Local Authorities and Boarding in MI and OH

[MonacoMike]

Many of you are aware MI and OH passed laws that require probable cause to pull over vessels in their states waters. No random safety checks allowed. Obviously this does not apply to the CG. Now the police and sheriff departments are circumventing the spirit of the law by putting one CG officer on their boats and acting like they are the CG and using that tactic to do what they want.

MM

 

[Kiteboarder85]

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Pyrojodge]

Wow, I was reading this spring that my area had some of the highest rates of BUI around. They have been out in force from what I've seen.

 

[dpmulvey]

Many of you are aware MI and OH passed laws that require probable cause to pull over vessels in their states waters. No random safety checks allowed. Obviously this does not apply to the CG. Now the police and sheriff departments are circumventing the spirit of the law by putting one CG officer on their boats and acting like they are the CG and using that tactic to do what they want.

MM

It it begs the question.... Does the USCG have the authority to deputize locals? If so I'd like to see the letter of the law that states such. If not, who gives the deadly force authorization to Barney Fife?

 

[MonacoMike]

Wow, I was reading this spring that my area had some of the highest rates of BUI around. They have been out in force from what I've seen.

But that is always a probable cause issue.

MM

 

[Gofirstclass]

It it begs the question.... Does the USCG have the authority to deputize locals? If so I'd like to see the letter of the law that states such. If not, who gives the deadly force authorization to Barney Fife?

Wow, did you ever take a quantum leap here. First we're talking about putting a USCG officer on board a sheriff's boat and all of a sudden you're talking deadly force. Where in the world did that come from?

To answer the question about deputizing sheriff's dept and local police officers, that's not needed. If there is a USCG officer on board any boat he has the authority to pull you over and board you. No probable cause is required.

Now that being said, if what Jason said about the area being infested with BUI boaters, I'm 100% in favor of having as many cops out there as possible checking for BUI's. I've "been there, done that" with getting run into and my boat totaled by a BUI. I have ZERO tolerance for people who drink too much and drive their boat.

 

[MonacoMike]

The law was about minimizing pull overs for flare checks etc. in my area I can be checked by a total of 5 agencies in a 10 mile span.

BUI's were not affected, nor would sobriety check points.

MM

 

[firecadet613]

Forget about the flares, the registration numbers had better be properly spaced by golly, or you'll be hauled to the hoosegow.

That just makes a good excuse to document.

 

[Zorba]

I'm sure for all of us Federally documented boaters, the lack of displayed state registration numbers, is probable cause.

We attended a barge party last weekend at a local sandbar that is known to have many drunks operating vessels and i watched no less than 25 boats be pulled over and boarded. It was like shooting fish in a barrel for the local law enforcement. Curiously the coast guard was nowhere to be found.

 

[dpmulvey]

Wow, did you ever take a quantum leap here. First we're talking about putting a USCG officer on board a sheriff's boat and all of a sudden you're talking deadly force. Where in the world did that come from?

To answer the question about deputizing sheriff's dept and local police officers, that's not needed. If there is a USCG officer on board any boat he has the authority to pull you over and board you. No probable cause is required.

Now that being said, if what Jason said about the area being infested with BUI boaters, I'm 100% in favor of having as many cops out there as possible checking for BUI's. I've "been there, done that" with getting run into and my boat totaled by a BUI. I have ZERO tolerance for people who drink too much and drive their boat.

I don't think so. The locals used this tactic to skirt a local law with fed intervention. How much liberty are you willing to concede? As for deadly force, I've been pulled over my fair share of times and each time there was a trained Coastie at the fun end of a .50 cal.

I'll pass.

 

[Gofirstclass]

David, I'm not willing to concede any freedoms. We live in an area along the Columbia right where the Snake River dumps into it. The waters are patrolled by three county sheriff boats, the F&G and the USCG. While I have not been boarded, I do see the water cops stopping other boats for a variety of illegal moves and also for safety inspections.

I guess I don't see a stop to check for required safety equipment as giving up one's freedom. Boats are not like cars. Cars operate on highways where there are defined lanes, speed limits, traffic control signs, and one must obtain a driver's license before driving a car. Boats, on the other hand, operate where there are no 'traffic controls', no speed limits (except for "no wake" zones) and no licensing requirements (except maybe for passing a very simple boater safety course).

We've all seen bonehead moves done by other boaters. They don't know the nav rules, don't understand which vessel is the burdened and which is the give-way vessel, and often don't have a clue about safe boat operation.

I may be the only one on CSR who feels it's good to have the water cops out there, but I do support them and I'm glad they're out there keeping a lid on things. As one who has been struck by a BUI and had my boat totaled by him, I appreciate all of the ways the water cops can make contact with a boater and while doing that can check his sobriety.

A five minute stop to ensure that the skipper is not drunk and that the boat has the required safety equipment, IMHO does not constitute giving up any freedom.

 

[MonacoMike]

A five minute stop to ensure that the skipper is not drunk and that the boat has the required safety equipment, IMHO does not constitute giving up any freedom.

So GW asks you to run to a town 10 miles away to pick up something for her. This run covers the jurisdictions of the Sate Police, the Sheriff, and 3 local jurisdictions. How many times do you expect to be pulled over to be sure you meet requirements? If three of them did would it frustrate you? Would me. How many times would you think you would be checked on the way home?

Two moderate state governments thought this a big enough deal to pass a law to curb the practice. But of course, law enforcement is above the law.

My friend has to pay a $700 gelcoat repair bill coming from the CG inspection damage.

MM

 

[MonacoMike]

Can he pass the bill on to the Coast Guard for the damage they caused? I know if they damaged my boat in any way, shape or form, I would insist on a written report from them, documenting the damage. If they didn't comply, I would promptly call the Coast Guard. uh...hmm...I think I see a problem here.

Didn't see it until they got back in. They tried but no recourse.

MM

 

[firecadet613]

Didn't see it until they got back in. They tried but no recourse.

MM

I have plenty of pics of my flawless vessel. You'd better believe I'd check her out if they tied up to me on the lake, and they'd be footing the bill.

 

[LTD.330]

Last year Coast Guard Station Marblehead had the record of all CG stations for BUI arrests. In fact 50% of all BUI arrests on the Great Lakes were conducted by station Marblehead.

Zorba, I think the missing CG boats at the Barge Party were all hanging out at Kelly's sniping boats as they left West Bay.

GFC, I respectfully and strongly disagree with your last statement about a five minutes stop not giving up a freedom. They either have probable cause or they don't. If they don't then they are just fishing for an excuse to jam you up.

 

[SloBurn]

They were so many deaths and BUI's on our lake in one year that the local constables-County Sherriff dept, State Police, Townies all went on a rampage pulling everybody over. I even got a written warning for flying an Orange "Skier Flag" with no one actually in the water, while my skier was on the swim platform about to enter water! Now they have run out of money!
Only DEC and local townies on the water now.
Townies are great bunch of guys, very friendly and typically smile and wave as they go by or stop and say "hi, how's everything?" Never a hassle, unless you're a jerk off.

 

[mistercomputerman]

14 U.S. Code § 89 – Law enforcement.
(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.

 

[MonacoMike]

I understand Coast Guard authority, but if congress wanted to make every local authority part of this they well could.

This is about rights vs local authorities and their thumbing their noses at the citizens, their duly elected legislatures, and duly passed laws. They are like an employee, that told what to do by the company owner, the employee thumbs his nose and does what he wishes.

MM

 

[Woody]

I understand Coast Guard authority, but if congress wanted to make every local authority part of this they well could.

This is about rights vs local authorities and their thumbing their noses at the citizens, their duly elected legislatures, and duly passed laws. They are like an employee, that told what to do by the company owner, the employee thumbs his nose and does what he wishes.

MM

I don't know MM...you hear the comment 'they work for us' so often...to me the relationship is more like that of a company and it's stockholders.

 

[src]

"Consent of the governed" means that you get to elect your representatives, not that you get a personal exemption from anything you don't like.