Messed up Props (hit ground) - 390 DA

jff

jff

Member
Mar 29, 2008
510
Atlanta
Boat Info
2017 Crest Pontoon
Engines
Yamaha
I was driving in a big channel right off the main channel yesterday and hit ground - fortunately it looks like the ground was just at prop level. No damage to rudders, seals, shafts, etc. (from what I can tell). Will know for sure when the boat comes out of the water Monday. The props are pretty flared up/messed around the edges though, both props (I put on a mask when it happened and inspected from in the water).

My question is, anyone have any suggestions for me as I go through this replacement process and secondarily, with regards specifically to the 390 DA anything in particular I should be checking, be aware of, consider, etc.?

Thanks!
Jason
 
Two weeks ago a friend in his 2005 390DA gasser ran aground in Jersey...(ICW 116A... well known area of concern). Long story short, the boat was brought in to the local MM. He replaced both props, one strut and one shaft. When they were getting ready to re-launch, they noticed some tranny fluid in the bilge.....add one tranny to the replacement list. Insurance covered all except his deductible.

Have the pros look it over.....and check your insurance policy.
 
Biggest question I have is that you didn't specify how fast you were going in the channel.
If you were at idle speed, *probably* no damage to shafts or struts.
However, if you were running at planing speed, there's a substantial chance that you could have bent the struts, shafts, or both.
If either is badly damaged it can be determined visually at time of haul-out; however, either way you should pull the shafts and have them sent to the yard along with the props to be checked for trueness. Once the shafts are pulled the struts can be checked for alignment and then pulled/sent out for alignment if necessary.

Hope you don't have V-drives...
Good luck.
 
When you get back from looking at the remaining balance in your check book now that you are warned how bad this could be, take it one step at a time.

You can see the props are damaged....first pull them and send them to the prop shop for reconditioning. Get them trued and balanced while they are doing their magic.......in our area, reconditioning a pair of props will cost about $475.

Next check the run-out on the shafts where the props seat. This needs to be done accurately with a dial indicator......not by some yard rat holding a screwdriver against a rudder. If you have bent a shaft, it will be obvious. Shafts can be straightened if you have a good and expeirenced machine shop where you are. Otherwise, expect to spend $1000-$1200 each for new ones. If the shafts are straight, there is almost no chance that you tewaked a strut. However, if you were or a rocky bottom, look at the bronze strut carefully for physical damage. There will be marks on it if you hit it hard enough to bend it.

If the worst case happened and you did bend a shaft or scarred up a strut, then you need to have the alignment of the whole drive line checked. This is not a do-it-yourself job, not is it one I would trust to a run of the mill yard who just paints bottoms and stores boats. Look for someone who has experience with running gear repairs or take it to your dealership.

I agree with tobnpr, how fast you were running and the engine rpms at the time of the grounding are going to determine how big the check you write will be.
 
dom
not to hijack, but i've heard a lot abt this area (116A) and as i carefully passed through there this week (twice) i cant help but wonder how do you run aground in 30-40 ft of water? is it because there is an confluence of channels here, which i admit can be confusing. i THINK this is the area but i cant quite make out the number on the marker. it may be 116 b/c it has a light and 116A is not a lit marker. i snapped the pic b/c of the shoal just outside of the channel. we were heading south, the photo is looking west.

100_0805.jpg
 
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That looks like it Ron....notice the ripple just west of that marker....at low tide, you can see the mud/sand. There are a two channels bifurcating right in that area.....It's very close to the LEI so fog is also prevalent in the area. I know three people personally who have run aground in that area....ALL three claim that they were in the channel. I don't argue with them....But you are right...it IS confusing if you stop paying your full attention and take for granted which markers are the ICW markers. I tell folks all the time...If you don't see a gold square or gold triangle on the marker...it AIN'T the ICW....
 
Everything Frank stated above is correct and accurate. The boat has to come out of the water to properly check all underwater hardware.

The incident I sighted above is recent and accurate.

I stand by my statement ....Have the pros look at it over.....and check your insurance policy.
 
if that's 116, then it's north of 116a. i guess you just have to stay in the middle wherever the heck you are. on the chart, it looks like 116a has a reaching shoal to the east, which is probably why that marker was dropped in as an afterthought (thus the A designation). i actually got confused here myself the morning we left BH for AC and had to throttle back to get my bearings. heading back i mindlessly followed my breadcrumbs and never dropped out of warp speed. this photo was taken at around 9:30am - high tide this day at that spot was around 6am.
 
Thanks everyone. A guy on my dock did it himself with a diver but I agree with you guys - I'm going to have it hauled out and inspected. I was running about 3400 rpms, on plane, not sure what mph - definitely not at idle speed. :(

Not to hiijack my own thread but the other question I have is suggestions of type of prop to replace with (aluminum, steel, etc.). Anyone done this specifically on a 390 DA?

Thanks again everyone for your insight!

Regards,
Jason
 
PS - In terms of the props, I'm not even sure what I have. Sea Ray has a prop chart on their site through 2005 (I have a 2005 390 DA) however it's only up to 34'.
 
You have bronze props.......Sea Ray used to use Federal Equipoise, but I'm not sure what is on the later boats.

These guys are not like outboards or i/o's where you can pick and choose metallurgy, pitch, dia etc. Sea Ray does a lot of engineering matching the wheels to the hull form and application and the props are tweaked for each boat. Very little except a ton of expense can be gained from a change since you will have to haul, re-pitch, tweak the new props for the boat......unless your prop guy is both a genius and a really lucky guesser.

The other issue is the metallurgy. Bronze is the metal of choice in part because the props are sacrificial to the entire drive line. Bronze is soft and will give, as you discovered. If you had stainless props, the wheels would be a lot tougher and you would need much larger shafting and a sacrificial coupling in the drive line to protect the transmission and engine.

My guess is that you won't need to buy new props but just to recondition the one you have.......so it'll be a haul out and a few hundred $ instead of several haul outs and several thousand $.
 
Thanks Frank, good info. I'm leaning towards buying new props, having a diver put them on (big savings) and then offline reconditioning the old set as a spare. Then drive it and see how it drives, hopefully no vibration/problem. I spent about an hour underneath the boat today and everything looks perfect except the props - but of course there could be problems I can't visually see. Our lift is closed this week so I can't get the boat pulled even if I wanted to (without driving it across the lake and making some kind of transport arrangements to get it from that lift to the shop), if I do the plan above I can have the boat (assuming everything works well with the new props) for labor day. I know, I know ... would be ideal to have it pulled and inspected. Maybe after labor day. :)

I got the numbers off the props by the way, they are:

Port - 21 x 22.5 LH
Star - 21 x 22 RH

being a novice I was expecting them to be the same. ? For anyone interested, prop pic attached.

Regards,
Jason
 
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Jason: if that's the extent of your problems, you're doing ok. that is easily repaired by a prop shop. not sure where you boat but i highly recommend a shop that uses PROPSCAN. these guys have it down to a science and will store all your prop stats so that if you get whacked again, they can put it all back with computer precision.

http://www.propscanusa.com/between_page.htm

these guys are very well versed in the searay hull (namely prop pockets/tunnels) and can sometimes make tiny tweaks that have been improvements on the original design.

if you are thinking about a new set of props, try a different number of blades. i guess you have 3 bladers (?) - if you're itchin to drop a couple of grand on new props, try 4 bladers; but, again, consult with a reputable prop shop for recommendations for pitch and size so that the engines will be loaded properly.
 
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I'm not sure where you boat and if you kicked up some mud/sand/gunk but make sure you also look into the cooling system... Not that I would have first hand experience... someone told me...
 
Huh, you would think I would remember after staring at the props for hours today - I'm about 99% sure though they are 4-blade so that's what I plan to go with again. I'm not itching to spend a couple of grand, but so it goes.

Gary, hmm ... I'll check into that and ask around. You bring up a good point though, I'm not sure where all the water intakes are but I should also check my sea strainers just in case, will do that tomorrow.

Regards,
Jason
 
Jason, you have Teinbridge props that are not bronze but nibral. From the looks of the damage you probably are going to be ok on the rest of the underwater gear. When in ST Mary's Georgia, I ran aground and the leading edge of the props were cupped about the same amount I see in your picture. I would say they were not extensively damaged. A machine shop in Brunswick Ga named Domineys trued up both props for about $275 for the pair.
As far as price for two new props, you can expect to pay about $1300 for the pair. You have aquamet shafts that are class 19. If you need one of those you will pay about $1100.

You mention that the specs for the props are different from one another. That is because of the need to compensate for the difference in transmission gear ratios between fwd and reverse. Since your props are counter rotating and your engine crankshafts are not, while you have both engines in fwd gear one transmission is set up to run in reverse while the other is in fwd. Thus the reason for a slightly different prop pitch. The spec plates that are riveted to your transmissions will indicate what I am trying to explain. I hope I am explaining this adequately.

Hope this helps.
 
You guys really know your stuff, thanks for all the info. Bluebelly (or anyone else), any suggestions on where to get replacement props for these? I'd like to get a replacement set quick, get them on and then worry about getting the old set fixed 'offline' ...

Regards,
Jason
 
JASON,

The phone number to teignbridge is 1-616-667-8758. They will be able to tell you where you can buy the replacements from a online retailer. I would not buy them from Marine Max since they will charge about 30 to 50 % more than what you could do online. You will have to be specific about describing your boat since the "cupping" of the leading edge is a feature that is not indicated by the 21x22 stamped on the hub of your propellers. More than likely Sea Ray specified the cupping for the performance characteristics of your specific boat. If you plan on staying in freshwater, and you are committed to buying new propellers, then now is the time to maybe order the props with either a little more pitch or a little less pitch. Any boat will perform differently in freshwater compared to salt water. Saltwater is more dense and therefore the hydrodynamics of the hull and props moving through the salt water is an advantage compared to fresh water. Your boat was tested at the factory in saltwater and therefore the props they selected may not be exactly right for fresh water. Do you know if your boat could reach the recommeded WOT? If while in freshwater you could not get your engines to rev up to the mercruiser stated WOT, then a half of an inch reduction of pitch may be in order.

When you get the props off the boat I would recommend sending them to Domineys in Brunswick Ga. Tyler Dominey is who you can contact directly. Go to dominey.com. I cannot more highly recommend them. Should be about a 7 to 10 turn around time by ups ground.

HOPE THIS HELPS
 
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