Looking for some boat buying advice

[WannaBoat]

Hi All,

I am hoping to get some advice on what would meet some requirement for a Searay sport yacht. I am 45, live in Tampa, and last summer was about to pull the trigger on a 2005 360. I have personally only previously owned tournament ski boats, with the exception of a single Baja I/O back in the 90s. Due to some personal life changes (i.e. separation), I decided to hold off on the 360. Since then, my older sister and her husband now have now entered the boating craze. They spent the last few weekends in east coast Florida on a friend's 38' Tiara, and now want to buy a boat. And they also want to buy a condo in Florida to keep the boat at (they live in Louisville, KY, and are both pilots). So the Florida condo, and the boating, would be for long weekends and a week or two at a time. I am 4 hours away by car, but have a very flexible work schedule. We would be partnering 3-ways, and are thinking in the 200K-250K ballpark. We could go more. We could also go less ...Sorry for the long background, but I am hoping it will help get me some good advice...

Here are some of the requirements:

1) Seaworthiness - they love the Tiara because of the weight, wider beams and just pure reputation. While the Tiara is awesome, it is really decked out for topside activities (live bait boxes, huge open fishing area, etc). I am more about the comfort below.
2) Hard Top (for brother-in-law it is a must)
2) Comfortably sleep 4, hopefully more. 2 separate cabins preferable (vs curtains, etc)
3) Diesels (I am assuming). But which ones (if optional)
4) While intercoastal cruising is great, we would like to run to Bahamas, Bimini, the keys, etc for extended trips.
5) Sundancer or Sedan Bridge?
6) Maintenance concerns? I am pretty mechanical (i.e. replacing things like alternators, routine engine maintenance, electrical systems (I am an Electrical Engineer by education), but have ZERO experience with diesel. What needs to be done annually? Monthly? every other year? (i.e. zincs, bottom paint, etc)
7) It would be nice to be able to store a few SCUBA tanks someplace
8) Some casual fishing
9) Is there anything we should stay away from? (aka known engine water ingestion issues on certain years, known leaks into cabins, etc)
10) Fuel efficiency (stop laughing...) Something that gets 1.1 miles to the gallon would be preferable to something that gets .7 MPG.

I am initially thinking something like a 2006 420 Sundancer?? But then I see things like the 420 Sedan Bridge.

We are trying to balance that we want to buy the biggest and best, but this is only a part time activity...

Any advice, and I mean ANY, would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[magstang1]

A boat of that caliber is beyond my means at this time so I can't really speak about that issue. My concern would be about splitting the boat between 3 owners.

Have you discussed how all the costs will be divided? Fuel, maintenance, cleaning... What happens if someone hits a submerged object while underway? What happens if you blow an engine while underway because someone else didn't check the oil?


I may not have experience with a boat of this size (yet), but a bad day could easily turn into tens of thousands of dollars very quickly. Even the best of friends could have disagreements about things like that.


On the bright side, it's a fantastic proposition to even have this option available to you. Good luck, and choose wisely. I don't think you can make a bad choice when it comes to a boat of this size.

 

[Pilot]

Unfortunately, I've heard many a horror story about partnering on boat ownership. Despite everyone's best intentions, IMO I'd say don't do it. The money savings is not worth it as boats need a lot of TLC and maintenance. You typically will spend more time on maintenance than actually running/using the boat. So you being 4 hours away and them not around much, doesn't sound like the boat will get the attention it needs to stay clean and operational.

 

[fwebster]

Boat partnerships almost never work out as the partners intend. However, a lot of the heartache and ill feelings can be avoided if you thoroughly document the terms of your partnership as a part of your partnership agreement. Yes, it needs to be in writing and with all the principals signing.

Some of the important stuff upon which to reach agreement in advance are:

1. Schedule of use.......who gets the boat when, who keeps the master schedule, how do you handle adjustments to the schedule
2. Operating expenses .....how do the partners "pay the boat" for operating expenses like fuel, oil, wash,wax,detailing, haulouts, bottom maintenance.....on a per hour of use basis ??
3. Repairs/maintenance.......how do the partners pay a fair share of the maintenance and repair cost. Some of this isn't related to hours of use but just to owning a boat
4. Emergencies.......who does what when there is an emergency like a hurricane or tropical storm, power outage, etc.

You also need to incorporate a formula for buying each other out of the partnership in the event that one of you decided to move on or just get out. By agreeing to t he buy out in advance it makes you think about the bad side of partnering and you are a lot more likely to agree upon a decent and fair formula before you all start hating each other.

The legal aspects are also important. Each of you just throwing in 1/3 of the cash to buy the boat also makes you partners in the legal sense of the word and makes each of you fully liable for acts of the others in any damage they cause or comittments they make for the boat. Suppose your relative decides she wants a pink boat and has the new Tiara painted Mary Kay pink, then runs off to Costa Rica with Carlos the pool boy at the condo, her soon-to-be- ex husband returns to Kentucky and they leave you with a bill for a $40,000 pink paint job. Guess what.......you are personally liable for it. Personally, I would never own a partnership boat unless it were held by a corporation that partitioned me from the acts (negligent or intentional) of others.

I think agreeing on what boat to buy is a very minor part of your consideration here...................

 

[WannaBoat]

Thanks all. We will definitely be doing it under legal contract. We discussed forming an LLC, but need to investigate more. We all agree that we all need to be protected legally for all the points mentioned above, and we will be crossing that bridge.

This ownership situation will parallel 2 friends in the same condo complex (one has an older 50' Sundancer, the other has the 38' Tiara). The 38' Tiara owner is also an "out of towner" pilot. The solution to keeping things clean for him comes down to paying people when he is not around. He's got a monthly diver, some cleaning folks, etc. Split 3 ways, these additional expenses become a lot more convenient But seriously, I do understand the complexities involved, as well as the risk. It is not an ideal situation, but it will afford all 3 of us the opportunity to get more boat than we would normally, while splitting the financial risk (i.e. depreciation) of such a luxury item.

So, assuming no partnership, and this is a boat for just me, any advice regarding the original post?

 

[All's Well]

If you're going to run for the islands, I'd definately go for diesels.

My opinion is a 46 - 48 - 50 is the right size to handle big open water. Solid boats of this size will be in the 250 - 300 range as a starting point but there are plenty of them in the FL market.

All good points on the ownership dilema above.

 

[Ididntdoit]

an '05 420 Dancer with diesels would be a great boat....two separate staterooms, two heads, economy close to where you want to be, hard top, etc. Can probably buy a nice one for $225k

 

[rcknecht]

How about a 46 Da? You should be able to get a hard top in your price range.

 

[mainstream]

I have been looking for about a year for a larger boat to keep in Fla for the winter and I have found that if you are trying to go for larger and trying to keep fuel efficient its a loosing proposition the best boat for fuel is the 420 da that will get you the economy you are looking for once you start going larger the mpg drop to .88,.77 and so on for cruising speed I am leaning to the new 510 with Zeus within the next year or two as I get closer to retiring. I would just figure on getting what you want and drive the boat as economical as you can. But if you worry about the economy you wont enjoy the boat.Like every one told me when I got into larger cruisers fuel economy and boating don't mix. Good luck and enjoy the hunt

 

[spfortjohn]

I would run not walk far away from any partnership on a boat or condo. We are in a three way partnership with our condo for ten years. Has not been fun since day one. It is up for sale now and we are going to do a house or condo on our own

 

[skolbe]

Two people did that on a 50 foot plus Sundancer and within a month one of the partners ran it into a rock dike and ripped about 25 feet of the bottom after ripping through a no wake area damaging boats. I think I would rather have a smaller boat like a 340 and enjoy owning it myself.

 

[WannaBoat]

Thanks all for the boat advice, as well as the partnership advice.

 

[BlackLabMediaGroup]

Here are some of the requirements:

1) Seaworthiness - they love the Tiara because of the weight, wider beams and just pure reputation. While the Tiara is awesome, it is really decked out for topside activities (live bait boxes, huge open fishing area, etc). I am more about the comfort below.
Seaworthiness- Any Dancer over 40ft. will be ideal. If your looking for a 420Dancer or somewhere around there, you'll be fine. Sedan Bridge will give you a little rock and roll when things are getting heavy, but not too crazy. Depends how you're going to use it. I doubt you'll be out in 4-7 foot seas.
2) Hard Top (for brother-in-law it is a must)
Yup
2) Comfortably sleep 4, hopefully more. 2 separate cabins preferable (vs curtains, etc)
10-4
3) Diesels (I am assuming). But which ones (if optional)
40ft+ diesels are standard. HP- Some is good, More is better. Depending on the year, you have the option for VDrive or Pods
4) While intercoastal cruising is great, we would like to run to Bahamas, Bimini, the keys, etc for extended trips.
Who wouldn't
5) Sundancer or Sedan Bridge?
Depends on your preference, do you want a larger living space inside, or do you like to spend more time outside? Depends on the style of the sedan bridge, you can have the best of both worlds. But more times then not, the bridge boat lacks outdoor lounge space.
6) Maintenance concerns? I am pretty mechanical (i.e. replacing things like alternators, routine engine maintenance, electrical systems (I am an Electrical Engineer by education), but have ZERO experience with diesel. What needs to be done annually? Monthly? every other year? (i.e. zincs, bottom paint, etc)
Maintenance: You're in the south, so winterization is not a concern. Think of the following:
Bottom Paint(yearly), Oil changes on engine and lower units if you have pods, fuel!!!, Routine maintenance to keep things running top notch Your best bet is to find the yard that is proficient with your type vessel, and bring it to them on a quarterly schedule to maintain and service.
7) It would be nice to be able to store a few SCUBA tanks someplace
On a 40+ footer, there's room for tanks.
8) Some casual fishing
Now we're back in the Tiara, not a SeaRay
9) Is there anything we should stay away from? (aka known engine water ingestion issues on certain years, known leaks into cabins, etc)
Rule of thumb- Newer=Better; and low hours does not always meen a better boat
10) Fuel efficiency (stop laughing...) Something that gets 1.1 miles to the gallon would be preferable to something that gets .7 MPG.
​OK-

With all this said you are still missing on big thing- budget-