Non Boating advise wanted

dwna1a

dwna1a

Well-Known Member
PLATINUM Sponsor
Apr 23, 2012
5,981
James River
Boat Info
88 Weekender 300 "Seahorse"
Engines
Twins 350
Members please, I need some advise. The one good employee I've had for the past 4 years has left us. No real problem there, people come and go. My issue is she's gone out and started the same type company. I started my company back in 1987, I've had others come in and become competition but I've never had someone that work for me. I kinda feel betrayed. Any words of wisdom from those of you that have gone thru this before?
 
What type of business, competition? Or taken clients?


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Sorry, commercial and residential building maintenance. Window cleaning, power washing, deck cleaning and staining, and hard water stain removal. So far all she's done is become competition but she has a complete log of all my clients so I feel it's just a matter of time
 
Ouch,thats just wrong.I think you need to inform your clients that she stole your list.Isnt that a crime?
 
Do you have a "non Compete" employment contract? If so you certainly have solid ground for action - If not I belive that your client list is just that YOURS. If you know that she has it get it back, contact a laywer send a certified letter requesting YOUR properity back and langauge that states it cannot be used ... Was she a reasonable person?
 
Obviously, there is no anti-competition contract, and I presume the log of your clients is not so much a printed a list as intimate knowledge of 4 years.

So.

I wouldn't be trying to alienate her......there's an old saying, keep your enemies close.

I would be making a point of getting out to see my regular clients, phoning them regularly and just generally chatting to keep the personal relationship strong, I presume that is the strength of your business, along with quality of work etc etc.

I wouldn't be making a point of mentioning it to clients at all, and would not be asking if they had been approached, I would only address it if they raised it, and then I would be focusing the conversation on the strength of my business and why we had the relationship that we do, and the quality, reliability, experience etc of my business.

I would try and keep bringing my focus back to my business and try not to be watching or worrying about what she is doing.

I would also try and take some solace in the fact I had trained her up to be able to take that step.


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I have all new hires sign a 5 year non compete agreement. Might want to go that route moving forward. It would be difficult to prove she "stole" your client list. Depending on your relationship with her as well as her personality but you may be able to persuade her to find her own clients, like you had to. Without legal protections people will always try to screw you in any type of business you operate.
 
Just heard this scenario on the Dave Ramsey show - but in that case the caller was the employee asking Dave about how to go about it and sounds like your case she did not come to you first.


My best advice with ain't worth much but you need to make some rounds and 're-sell' your clients. Your business is about the relationship you have with your clients - maybe not on the upfront sale but for sure afterwards. There is always someone coming to them to try to sell them and if they have resisted thus far apparently. They trust you - you probably in many cases have after hours access to their office/buildings so you have that trust relationship already established. Go confirm and solidify that, especially the ones that she may have been the regular for.
 
I've been through this with my business. I own a small remodeling Co.( was larger before the recession) I have had an employee get his license while still in my employ, and then try to steal a couple of jobs away as I was bidding them, by under bidding my cost. I found this out because the client told me who my competition was. There really isn't much I could do about it except terminate his association with me, but I was able to win the bids and do the work. I have also researched non-compete contracts with an attorney, and depending on the type of business, they don't always have much clout. Things that are not copy writed, or patented, like construction or remodeling, unless you own a specific process or design, it is hard to get a non compete to be enforceable and it comes down to direct competition in the market place. As stated above, if the client relationship if strong it will win the day. It is just one of those things that as business owners we have to take into consideration, and it give the incentive to treat our clients with honesty and respect, and hope that in return when a situation like this arises, that they will be loyal and return the honesty and respect that they have recieved from us.
 
Hey dwna1a, as stated in earlier post, your going to have to rely on the customers and the relationship that has been built up between them and yourself. My company had a job going, big enough we had to sub contract out part of the job. Our customer came to us handed us the sub contractor's card and said I thought you might want to know. As a side note, the sub contractor cut the price to under what he was already doing the job for and still didn't get it. If you have taken care of your customers they will stick with you since they have thus far. Your former employee is fixing to find out "If it was easy then everybody would be doing it." My Dad's words to me when I stressed during situations like the one above. God bless.
 
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I agree with others here about re-selling to your clients. If you have been in business for a while, you can most likely supply benefits that she may not be able to in her start up state. Major on your bond and trust as a long time provider instead of a few dollars savings. There is much to say about an ex-employee who steals your clients by under pricing. What are they leaving out to get their price down?

I had technician’s take piece meal work away from me. After reprimanding the technician, in one case dismissal, I called the client and asked if they wanted me for all their business or were they going to have the technician do what they could and were they going to try and find another company to support the technical “stuff”. They read between the lines and elected to keep us on.

It also maybe a time for you to sharpen your pencil and review your operation. Not saying there is anything you are doing wrong maybe just something that could be better.
Best of luck, and welcome to this end of the "business".

 
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A buddy of mine went through this when he was selling a landscaping business. He had the buyer sign a contract ensuring his foreman got a raise & that the whole crew stay employed for 2 years. When he informed the crew of the sale and conditions the foreman went out & got an old pickup & started stealing clients. Since part of his sale price was based on the amount of customers that transferred over, he hit the phones. He just informed his longtime customers of his personal knowledge of the quality of the new owner as well as questioning if his foreman had provided proof of proper licensing & insurance coverage when he solicited their business. In the end he retained more than 80% of his client base. This, after the foreman had told most clients he was going out of business as he made rounds. Unfortunately, my friend had begun a career in law enforcement at this time and had not been to the homes in a while thus, to most clients the foreman had become the face of the business.


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Todd
 
You really need to discuss this with a business attorney. In some states you have protection from this scenario. It would be pretty easy to show she went after your clients. While non-competes are difficult to enforce, some states frown upon stealing methods and databases. The point is, you could make it very hard on her potentially even a cease and desist while a case is pending. Slowing her down and costing too much to fight. I'm not suggesting this route nor saying it's available in every state. Just bringing a potential option to you.

Best of luck
 
I think your own advice, post #6, is best. Focus on yourself, your clients & your relationships. Take some proactive ideas and run with them. Offer some special deals, packages, upgraded services or whatever. You built the business, now just make it stronger. "Be better than your competition and your competition will make you better." That is an original quote. I repeat it to myself often.
 
It is very difficult for a one man operation to both sell and deliver quality work. Overlay that with the legal requirements for payroll taxes, payroll tax deposits, worker's comp insurance, unemployment taxers, etc. running a one man operation adds up to more headaches than the previous employee is seeing by trying to capture the margin you are making in your business. You have to earn the right to do business. You have done that with your customers, stay close to them and do a good job and play hardball with the competitor....refuse to let her underbid you on comparable work and show her what competition is and how dangerous stealing a customer list can be.
 
I'm not the attorney type...so that's out! She had become a face of the company, while I was always there the folks always seemed to go to her with the questions. Maybe that's because I was 20 to 30' in the air and unavailable for comments. Biz is Biz and this is the part I hate the most. We've been reaching out to all of our clients and retooling the company. We will come thru this stronger, but never again will I trust one person to be there for us when I can't be.
 
dwna1a said:
I'm not the attorney type...so that's out! She had become a face of the company, while I was always there the folks always seemed to go to her with the questions. Maybe that's because I was 20 to 30' in the air and unavailable for comments. Biz is Biz and this is the part I hate the most. We've been reaching out to all of our clients and retooling the company. We will come thru this stronger, but never again will I trust one person to be there for us when I can't be.
Click to expand...

The last statement will be harder than you think. You will need to trust someone else and thats a risk you take. Just make sure that someone signs a non-compete and client security document next time. The later states they can not activey cultivate from your established clients.

Both keep the honest, honest but it's all you have by law that I'm aware of. Both are time dated so even after they leave you can only guard your interest for so long.


Every employee needs to go through owning a business to understand it aint for the weak and feel the risk the owner takes everyday. I dumped my buiness after 6 years as I no longer wanted to handle employees and their families issues everyday, the government regs, and local palm greasing that went on in my area.

Insurance issues were a piece of cake compaired to the IRS having their hand out every quarter.
 
I'm just going to play devil's advocate for a minute. I don't know the people involved, but there are always two sides.

In my experience, the primary motivations for striking out on one's own in a situation like this are money, growth and/or stupidity.

Money is the obvious one. If you have a talented employee who isn't being paid well, then that's going to be a problem one way or another. Especially if the employee is taking on a lot of the business responsibilities, and their pay hasn't kept up, they are going to be motivated to find another way. They think that going into business for themselves will lead to more money (see Stupidity, below).

Growth is the biggie. If the employee has really picked up the ball and run with it, but is still treated like a menial, they are going to be dissatisfied. That's exactly the kind of person who has a real shot of going out and doing it on their own, and that needs to be recognized. The only way to keep them is to pay more and grow their role beyond the simple list of tasks performed. But sometimes there just isn't a way to keep them - they WANT to do it themselves.

Finally, stupidity (actually, willful blindness). The one who believes that the "rest of the job", the stuff they don't have to deal with, is the easy stuff.

It's usually a blend of all three, because (from experience) no matter how talented you are, it takes a certain level of stupidity to risk it all. I'm not saying it's stupid to try, just that no one really understands how hard it's going to be the first time they try it. And often the second time, too.

Dwna already said that this was the one really good employee, and the face of the business to the customers. That's a dangerous mix. If I were the only good employee (implying that I'm working with a bunch of bad ones), I don't see myself being terribly happy carrying the load for the rest.

The only reason I bring this perspective is that everyone is piling on the ex-employee as the bad actor, and we just don't know if that's true. There may be no bad actors here, as this is just the natural evolution in many careers. This person may have just outgrown their role at the company, or wanted more opportunity than was available. Everyone is assuming that the current client base will be poached. That may or may not happen. Is there no more room in the local market for competition?

I can guarantee that there are some clients who are already looking to jump - there always are. Some are always looking for a better deal, and some just won't be happy for their own reasons. How many times in your life have you dealt with an outstanding person who was working with a company you weren't happy with, and said (or thought) - "If only they were in charge, this would be so much better"? Sometimes those clients are prodding the person to start a competitive company. It happens all the time.

Dwna, I'm not saying you are a bad boss who pays slave wages and mistreats your employees. Honestly, over the last couple of years on the board I've gotten the impression that you are "good people". I'm just trying to balance out the "pile on the person we don't know" attitude that is dominating this discussion.
 
I don't want anyone to misunderstand, she is a great person, very hard working, and stayed with us for many years! She was paid very well. She's left us at a slow time so that we can find a replacement. I take all fault! That said, I will never allow one person to become the face of my company again. Her parting has left me, for a lack of a better word, bitter and concerned.

Four Suns.....Her contact info? You're kidding me right? I guess I should be the bigger person...and give it to you, but she's only doing construction and commercial cleaning. I will be down in your boats backyard tonight, come on over and I will get it to you. Just get there before I start eating oysters and sipping bourbon
 
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