in water engine flush?

[charlieft]

On that Perko Flush Pro unit, do you need a Seacock to stop the flow of Sea Water while using it or is there something built into the unit that will do that? Many boats with outdrives (including mine) do not come with Seacocks on the hose comming from the outdrive.

It has a built-in shutoff ... the hose pressure shuts off the intake from the drive.

I am in the same situation as SAshton .... I leave the boat in a salt water slip all Summer and it's raw water cooled.

I looked into the Perko valve, but it made me nervous because it is plastic and there is no seacock.

When I tried to get the flush system put in I got shot down by everyone I talked to.
My dealer told me that the engine was designed to be in salt water and I didn't need to flush. I asked them to do it anyway and when I picked up the boat it had not been installed.

My marina told me the same thing as the dealer. They said that the engine needs to be flushed more when you take it out of the water, but when you leave it in the water the engine is always filled and the salt stays in solution. They also said that the benefit would be minimal and not worth the aggravation of flushing each time you went out.

Then my mechanic friend agreed to do it, but kept putting me off and it never got done.

I like the looks of that "Quick Flush Valve SystemTM", but it seems like a manual process where you could screw up and open the wrong valves ... causing more harm than you avoid by flushing the engine. If you turn the hose on without the engine running then the water could enter the cylinders through an open exhaust valve and really screw things up.

At this point I had given up on the flush system... but this post re-sparked my interest.

SAshton. After reading your last post ... I'm with you ... I'm just going to enjoy the boat and not worry about it.
Good Luck,
-Charlie

 

[Morpheus]

Not sure if the muffs would really work underwater never heard or seen that done before.

 

[estebanj]

One of the reasons I went with the Perko FlushPro (with remote hose inlet) is to avoid having to open the hatch and operate valves. With the FlushPro, I connect my garden hose from the dock to the inlet in the transom locker and flush with Salt Terminator. Fast and easy.

I do like the valve system, but I didn't like the need to operate manually in the engine room. Other options to consider are the electric valve (AquaPurge) and also the Neutra Salt system.

Esteban

 

[asimpkinsjr]

Perko makes a "Flush Pro" unit ($60.00):

and a flushing strainer ($180 at go2marine):
Flushing Seawater Strainers


And, finally there is this contraption at http://www.yachtsofstuff.com/userPostings.asp?xID=yachtsofstuff&cexs=mtg

Quick Flush Valve System[SIZE=-1]TM[/SIZE] for Inboard/Outboard Engines

Quick Flush Valve System for Inboard/Outboard Engines
Quick Flush Inboard/Outboard User's Guide
Marine engine and outdrive winterizing and flush valve kit.

Constructed with bronze body and stainless steel ball valve and handle to fit your cooling systems hose size.

One time installation, for regular engine and outdrive flushing and winterizing ease.

An optional stainless steel strainer with reinforced oil resistant hose (#111SH) is available for winterizing and emergency bilge pumping.

Three valves control flushing engine and outdrive.
Winterize with optional strainer immersed in antifreeze. Model # Hose Size, ID Price (US Shipping) Buy On-Line 750IOV 3/4" $95.00 $18.50 125IOV 1 1/4" $182.00 $18.50

I built this myself (Quickflush) when I had my searay and had the marina put it in, worked great...not something you really need to purchase....one word of caution the valves you may need to either order or get from a plumbing shop...west marine and boatersword dont carry the size valves needed for most SR engine freshwater pickups

 

[Hampton]

What about for inboards? My dealer keeps telling me that I need to install a flush unit, but I don't know anyone who has one for big gas inboards.

 

[Morpheus]

I like the looks of that "Quick Flush Valve SystemTM", but it seems like a manual process where you could screw up and open the wrong valves ... causing more harm than you avoid by flushing the engine. If you turn the hose on without the engine running then the water could enter the cylinders through an open exhaust valve and really screw things up.

It's before the impeller, and the water pressure from the hose into the engine I don't think is going to cause water to screw things up but I could be wrong here I'm no expert but if this was the case then the Perko flush kit would have the same problem and the muffs could have the same problem if the water pressure can push the water up the outdrive into the engine.

So I'm not sure if your concern there is actually valid. The biggest damange I could see you might have is if you didn't have the valve open to the engine so the water couldn't get to it when you start the engine. But this would be as if you hooked up the muffs and didn't turn the water on or didn't hook up the muffs.

Maybe some boat engine experts can speak up here on the water pressure causing water getting into the wrong place.

Also I believe once you turn the engine off it's still FULL of water it doesn't just all drain out as far as I know.

 

[MC1600]

The Perko system is supposed to have a flapper valve built into it, so there is no need to open or close any valves when flushing the engine.

 

[Morpheus]

I think that flapper is so the water doesn't go to the outdrive. I don't see how the water pressure could close a flapper until you start the engine.

 

[estebanj]

In the Perko, the fresh water line is one-way and doesn't allow any water to travel that way when the engine is running normally. When you start feeding fresh water, it automatically closes the valve coming from the outdrive hose (via the water pressure).

My confirmation that it's working OK is that I see the Salt Terminator foam behind the transom (which I feed with the fresh water).

Regarding previous questions:

* Yes, there is always water left sitting in the engine, unless you open the manual drain valve(s).

* With the manual valve system, worst damage that can happen is a broken impeller. If the valve is closed, the engine will start to overheat and possibly damage the impeller.

* I sort of agree with the advise that it's OK to leave a RWC engine sitting in salt water w/out flushing because it was made for that. Is it OK? Yes. Will you need to replace your risers and manifolds sooner? Yes. Will your engine block last longer? No.

Esteban

 

[MC1600]

My confirmation that it's working OK is that I see the Salt Terminator foam behind the transom (which I feed with the fresh water).

I'm curious, Esteban - how to you feed the Salt Terminator into the engine? Also, I'm wondering if we're talking about different systems, because I can confirm mine is working by listening to it run down in the engine room.

I have a little hook-up right next to the door under my cockpit sink. While the engine is off (but hot), I hook-up the hose for about 5-10 mins, and as soon as there is water pressure going through the line, I can hear the flush system running down below.

 

[aprilfools63]

After a little more thought on this issue, I realized that there are several real problems:

1) Most marine facilities will have water pressure above 40psi and could cause water ingestion into a 100% water-cooled engine.

2) In order for the bronze "T" flush kit to work, the engine will need to be running and shut down simultaneously with the fresh water valve. This will require two “sober” people with both verbal and timing skills.

3) The Perko kit has been known to crack and does not block 100% of the seawater intake... but it is a viable solution if it fits in the engine compartment.

4) Salt is good on most of my favorite foods and on the rim of a Margarita glass, but not so good on marine engine components. This video shows some examples of the types of damage salt can cause: http://mfile.akamai.com/12689/wmv/boattest.download.akamai.com/12689/_dld/maats/maats_saltaway.asx

5) I know of many boats that sit in brackish water and they seem to do fine, but there does needs to be a viable method to prevent the salt from causing corrosion to metal components.

6) I found this product from Volvo Penta but it will work on any Inboard or outboard, does not require freshwater, and has a remote switch:



The unit is $209.95 from Volvo Penta. Cheaper at Boaters World.

Does anyone have experience with this product?

P.S. comsnark, some will say that B.O.A.T stands for "Broken" "Or" "About" To", I prefer "Break" "Out" "Another" "Tanqueray". Plus, I hate using fractions and if a boat unit was $1,000, than a fill-up would cost me .6 boat units (sounds like less, but harder for me to explain to the Commodore)

 

[estebanj]

MC1600:

1) I'm feeding Salt Terminator via the provided garden hose hookup with the Salt Terminator. You add the concentrate into the small container, the it mixes with the water coming via the hose.

2) I think we're talking 2 different systems. The Perko FlushPro requires the engine to be running. It connects before the water pump in the engine. I think they one you have is the SuperFlush which back fills/flushes the engine with the engine off.

Esteban

 

[estebanj]

The NeutraSalt is a good product. The only negative I have heard is the cost of the concentrate (which is similar to Salt Away or Salt Terminator). Basically you are feeding concentrate into the cooling pasages with the raw water coming in. The concentrate will dissolve the salt in the water so you are left with "fresh water" in the cooling passages.

Esteban

 

[Morpheus]

I'm so confused and lost now.

All I want is to be able to flush my engine and outdrive while it's up on a life out of the saltwater without having to put a ladder or something to get the muffs on the outdrive. There has to be some solution to this it seems to important not to have a solution.

 

[estebanj]

Morpheus: the SuperFlush system will do what you want.

Esteban

 

[aprilfools63]

Morpheus,

This thread topic is for "in water engine flush" and I believe that almost all of the responses have been for that question. Your question is a lot different and you may want to start another thread for that purpose. I think that the question is valuable for others in the same situation and should be easier to answer than "in water engine flush", but I do not have any experience with flushing a boat on the-hard where you need to climb a ladder to access the out-drive and/or engine compartment.

 

[Morpheus]

Morpheus: the SuperFlush system will do what you want.

Esteban

Thanks but according to their website it only flushes the engine not the outdrive.

 

[Morpheus]

Morpheus,

This thread topic is for "in water engine flush" and I believe that almost all of the responses have been for that question. Your question is a lot different and you may want to start another thread for that purpose. I think that the question is valuable for others in the same situation and should be easier to answer than "in water engine flush", but I do not have any experience with flushing a boat on the-hard where you need to climb a ladder to access the out-drive and/or engine compartment.

Very good point.

 

[asimpkinsjr]

It's before the impeller, and the water pressure from the hose into the engine I don't think is going to cause water to screw things up but I could be wrong here I'm no expert but if this was the case then the Perko flush kit would have the same problem and the muffs could have the same problem if the water pressure can push the water up the outdrive into the engine.

So I'm not sure if your concern there is actually valid. The biggest damange I could see you might have is if you didn't have the valve open to the engine so the water couldn't get to it when you start the engine. But this would be as if you hooked up the muffs and didn't turn the water on or didn't hook up the muffs.

Maybe some boat engine experts can speak up here on the water pressure causing water getting into the wrong place.

Also I believe once you turn the engine off it's still FULL of water it doesn't just all drain out as far as I know.

The key is not to run any of these systems without the engine running in the muffs situation you are farther from the engine seals, etc...but in the case of a flushing unit they are generally installed pretty close to the engine and thus there is a risk, but then there is also a risk in boating if you dont know what you are doing so all things considered it should be manageable.

 

[asimpkinsjr]

After a little more thought on this issue, I realized that there are several real problems:

1) Most marine facilities will have water pressure above 40psi and could cause water ingestion into a 100% water-cooled engine.

2) In order for the bronze "T" flush kit to work, the engine will need to be running and shut down simultaneously with the fresh water valve. This will require two “sober” people with both verbal and timing skills.

3) The Perko kit has been known to crack and does not block 100% of the seawater intake... but it is a viable solution if it fits in the engine compartment.

4) Salt is good on most of my favorite foods and on the rim of a Margarita glass, but not so good on marine engine components. This video shows some examples of the types of damage salt can cause: http://mfile.akamai.com/12689/wmv/boattest.download.akamai.com/12689/_dld/maats/maats_saltaway.asx

5) I know of many boats that sit in brackish water and they seem to do fine, but there does needs to be a viable method to prevent the salt from causing corrosion to metal components.

6) I found this product from Volvo Penta but it will work on any Inboard or outboard, does not require freshwater, and has a remote switch:



The unit is $209.95 from Volvo Penta. Cheaper at Boaters World.

Does anyone have experience with this product?

P.S. comsnark, some will say that B.O.A.T stands for "Broken" "Or" "About" To", I prefer "Break" "Out" "Another" "Tanqueray". Plus, I hate using fractions and if a boat unit was $1,000, than a fill-up would cost me .6 boat units (sounds like less, but harder for me to explain to the Commodore)

I built and installed on of these on my 260da when I had it and I have some feedback on this issue...i went with the brass 3 valve unit...

1. It was great for flushing both the engine AND the lower unit...simply shut the valve to the engine, open the hose inlet and lower unit valve and turn the hose on.

2. With these its important to turn the water on AFTER the engine is running and turn it off BEFORE turning of the engine, but this is the way things should be done whenever flushing any engine in any manner...you never pressurize before turning the engine over. I flushed my diesel in my motorsailor today and I followed the same order.

3. I have and had a fundamental mistrust of the perko unit because of construction...being a former submariner I prefer brass valves on any critical systems....seethru plastic makes me nervous.

4. With the brass assembly whether you build or buy be sure to connect it to the boats grounding system...or else..

5. The brass 3 way unit has one additional feature...it can act as a bilge pump allowing you to use the engine to pump the bilge in event of a problem by simply shutting the lower unit valve and opening the hose valve while the engine is running and having dropped the hose into the lowest part of the bilge.