I've read all the battery and inverter threads. I've done separate research on inverters. I considered putting on an Xantrex MS2000 inverter and several golf cart batteries. The cost for this is $3,000-$4,000 installed. 2008 will be my first boating season. The thought was to have something to power a coffee pot, the wife's hair dryer and our hot water heater for a shower. After careful consideration, I've decided to save myself at least $2,000 and go without the inverter for the first boating season, seek out shore power for the "real" vacations, and rough it for the overnighters. I can use the alcohol stove for coffee. With that thought, I realized that the stock house battery that comes with my boat will probably not keep up with the lighting, stereo, and DVD player. So, I'm going to pile on some golf cart batteries for 12V DC reserve this year. I've researched the Interstate line offered by the SeaRay dealer, Trojan, Rolls, and Deca. I haven't decided which one or how many. Once I have the batteries, in '09 I can reconsider the inverter or trading up to a 310 with genset. Any testimonials on batteries and recommendations on what is adequate for reserve capacity for 12V D/C? Do you agree that the 200 amp-hr stock house deep cycle battery is inadequate for an overnight with the lights on and the DVD player entertaining the 3 year-old? I'm looking for real experience, not the calculations. Thanks.
No genset on my boat
- Thread starter JV II
- Start date
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
- Boat Info
- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
- Engines
- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
We spent 23 nights onboard our 280 Sundancer this summer. We are a family of 5. My wife, me, 11 year old girl, 7 year old boy, 4 year old girl. We spent the full week during the 4th of July onboard.
In the 280 we have 3 batteries. One is only for starting one engine. I assume the 290 is like the 280.
Even if you run the other two down to dead you can start one engine, hit a button at the helm called the seize button and the boat will jump this one battery to the others in a way similar to jumper cables, allowing you to start the other engine, all without opening the hatch.
Use your propane (butane?) stove to make coffee. Also, your water will be hot for about a day after you run for an hour or two. Hair dryer? Can’t help you with that one.
We added a Magma gas grill. It gets a lot of use.
To be honest, more then the house battery is needed for air conditioning. Outside of A/C you can go without more. We are adding a generator this winter. The reason is A/C. As long as we have it, sure we will use it for other things like the electric stove, microwave, charge the batteries, etc.
Thanks Doug. Your success on the 280 with the family is reassuring. I'll definitely get a grill. I also have 3 batteries. 2 starting and one deep cycle house. They are wired like your 280.
In Boston, we won't need AC most of the time. Its pretty clear AC is not an option without a genset.
I'm curious about what you said about the hot water. Did you mean that the water stays hot for a day after disconnecting from shore power or that by running the engines you can heat the hot water somehow? I believe the hot water heater is only connected only to AC power as it is wired from the factory, so I don't know how it can heat when off AC shore power. That would be great if it is true.
In Boston, we won't need AC most of the time. Its pretty clear AC is not an option without a genset.
I'm curious about what you said about the hot water. Did you mean that the water stays hot for a day after disconnecting from shore power or that by running the engines you can heat the hot water somehow? I believe the hot water heater is only connected only to AC power as it is wired from the factory, so I don't know how it can heat when off AC shore power. That would be great if it is true.
jwfoster4
New Member
You should have hot water after running the engine. Most heaters will have two hoses running off the engine through a heat exchanger in your heater. Very simple use of the engines' cooling system. I would be surprised if yours is not setup that way. Just run your motor for about 10 minutes and you should feel some warm water out of your tap.
Sea Gull
Well-Known Member
It's a catch 22. If your wife has hot water for a shower, she needs a hair dryer to take care of her hair after the shower. If there is no hot water for a shower, no need for a hair dryer.
I would opt for roughing it for weekends on the hook and sprinkle in some nights at the dock. Your first year of boating will be a learning experience in many ways.
I would opt for roughing it for weekends on the hook and sprinkle in some nights at the dock. Your first year of boating will be a learning experience in many ways.
I vote for shaving your wife...
Morpheus
New Member
- May 7, 2007
- 2,450
- Boat Info
- 2006 SeaRay Sundeck 240
- Engines
- 5.0MPI Mercruiser w/ Bravo III
Nothing like a cleanly shaved wife huh gary :smt043
Alex F
Well-Known Member
- Nov 14, 2006
- 9,166
- Boat Info
- 2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
- Engines
- Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
JuliaValentine,
When you check out the water heater, look for two plack hoses about 3/4"-1" diameter. One for input, other output (from/to eangine). If you run the engine for few minutes you can feel that these two hoses get warmer and warmer. AS the row water circulates through the engine it also circulates thruogh the water heater, this warms up your water heater when you run your engine. Then, when hooked up to shore power you keep your water heated via electrical elements (just like house water heater). Between these two options your water stays warm for a long time. We alsways take advantage of this.
The only thing, make sure you have no leaks and the lines are not clogged.
Alex.
All very helpful. Thanks. I haven't even had a chance to get the boat in the water this year. I purchased in late October. I've got the optional fresh water cooling system. Does anyone know if the water from the engine to the hot water heater is from raw water cooling the exhaust manifolds or coolant from the engine cooling system? I imagine if raw water, the heater will eventually fail from corrosion.
jrcinnh
New Member
The water to heat the hot water comes from the engine circulator pump. If your boat has a closed cooling system (fresh water cooled) that water will be from the closed side not the raw water side.
Here is a picture of my hot water heater so you can see the two black hoses being mentioned here.
- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
- Boat Info
- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
- Engines
- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
OK, so bingo, you now can get hot water from running the engine. We normally do not stay put in one spot day after day. So as we run during the day the water in the hot water tank is heated. The water is still hot the next morning for washing breakfast dishes.
If I am at a marina we do plug into power. If we go to a campground, common in our area, I have an adapter to plug into a standard 120V outlet.
Now, about that hair dryer. In our boat there is a 12V outlet behind the TV. I would think you would have at least one 12V outlet in the cabin somewhere.
Here is one 12 volt model I found via Google. http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com/product/detail.cfm/pid/2812?ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=2812 This is not an endorsement; I have never used this site or a 12V hairdryer. Normally 12V appliance are wimpy, meaning you will not get near the heat from a 12V hair dryer that you would get from a traditional 120V hair dryer, but it should work in a pinch. As a comparison, a 12V coffee maker takes about 20 minutes to make one cup of good hot coffee so expect the 12V hair dryer to not dry her hair as fast as a traditional hair dryer. Most likely the 12V hair dryer will be blowing warm, not hot, air.
Just a tip; during the couple of minutes when your wife is using the hair dryer I would have the engine running that is connected to the house batteries. I can’t remember right now if the house battery charges off the starboard or port engine. Maybe someone else here remembers.
NOTE: I will be willing to bet, even give you 10 2 1 odds that if you do end up spending many summer nights on the hook you will want A/C, even on Boston. A/C means you need a generator. We are in Northern Wisconsin, not Florida, yet we really want A/C.
You will find you are ‘sleep on the hook’ people or you are not. If you are not, no reason to spend $ thousands buying golf cart batteries and an inverter just yet.
Noting wrong with being marina type people. I am friends with many people who will not sleep on the hook. What has me thinking you may be the marina type is your admiral’s need of a shower / hairdryer. We rinse off on our swim platform. Us grown ups are wearing our swimwear as we do this. My wife has rinsed off the kids in the head but neither her nor I have showered in the head.
If I am at a marina we do plug into power. If we go to a campground, common in our area, I have an adapter to plug into a standard 120V outlet.
Now, about that hair dryer. In our boat there is a 12V outlet behind the TV. I would think you would have at least one 12V outlet in the cabin somewhere.
Here is one 12 volt model I found via Google. http://www.rvsupplywarehouse.com/product/detail.cfm/pid/2812?ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=2812 This is not an endorsement; I have never used this site or a 12V hairdryer. Normally 12V appliance are wimpy, meaning you will not get near the heat from a 12V hair dryer that you would get from a traditional 120V hair dryer, but it should work in a pinch. As a comparison, a 12V coffee maker takes about 20 minutes to make one cup of good hot coffee so expect the 12V hair dryer to not dry her hair as fast as a traditional hair dryer. Most likely the 12V hair dryer will be blowing warm, not hot, air.
Just a tip; during the couple of minutes when your wife is using the hair dryer I would have the engine running that is connected to the house batteries. I can’t remember right now if the house battery charges off the starboard or port engine. Maybe someone else here remembers.
NOTE: I will be willing to bet, even give you 10 2 1 odds that if you do end up spending many summer nights on the hook you will want A/C, even on Boston. A/C means you need a generator. We are in Northern Wisconsin, not Florida, yet we really want A/C.
You will find you are ‘sleep on the hook’ people or you are not. If you are not, no reason to spend $ thousands buying golf cart batteries and an inverter just yet.
Noting wrong with being marina type people. I am friends with many people who will not sleep on the hook. What has me thinking you may be the marina type is your admiral’s need of a shower / hairdryer. We rinse off on our swim platform. Us grown ups are wearing our swimwear as we do this. My wife has rinsed off the kids in the head but neither her nor I have showered in the head.
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You all have save me a lot of cash. I'm just going to get an extra house battery to bolster my DC reserve. Folgers singles and tea will do. We'll keep it to one or 2 nights on the hook the first season and seek out the marinas for the admiral. If there is a restaurant and some shopping, then she hopefully agree that my decision to buy this beast was a good one.
You can check the plumbing schematic in the manual for the fresh water cooling option, but i'm pretty sure that the risers and elbows are still raw water cooled and everything from the manifolds down is glycol cooled by an exchanger with blank plates in the risers separating the two halves. You need to check the schematic to see which half the engine/water heater lines are connected to.
Well. . .good that you got the Fresh water cooling system. In five years, you will really appreciate having that.
And I think you can get away without the GensSet. You are on a boat. . you can forgo the hairdryer. Unless you are going out to dinner. . and have shorepower.
Note that with three batteries, more than likely you have two batteries in parrallel for the Starboard engine and house power, while the port engine has a single dedicated battery. So you really can't get the boat totally dead while on the hook.
And yes, you can cross connect the two engines at the helm so you can get the starboard engine running. This is important. Because (more than likely) your boat only has one power steering pump. And it's (more than likely) mounted on the starboard engine. The thing that looks like a power steering pump on the port engine is a dummy unit.
I don't overnight in a searay, but I do overnight on charter sailboats. On these boats, you don't drain the batteries with the lights. The big power users will probably be the TV/DVD and the refrigerator. Can you put any ice in the fridge at the start of an overnight trip? That will cut down on the power the fridge will draw during the day.
Honestly . . .I would try things out next year and you will soon figure out what your needs are.
now, here my sailboating background comes to show: When on the hook, we don't run the stereo. We drink a good bit of wine. some scotch. .. some baileys . .break out a deck of cards or a guitar. . . and have a good time while enjoying our surroundings.
And I think you can get away without the GensSet. You are on a boat. . you can forgo the hairdryer. Unless you are going out to dinner. . and have shorepower.
Note that with three batteries, more than likely you have two batteries in parrallel for the Starboard engine and house power, while the port engine has a single dedicated battery. So you really can't get the boat totally dead while on the hook.
And yes, you can cross connect the two engines at the helm so you can get the starboard engine running. This is important. Because (more than likely) your boat only has one power steering pump. And it's (more than likely) mounted on the starboard engine. The thing that looks like a power steering pump on the port engine is a dummy unit.
I don't overnight in a searay, but I do overnight on charter sailboats. On these boats, you don't drain the batteries with the lights. The big power users will probably be the TV/DVD and the refrigerator. Can you put any ice in the fridge at the start of an overnight trip? That will cut down on the power the fridge will draw during the day.
Honestly . . .I would try things out next year and you will soon figure out what your needs are.
now, here my sailboating background comes to show: When on the hook, we don't run the stereo. We drink a good bit of wine. some scotch. .. some baileys . .break out a deck of cards or a guitar. . . and have a good time while enjoying our surroundings.
Wow. Look at these posts roll in.
To emphasize: Check your wiring schematic -> I suspect the starboard engine and house users are sharing two batteries wired in parrallel. The good thing is that you have TWO batteries to drain down with the dryer. The bad news is that once you DO exhaust your batteries. . you won't have juice to crank over the starboard engine.
That's where the Emergency Start solenoid comes into play. .. the port engine battery is on a dedicated battery.
To emphasize: Check your wiring schematic -> I suspect the starboard engine and house users are sharing two batteries wired in parrallel. The good thing is that you have TWO batteries to drain down with the dryer. The bad news is that once you DO exhaust your batteries. . you won't have juice to crank over the starboard engine.
That's where the Emergency Start solenoid comes into play. .. the port engine battery is on a dedicated battery.
The boat is in the showroom, so I can crawl around the bilge and learn where everything is. In '08, I'm replacing the house deep cycle with 2 6V golf cart batteries. The cranking batteries will be isolated from the house bank with the battery switches, so they will never be run down. Under way, I'll charge the house bank by switching to "both." On the hook, I'll swithc to "2." With the reserve I'll have, the house bank will not likely be exhausted overnight by running the DVD, stereo, lights, etc. I'll use the cooler instead of the fridge. No need for a big inverter and 4 more batteries. You all helped me sort this out.
