NJ Statewide plastic bag ban

[MonacoMike]

Another illogical facet to this conversation is the heavy duty plastic packaging covering so much of what we buy. I never hear the enviros talk about that. Why?

The reason for that impenetrable packaging, that will dull your scissors and slice your hands is to get that junk here from China after potentially months at sea.

Let’s make it at home…

 

[b_arrington]

I don’t think recycling is just about the pollution in the air. It’s mostly about filling landfills imo.

This as a lot of validity. A primary measure of solid waste program effectiveness is amount of waste diverted from landfills or incineration. A tier 1 measure is tons of waste diverted; a tier 2 measure ratio of waste diverted per amount of solid waste collected. Tier 3 gets recycling per capita.

The idea is that normal incineration releases greenhouse gasses, so diverting waste reduces that. Landfilling is very expensive and there is limited space. You can calculate a costs per ton, or a cost per volume. Either way it's a lot. By diverting recyclable materials from the landfill you accomplish 2 things: drive down the cost of operating the landfill per ton of waste collected, and allow the landfill to operate for a longer period of time.

Both of these cost savings offset the additional cost of separate materials collection and processing. Even if you don't make much money in the selling of the material, on balance there is a savings from not sending material into the landfill.

 

[b_arrington]

Another illogical facet to this conversation is the heavy duty plastic packaging covering so much of what we buy. I never hear the enviros talk about that. Why?

The reason for that impenetrable packaging, that will dull your scissors and slice your hands is to get that junk here from China after potentially months at sea.

Let’s make it at home…

That kind of thick plastic is easier to recycle. The bags are quite difficult to do the same. But I agree that I don't like those super hard to open plastic packages.

Amazon noticed too, and has been offering "frustration free" packaging on some items for a while. It comes in a fairly plain cardboard box with no plastic casings. Kinda makes sense when you never actually see the product before you buy it so there's no need for the packaging "sizzle factor". I'll admit I still like a nicely designed package though.

 

[MonacoMike]

I'll admit I still like a nicely designed package though.

Packaging is something I really don’t get into. The waste from presumably a “right think” company like Apple is huge, I just do not appreciate the nuance of it, and they get a pass because they say the what the mob wants to hear, thereby getting a pass.

 

[Blueone]

Packaging is something I really don’t get into. The waste from presumably a “right think” company like Apple is huge, I just do not appreciate the nuance of it, and they get a pass because they say the what the mob wants to hear, thereby getting a pass.

I just got a new iphone and its been a while and I actually thought what a waste the packaging was ....a big white box with a small thin phone in it about 3/8" below the surface...they could get at least 8 phones in the same space.

 

[brewster16]

I laugh at those idiotic Prius owners making themselves feel so wonderful about saving the planet....the whole damn car is made of PLASTIC! What a joke.... Yes, and where do those dopes think the electric comes from that powers their little love bugs?

 

[MonacoMike]

I laugh at those idiotic Prius owners making themselves feel so wonderful about saving the planet....the whole damn car is made of PLASTIC! What a joke....

And mostly powered by coal.

I talked with a guy that is at the national level of electricity transmission and asked how many electric vehicles the current grid can support he said no more than 20% and maybe not that…

 

[JimG]

I actually twitch if I attempt to throw a beer can in the garbage

About once a year I haul off a pickup truck load of cans (mostly 12oz Miller Lite) to the recycle center.

I have a rather large collection of Amazon cardboard boxes of all sizes, Don't really know why I keep them, I guess they're too nice and square to throw away. I use them in my shop to lose things in.....when I sell all my excess on ebay, I'm all Set :]

Wow, and I thought I was the only one doing these things... Part of my retirement plan is to sell off my excess also!

 

[MonacoMike]

I just got a new iphone and its been a while and I actually thought what a waste the packaging was ....a big white box with a small thin phone in it about 3/8" below the surface...they could get at least 8 phones in the same space.

The ipad is even worse…

 

[zool]

[/QUOTE]Wow, and I thought I was the only one doing these things... Part of my retirement plan is to sell off my excess also![/QUOTE]

Yeah, every once in a while, the Admiral tells me if something happens to me, she will be stuck with "all that stuff I have out back". I tell here if she starts to see me selling it off, the end in near :]

 

[b_arrington]

I laugh at those idiotic Prius owners making themselves feel so wonderful about saving the planet....the whole damn car is made of PLASTIC! What a joke.... Yes, and where do those dopes think the electric comes from that powers their little love bugs?

The plastics don't have a lot of impact until they are disposed of, and can be turned into something else.

These questions are totally valid though, and that's why so many companies are engaging in complete Life Cycle Analyses (LCA). They look at the total "cradle to grave" impact of their products from the creation of all parts, assembly, use, and eventual disposal. For most products, the most impact is not in the use but in the manufacturing process and at end of life. More and more companies are doing LCA and then changing their processes / products to reduce the impact at all stages. It can get really complex and you have to draw the lines as to the boundaries of the LCA, but it can be very useful.

As an example, I'm in the office equipment business. The company I work for does an LCA on the entire life of a copier from inception to disposal including energy use to make it, ship it, run it, and dispose of it. We've been doing it for years. Through LCA, we've eliminated hazardous chemicals in the products (lead, cadmium, mercury in electronics boards), made the products way lighter (reduced shipping costs and fuel usage), and designed them so they are easier to recycle at end of life. The engineers also make them more durable so they have a longer life. The products do have a lot of plastics, and many of the panels are make from bioplastic. Many are also used from materials that can be more easily recycled and turned into something else. We have a big toner container / print cartridge take-back program, going on 25 years. The cartridges are either refurbed and refilled, or disassembled to recover the parts and recycled for raw materials. The plastics are either turned into fuel that powers the factory, or turned into pellets for new products. We have a big set of benches on the campus that are made from returned print cartridges.

I'm not what I'd consider a tree-hugger, but my company does have a strong mission to be environmentally responsible in our operations. It turns out to make good business sense for us, too.

 

[b_arrington]

Packaging is something I really don’t get into. The waste from presumably a “right think” company like Apple is huge, I just do not appreciate the nuance of it, and they get a pass because they say the what the mob wants to hear, thereby getting a pass.

I guess I like nice packaging because it sets the tone for the product. A well designed package makes it feel like the manufacturer cares about what they make, and put effort into it. The association to me is if they put in the extra mile for a nice package think about how much effort went into the product itself. Maybe it's corny, but it "feels" better than just throwing it in a box.

That said, Apple boxes feel too durable and nice to just throw out. The boxes certainly have gotten smaller over the years, and have eliminated plastic in favor of paper-based packaging. Being in the print business, I certainly appreciate the nice graphics on them. Maybe I'm overthinking it? I dunno - but that's the association to me.

 

[Blueone]

I guess I like nice packaging because it sets the tone for the product. A well designed package makes it feel like the manufacturer cares about what they make, and put effort into it. The association to me is if they put in the extra mile for a nice package think about how much effort went into the product itself. Maybe it's corny, but it "feels" better than just throwing it in a box.

That said, Apple boxes feel too durable and nice to just throw out. The boxes certainly have gotten smaller over the years, and have eliminated plastic in favor of paper-based packaging. Being in the print business, I certainly appreciate the nice graphics on them. Maybe I'm overthinking it? I dunno - but that's the association to me.

See I am totally the opposite…. Put the product I want in a paper bag and I am good to go

in my business packaging is a necessary evil… we are always fighting to reduce cost yet keep integrity of the part. I put more effort into packaging the first six months on a new product introduction then I do on manufacturing times.

years ago the customer would help develop returnables and pay for it… basically we would design it prototype it and test it…. They would approve. Those days are gone now it’s all on the supplier

 

[b_arrington]

See I am totally the opposite…. Put the product I want in a paper bag and I am good to go

in my business packaging is a necessary evil… we are always fighting to reduce cost yet keep integrity of the part. I put more effort into packaging the first six months on a new product introduction then I do on manufacturing times.

There is certainly and art to packaging, and it can be obscenely expensive.

I was working with a supplier for making metal printer cabinets. The packaging was very plain and utilitarian but still something like 20-25% of our total landed cost, and that was at the lower end of some of what they do. We initially tried a less costly packaging to reduce out overall cost to customers. But we had so much shipping damage, there was a lot of product returns and losses. We needed something more robust in order to protect the product and not have our dealers be furious at "cheaping out" and incurring delivery delays. The dealers can't install a copier if the cabinet is damaged, and they don't get paid until it's installed. Most of these things are JIT delivery to them, so they don't have an extra sitting around.

 

[Espos4]

I laugh at those idiotic Prius owners making themselves feel so wonderful about saving the planet....the whole damn car is made of PLASTIC! What a joke.... Yes, and where do those dopes think the electric comes from that powers their little love bugs?

Actually a Prius produces its own battery power from the engine. And I do like this bumper sticker….

 

[Blueone]

I completely understand your initial reaction to the plastic bag ban. It can be a bit inconvenient at first, especially when you're used to the convenience of those thin plastic bags. But in the long run, it's a step in the right direction for the environment.

You have to be kidding me. Do you k ow most recycling goes to a landfill…… probably NJ is the same.

We need to change the makeup of plastic so it can be recycled then put up proper recycling facilities to recycle the material propedly

Banning a bag or a straw is a waste of time right now if you look at the big picture

 

[Stray Current]

Odd zombie thread to pick for a first post

 

[JayhawkCurtis]

Odd zombie thread to pick for a first post

Yea im guessing he wont be back, hope im wrong tho, might be fun

 

[Yendor]

Lunatic liberals. . . . Why does anyone listen to mentally ill people?

Those who do, have been indoctrinated (read conditioned) by both our education system and the mass media to believe that 'they' are the ones with all the answers and that anyone who promotes logic or looking at History are the ones that will be the end of Society as they have come to know it.

Ironically, as the numbers of these mentally lazy lunatics increases daily, their end expectation is becoming ever more inevitable; although for reasons exactly opposite of what they have been told, and outside the scope of what they are able to perceive.

 

[Yendor]

Odd zombie thread to pick for a first post

This is a good observation, and one that I embarrassingly didn't make.
Whether that guy did the same thing or not, there is no way to tell . . . . YET.

Me thinks, he just showed up and proved my point.
He will be happy all day thinking he did his part to save the world.
God Help Us.