basic first aid kit, any additional flares I keep onboard would also go in there.

The float plan is a piece of paper and would be with the two people you trust on shore.
 
osd9 said:
I don't remember where it was, but just yesterday on the news they showed a 25 or so footer being overturned by a whale. 2 POB.....one drowned...
Click to expand...

Saw that too Dominic... It was in Japan. Nothing like trying to rescue a 40-50' sperm whale in a small boat...
 
Video

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=764_1173795959

Angry Whale Attacks Boat, Kills Japanese Fisherman

UWAJIMA BAY, Japan (03/13/2007)-- An angry whale knocked a Japanese fisherman out of his small boat on Tuesday, and the whole thing was caught on tape.

The man had been trying to rescue the whale, which had strayed out of open waters.

The body of the fisherman was later discovered by divers. He was pronounced dead at a nearby hospital.

The whale started to thrash and threw two other fishermen from another boat into the water, as well.
 
I will answer this question directly:

Yes, you are crazy. Please don't do it Razbre.

But this is a great example of the forum - thoughtful, rational emails all the time - I love it! I just printed off this post and am going to check through it carefully for my own information. This will serve as a great checklist/double check !!

THANKS everyone!
 
LOL...I really do thank everyone...really. And I DO understand what everyone is talking about. I'm not one to take risks where the chances of success are not in my favor. Although there have been times when on the lake that it had me more worried than times on the ocean.

I to saw that about the japanese fisherman, and thought HE was crazy, to me thats like going up and poking any wild animal while they are trapped and trying to get away. Something you just don't mess with even with good intentions. :smt021

OK...how about you people talking the wife into a bigger boat? :grin:
 
Razbre said:
OK...how about you people talking the wife into a bigger boat? :grin:
Click to expand...

Go get a brochure for the biggest, most expensive Harley Davidson you can find. Leave it sitting out; say on top of the toilet under the Kleenex box. :cool:

When she asks you what this is all about say you are thinking of getting a chopper or a bigger boat.

She will beg you to get the boat. :thumbsup:
 
If you think 3 foot waves are big, you are focusing on the wrong issue. Are you planning on doing this off the coast of NH? What is the water temp? Assuming you get a nice day and come back in 3 foot seas taking water over the bow, have you considered how you are dressed for hypothermia? Taking a wife and child on an adventure like you describe is not a good idea.
 
Presentation said:
-----cut----
You can also survive much longer by wearing even a budget wetsuit. You should be able to find a log arm long leg 2MM neoprene wetsuit for around $100/each. Not as good as a survival suit but again I am assuming budget is a factor here.
----stop----
Click to expand...

I just got my latest Overtons magazine. They have a dive master brand 2 piece 3mm neoprene wetsuit, separate farmer johns and jacket for $99/set. I have done cold water scuba diving with this exact wetsuit plus hood, boots and insulated gloves. Again, its no survival suit but when combined with a type I flotation device it will dramatically extend your survival time in mild temperature water.

I realize I did leave one thing out of my list, education. Take a boater’s safety course. They are offered by the coast guard auxiliary, the local power squadron, the DNR and you can also take them online here http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/
Upon passing this course you will get a certificate / wallet card. Many insurance companies give a discount upon providing them documentation that you successfully completed this course.
 
I grew up on the east coast and fished offshore fairly often. I can't remember a day where it was perfectly calm. There was always some type of wave action. I've been on chartered whale watching trips out of Cape Cod and I can honestly say it was worth it. I was on a 90 or 100 ft party boat (the kind used for fishing) and they take you right to the whale grounds. They have all the safety equipment, , vests, life rafts, epirb, etc. 25 to 30 miles out on a 20 footer is pushing it. You have to have real calm weather to do it.
 
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