I am a new member for the board and need help, I have a lake home and have recently attended boat shows and decided on a 07 280 sundancer, here is the problem I am not an experience boater and I am concerned about the price and I initially wanted just a single engine (375 hp), but everyone has told me since I am making big mistake. they are asking 105k for the boat loaded with generator, can anyone help me on this decision for a lake boat on power and price. I have to decide by saturday. thank you
looking at new 07 280 sundancer please help
- Thread starter toddoo
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sbw1
Well-Known Member
- Oct 10, 2006
- 8,185
- Boat Info
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- Engines
- This is listed in my signature
It would be helpful to know the size of your lake, if it dumps into the great lakes, ICW or ocean. How deep is the water at your house? How deep is your lake?
The advantages of a single engine boat are easier maintenance (theres plenty of engine compartment space with a single), less maintenance cost, and lower intial cost. The disadvantages with a single engine is it won't be as easy to maneuver when docking and you don't have that "spare" engine that brings a measure of security with twins. It may also be more difficult to re-sell it on the open market for those same two reasons.
If you do decide to go with twins, then I would opt for the V6s. They are plenty powerfull and will give you an extra measure of space in the engine compartment. I don't think you will find the overall performance between the single big block and the V6s to be much different either.
Since I just bought a new 260DA with a single engine (and I boat on an inland lake too) I can tell you that having a single will be just fine on your lake. We have a number of single engines 280s in our Marina as well and the owners like them just fine. If I had to make the choice then it would be based on how concerned I was about resale. There will be a lot more folks that would consider buying a used 280DA with twins but might not want the boat if it has a single engine. Usually anyone that has a boat that size that boats on the Ocean or the Great Lakes will not consider it without twins.
If you do decide to go with twins, then I would opt for the V6s. They are plenty powerfull and will give you an extra measure of space in the engine compartment. I don't think you will find the overall performance between the single big block and the V6s to be much different either.
Since I just bought a new 260DA with a single engine (and I boat on an inland lake too) I can tell you that having a single will be just fine on your lake. We have a number of single engines 280s in our Marina as well and the owners like them just fine. If I had to make the choice then it would be based on how concerned I was about resale. There will be a lot more folks that would consider buying a used 280DA with twins but might not want the boat if it has a single engine. Usually anyone that has a boat that size that boats on the Ocean or the Great Lakes will not consider it without twins.
sbw1
Well-Known Member
- Oct 10, 2006
- 8,185
- Boat Info
- This is listed in my signature
- Engines
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Sounds like you don't need a twin, but it is nice to have. Look around the marinas in your market. If the boats are mostly single i/os, that type of boat will sell well in your market. If they are mostly twin same thing. If 280s are unusual in your area due to the size of the lake or the presence of strong competitors, your bargaining position should be pretty strong when you buy, and it could be a hard sell when you change boats. Given the reliability of engines today I would not shy away from a single if that is the market. I boated thousands of hours on single i/o boats and never had an engine failure. It all boils down to doing the maintenance properly.
Idaho spud
New Member
- Jan 16, 2007
- 33
I recommend the twins. I had a 260 with a single and traded up to a 280 with twin 4.3's with alpha drives. That was based on advice from my dealer who is one square shooter. The difference in handling in close quarters is night and day. In addition the ride under power is better because the power is spread across the stern rather than coming from one point. I also boat on an inland lake so I could have gotten by with a single from a safety standpoint but from a handling, comfort and pure enjoyment standpoint it is a no brainer. The gas consumption is not much different and true, you need to spend a few hundred dollars a year more in maintenance but as part of the overall cost of owning a boat it is a pitance.
Scholarship
New Member
Toddoo...We have a 2004 280 with the twin V-6's and a generator on Lake Texoma. While we made the rounds at boat shows to do our initial shopping, we never considered buying new as it wasn't too hard to find a slightly used (68 hours on engine, 25 on generator). All it took was some patience and some driving around. We bought our boat in a private sale from a nice couple in Dallas. In the end we got a "like new" boat and saved a ton of money. We lake tested both the twins and the single 496 before we decided on the twins and we have been very happy with our decision.
We have two boys (9 & 13) and the boat is perfect for us. Which lake will you be on and where will you keep her?
We have two boys (9 & 13) and the boat is perfect for us. Which lake will you be on and where will you keep her?
keokie
Well-Known Member
- Dec 27, 2006
- 1,486
- Boat Info
- 2002 310 Sundancer, Westerbeke 4.5 Genset
- Engines
- 496's, Bravo III's, 2.2:1 Gears
The 280 is a great boat. I am very familiar with it. Probably the best layout of any 28 footer. With your type of boating, I don't think you have a need for the twin for safety.
The V6's with alphas will give you some handling improvement around the docks. The maintenance costs (and work) will be double and a lot more difficult if you do it yourself due to space. And the twins are usually a bit noisier.
If it were me, I would get the 5.0's with Bravo III's. I believe both the 496 and the twin 4.3's are underpowered, and in my market, neither sell nearly as well as the 5.0's.
No matter what you do, lake test the boat extensively with full fuel, full water, some gear, and at least 4 large adults. Put it on plane numerous times paying close attention to how much throttle it takes. See what the minimum RPM required to stay on plane without the tabs is. What RPM will provide a nice cruise where the boat is fully on plane.
I prefer boats that have a good cruise at around 3000 to 3400 rpm at the most. Another thing to chek is WOT RPM. It should be near the top end of the manufacturer's recommendation. Then, evaluate your props and outdrive gear ratios. On Alpha's a 17 pitch prop with a 1.5:1 gear ratio that will reach 4800 RPM WOT is minimalist for me (I would like a 21, but could live with a 19). On Bravo's 24's with 2.0:1 gears will usually give adequate performance.
To give a better idea of my viewpoint, I rarely run at higher speeds in either of my boats. However, I like to get on plane easily even with 8 or ten people on board, and I like to cruise close to 3000 RPM. Boats are pretty well insulated these days, but have you ever raised the hatch on a boat at 3800RPM? It will get you attention.
As far as price, I do that better with used boats. I can tell you a dock mate bought a new '05 280 in '05 with all the options, a trailer, and twin 5.0's with BIII's for a claimed $112K
Best of Luck. Let us know what you decide.
The V6's with alphas will give you some handling improvement around the docks. The maintenance costs (and work) will be double and a lot more difficult if you do it yourself due to space. And the twins are usually a bit noisier.
If it were me, I would get the 5.0's with Bravo III's. I believe both the 496 and the twin 4.3's are underpowered, and in my market, neither sell nearly as well as the 5.0's.
No matter what you do, lake test the boat extensively with full fuel, full water, some gear, and at least 4 large adults. Put it on plane numerous times paying close attention to how much throttle it takes. See what the minimum RPM required to stay on plane without the tabs is. What RPM will provide a nice cruise where the boat is fully on plane.
I prefer boats that have a good cruise at around 3000 to 3400 rpm at the most. Another thing to chek is WOT RPM. It should be near the top end of the manufacturer's recommendation. Then, evaluate your props and outdrive gear ratios. On Alpha's a 17 pitch prop with a 1.5:1 gear ratio that will reach 4800 RPM WOT is minimalist for me (I would like a 21, but could live with a 19). On Bravo's 24's with 2.0:1 gears will usually give adequate performance.
To give a better idea of my viewpoint, I rarely run at higher speeds in either of my boats. However, I like to get on plane easily even with 8 or ten people on board, and I like to cruise close to 3000 RPM. Boats are pretty well insulated these days, but have you ever raised the hatch on a boat at 3800RPM? It will get you attention.
As far as price, I do that better with used boats. I can tell you a dock mate bought a new '05 280 in '05 with all the options, a trailer, and twin 5.0's with BIII's for a claimed $112K
Best of Luck. Let us know what you decide.
thank you to everyone who responded to my question, the information has made an impact on my decision and I have contacted the marina I am dealing with and they have told me that for a upcharge of 5k I can go to the twins (entry level twins I am sure) on the 07 loaded the same for 110k. I think I am going to go in that direction but like I said I have until saturday if anyone else has a story or something they would like to say on boat or price, I agree with some of the members in that I love the layout of the 280 and I think it is the best on the market and I dont mind paying for some of the extra in buying a new boat I know it isnt smart but I cant lie I am kinda excited. once again thank you to all and I will post as I go over the next couple weeks.
thanks toddoo
thanks toddoo
I would urge you to get the twins not from a safety standpoint but strictly from a boating one. Learning to operate a twin engine boat will enhance your appreciation and enjoyment, in addition to supplementing your piloting skills. It's the natural progression to becoming more expert and is a great stepping stone if you decide to upgrade to a larger boat in the future.
widowmaker
New Member
Let us know how it works out!
BrentJones
Member
Just curious, how well did you do on price and negotiatiing?Scholarship said:
Scholarship
New Member
Brent...the boat we purchased was one of four we were actively shopping in Oklahoma, Missouri and Texas. The couple wanted $95K when we first spoke with them in July 2006. They had put in an electric hatch, optima batteries, a custom bow pad, and several other nice add-ons. But I wasn't interested at $95K. In mid-August we saw that they had reduced to price to $90K and we made an appointment to view their boat in Dallas a week later. By this time we had a deal working for a similar 2003 for $77,500 at Grand Lake in Oklahoma (only difference was that the Grand Lake boat had a single 496).
When we got to Dallas the boat was just about perfect in every way, except for the price. I offered $81K which I thought was a low but fair premium over the 2003. A week later they countered at $85K. I think the boat was easily worth $85 but I declined as I wasn't in any rush and knew the right deal would happen sooner or later. However I made sure that they knew that my $81K offer would be good for a week as I couldn't lake test the boat at Grand until the following week.
The next day they called me to tell me we had a deal. They were paying premium slip fees and I think the thought of 6 more months of payments, slip fees and insurance through the winter months was just too much to take. In all honesty, I also think they liked us and knew that their boat would be going to a good home.
The couple had bought the boat new in 2004 and had to bring a sizable check to closing. That made us feel a little guilty but I then again they could have always said no. I have spoken to the couple several times since we made the purchase to let them know how much we appreciated them taking such great care of Blithe Spirit. It was a pretty happy ending for both parties.
When we got to Dallas the boat was just about perfect in every way, except for the price. I offered $81K which I thought was a low but fair premium over the 2003. A week later they countered at $85K. I think the boat was easily worth $85 but I declined as I wasn't in any rush and knew the right deal would happen sooner or later. However I made sure that they knew that my $81K offer would be good for a week as I couldn't lake test the boat at Grand until the following week.
The next day they called me to tell me we had a deal. They were paying premium slip fees and I think the thought of 6 more months of payments, slip fees and insurance through the winter months was just too much to take. In all honesty, I also think they liked us and knew that their boat would be going to a good home.
The couple had bought the boat new in 2004 and had to bring a sizable check to closing. That made us feel a little guilty but I then again they could have always said no. I have spoken to the couple several times since we made the purchase to let them know how much we appreciated them taking such great care of Blithe Spirit. It was a pretty happy ending for both parties.
Bridog
Well-Known Member
toddoo, Why do you have until Sat to decide? Don't let the dealer pressure you into something you might later regret. If that is the boat for you then get the twins. Better deals will be out there. Don't rush into anything. Don't be fooled by deadlines, rebates, ect. Kind regards, Brian
Bridog said:
Brian
I just went to our boat show and I think Sea Ray is trying something different this time. Rebate money is only available on some boats if purchased during the show. (I was nearly shocked at the low prices they had on the 240 Sun Decks with this deal...........the price was almost identical to the price they had on the 220 Sun Decks :smt101 ). There may be a way around this deadline, but if toddoo's deal is one of these special rebates I can understand why he is so anxious.
Bridog
Well-Known Member
Dave I hope your right. I realize you know most "boat show deals" can be had with regular negotiations. When I got the deal on my boat, SeaRay was offering no deals at all. (at least not what was available/known to the general public) Anyway, I think it's bad to rush into a purchase that big without doing lots of homework.
thunderbird1
New Member
$105K sounds like a great price to me. A "loaded" 280 with 496 Mag + genset retails in the $150-160K range, right?
We have been looking at different boats and talking about it with my family for about 6 months, but it is a timing issue related to the sale of my current boat, and wanting to get something now to have ready by summer. The boat dealer is of course pushing to get the deal done, but I was the one who said it had to be decided by saturday because my schedule would not allow me to look at another boat for a couple months, I have small kids that play athletics so time is a premium. thanks again for everyones help, I feel good about the boat I have decided on. let you all know later on how the boat worked out thanks again.
toddoo
toddoo
one more thing in relation to the price the final number given with the 4.3 twins alpha 1 is 110,000. Like I told my wife I am sure in the history of boat deals there are plenty of people that can tell me that they have beaten that price, my main concern was that this wasnt the worst deal someone could have gotten and I dont feel that way at all. the msrp on the sea ray web site for this boat was 168,000, and like dave said they certainly wanted me to think the deal was related to the rebates of the boat show, but I went to the show to buy anyway. thanks again everyone. toddoo
