Liferaft failure

[Jackie J V]

Gary,
Great post. I think the location of your storage probably contributed to the demise of your raft.

Also, my boat is a couple of years older than yours. When I took possession of the boat, every speaker on the bridge and in the cockpit was toast. All of the speaker cones were dissintegrated from the heat and exposure and I had to replace them all.

It seems that the repacking technology has improved over the years.

When I bought my boat last spring, the ad in Yachtworld.com included the fact that it had a "freshly packed life raft". I was disappointed and questioning other representations when after I drove 8 hours to see the boat, it was clear that the raft hadn't been inspected in 6 years when it clearly required an annual inspection (the stamp showed the last inspection to be "03-2004"). So as a condition of closing, I made them send it out for a complete overhaul - cost them $1,200 - I have the bill.

Here's a shot of the raft canister mounted on my bow:

I hope never to see the insides!

When the raft was fully inspected and overhauled (some of the contents required replacement), it came back indicating another inspection was not necessary for three years (vs. the annual required before). Must have been vacuum bagged.

Paul

 

[Four Suns]

Gary, have you considered a hard white colored life raft container?

I'm not real crazy about those... I would have to mount it to the foredeck and it would block my wife's view as you would see it through the front windows.

 

[Four Suns]

Here's a shot of the raft canister mounted on my bow:

I have a few questions on that location... Aren't you afraid the thing could get ripped off the deck? I've buried my bow a few times and with 6-10" of water rushing over the deck, I would think that thing could get ripped right off...

Also, how is it mounted? Is it back-plated? How did they get to the backside? That area is all cored as well... many questions...

 

[Presentation]

I'm not real crazy about those... I would have to mount it to the foredeck and it would block my wife's view as you would see it through the front windows.

Have you considered getting a taller wife? Just kidding my friend.

 

[Jackie J V]

Sorry man - don't have all the answers.

All I can say is that it has been in the same place for 8 years, it's very solid (i.e., no indication of issues w.r.t. water penetration of screw holes or other issues).

I have also wondered about the issue of burying the bow and will report back at some future point when I do. Didn't last year, but certainly did in big conditions in my previous boat.

The current location though is at least reasonably innocuous in that it does not block the view from the salon and doesn't really interfere with any other functionality.

This one is about 80lbs, so it wouldn't work too well in a bag on the bridge.

Paul

 

[earthmover17]

Ok I'll start the sh!t. Whats wrong with the $12,000.00 unsinkable dinc that I haul around on my platform as a life raft. If I had a smaller boat without my dinc a liferaft would be a must.
Come get me guys.

Jack

 

[Jackie J V]

Good questions - no sh!t. I guess it comes down to a different purpose Jack. If the ship encountered some sort of catastrophic failure (fire, blown hose, etc.) and was sinking in reasonable conditions, we'd be hopping into the dingy and heading for shore. If we were in terrible seas and sinking - we'd be heading for the liferaft.

The SOLAS approved life raft includes a full emergency kit on board, has stabilizing baffles, and a tent cover. It'd survive seas where the dingy would be flipped and the contents dumped.

Big thing though, I've got the liferaft because we inherited it with our "new-to-us" boat. If it weren't there, I don't think I would have bought for the waters in which we boat. We're in the Great Lakes, not the open ocean.

Paul

 

[SR400DB]

One question:

What are your thoughts on installing the canister raft on top of the hardtop? Quite a few of the sportfishers out here use this arrangement. This removes some of the dangers of shipping too much water and watching your raft float away, but may present access issues.

 

[Alex F]

Ok I'll start the sh!t. Whats wrong with the $12,000.00 unsinkable dinc that I haul around on my platform as a life raft. If I had a smaller boat without my dinc a liferaft would be a must.
Come get me guys.

Jack

I'm treating my dinghy as a life raft. I totally understand the differnce in specially designed life raft, but there are number of things to consider (expense, space to store it, waters you're boating in, etc.). Gary's post makes very frustrating mark on the products. You pay around $10K or so, spend $500 every year or every other year to service it, if all is good you don't have to use it and in the end it doesn't function after 10 years. This is just hal of a price to pay for this type of insurance.

 

[Four Suns]

You pay around $10K or so, spend $500 every year or every other year to service it, lukilly you don't have to use it and in the end it doesn't function after 10 years.

Liferafts are around $1500 for a coastal variety... $2500 for an offshore one...

 

[CSR_Admin]

A raft on the hardtop is not a good idea. If you have a Longliner tuna boat or plan to cross oceans in heavy seas this can be a good location for a second raft. But to put your primary raft here on a rec boat is not a good idea. We sell several hundred rafts a year (Zodiac, Revere and a few Winslow and some others). And probably 3 or 4 hundred epirbs a year. The only times we have ever had customers use these devices on rec boats are because of fire. If your raft is on the hardtop you can kiss it good bye. It will burn up. Also, even if the boat sinks you had better hope you are somewhere deep, because the hardtop can be 12' down and the raft still not deploy. So you'll be treading water in the middle of the Albermarle sound while your boat is just a few feet below you - no raft. Rough seas deep enough to sink a rec boat... not likely unless you have some ocean going sailboat or a trawler and can get caught out in some really bad weather. Keep the raft and the epirb near the stern of your boat and readily accessible. If you have the funds and want some backup then put a Cat I epirb and raft on your hardtop.

 

[Alex F]

Liferafts are around $1500 for a coastal variety... $2500 for an offshore one...

Gary,
I'm sure you know better prices on them, but I remember seen some pretty steep prices (may be it was fancy version). I never took my time to research it based on the category as you've layed out (costal, ocean). So, even if I was wrong on purchase price the point still remains.

BTW, for the $1500 raft they charge $500 to service it? Wow, that's not easy to justify.

 

[Four Suns]

Ok I'll start the sh!t. Whats wrong with the $12,000.00 unsinkable dinc that I haul around on my platform as a life raft. If I had a smaller boat without my dinc a liferaft would be a must.
Come get me guys.

Jack

I generally think people have a vision of a boat sinking in a very controlled manner like the Titanic or something. The people I know that have sunk a boat don't tell the story that way. It seems to be a violent experience and the boat is not oriented such that launching a dinghy is in the cards (it's on it's side or the back end sinks in a few minutes, etc).

Don't get me wrong... I'm going to try and get my dinghy off... but I just have a feeling it's going down faster than I can get the thing off. If you saw the recent sinking of that 50' Bertram, it doesn't appear they would have had time to get a dinghy off... the transom got ripped off... and so did the bow. Look at some of the other recent "famous" sinkings in the last year. There was that 70 foot yacht off of the east coast of FL where the family went into the water and the dinghy was still visible on the deck as the boat sank.

Also, I've had my Zodiac dinghy out in 3' waves and it's not stable unless you are "going fast" jumping waves. With 4 people in it, the CG is going to be high and it will flip.. And I'm not sure how one could right the thing...

Also, my dinghy can only hold 4 people... and even then it's tight.. but I'm going to try and get it off but it's a backup to my liferaft.

 

[Four Suns]

Gary,
I'm sure you know better prices on them, but I remember seen some pretty steep prices (may be it was fancy version). I never took my time to research it based on the category as you've layed out (costal, ocean). So, even if I was wrong on purchase price the point still remains.

BTW, for the $1500 raft they charge $500 to service it? Wow, that's not easy to justify.

I agree... all this safety stuff is just "rented" IMO... I had my EPIRB battery replaced last year and it was $500... I could buy a new one for $700...

I don't have a hard time justifying it though...

 

[Alex F]

Don't get me wrong... I'm going to try and get my dinghy off... but I just have a feeling it's going down faster than I can get the thing off.

Gary, having this in mind I had my dinghy secured by two lines. I have very sharp knife right in the helm storage compartment (no more than 1' from my reach). The plan is to grab the knife and cut those lines with minimum effort. So, theoretically I expect to be able having my dink "unleashed" under a minute.

Granted, in bigger boats like yours the dinghy is secured with something more solid. But, I guess it all comes down to having a tool that helps releasing process very fast. If you use straps the sharp knife should do the trick anyway.

Also, I've had my Zodiac dinghy out in 3' waves and it's not stable unless you are "going fast" jumping waves. With 4 people in it, the CG is going to be high and it will flip.. And I'm not sure how one could right the thing...

Also, my dinghy can only hold 4 people... and even then it's tight.. but I'm going to try and get it off but it's a backup to my liferaft.

The way I look at it is that even if the dink flips it will remain floating providing something to hold on to in addition to the PFD. This is of course the extreme scenario, but if one manages to survive holding on or even flipping back during the storm it's very good option vs. not having it. This is where life raft wins big along with room to fit more people.

 

[earthmover17]

Gary,
I realize that it seems whenever something goes wrong on a boat it's never when you are in calm seas or at the dock. Everytime I've had any kind of an issue it's been in some ugly stuff. I have quick releases on the cables attaching the dinc to the transom and all my crew knows that it's the second thing to be done if there is trouble (first thing is to throw the ditch bag into the dinc). I personally can make all of this happen in less than a minute. I also like the idea of having propulsion as my dinc ( with a full tank ) will go approximatly 35 miles. I guess this could be debated over and over but the bottom line is whatever a guy is most comfortable with.


Jack

 

[Four Suns]

Your dinghy is bigger than my dinghy... My dinghy is only 11' long...

I also carry a jet ski on the back instead my Zodiac jet boat from time to time... and sometimes I don't have anything on the back...

I was going to post about how my SOSpenders that are 10 years old don't hold air anymore... and how I'm having to get my PUR Survivor06 watermaker serviced... but I won't now... sheez!

 

[earthmover17]

Probably not but it's the thought that counts.

Jack

 

[Four Suns]

OK...

I'm just really afraid of the damn boat sinking and nowhere to go... OK?! OK?!

 

[bmac]

I've read this thread with much interest. Most of my boating is done in large bays with fairly shallow waters (6-12 feet) with sandy bottoms. I'm pretty sure if the boat sinks I can just sit up on the bridge and wait for help (at least that's waht I tell myself). However, we do take a two week trip every year where we are in open Ocean for a few hours. We're almost always with other boaters on those legs of the trip. The $1500-$2000 isn't the issue so much as another thing to carry and care for. I no longer carry a dink either. So what's the consensus....buy one or not for my application?