How do you like the transition to a fully enclosed helm?

There is no doubt now that we need to spend some time on an enclosed helm boat. The responses are compelling. No one who responded who has made the move regrets the move.
 
shinsr said:
Yes - my boat feels no difft than my 44 - keep in mind I never removed my front vinyl panels, so never had the full wind in my hair experience (nor do I want it!). Key is that both boats have vent windows in the front windshield, and this boat has independent vents on each side of windshield. Those small vents let a large amount of air in,
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Are you saying there are 2 additional vents to the bigger center windshield vents to allow in fresh air? Are these vents on the earlier 2005+ 48DA's as well. I've never noticed them.
 
copb8tx said:
Are you saying there are 2 additional vents to the bigger center windshield vents to allow in fresh air? Are these vents on the earlier 2005+ 48DA's as well. I've never noticed them.
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The front windshield of the 48 has 2 pieces to it - each side has its own vent on the bottom inside corner - when both are open it almost appears to be one, but it is actually 2 independent motors / openings. Believe it has been that way since 2005.
 
SWF340 said:
shinsr....does it still feel and sound like you're on the water? I just mentioned to my wife it could feel like a covertible... she said yes but you can't roll down the windows. Good point.

Also, can the passenger sit facing forward comfortably on your new boat?
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No roll down windows....No problem!!!!! Tell her...."OK...That settles it. I'll go get us a Palm Beach Avalon 50." Problem solved.
 
shinsr said:
The front windshield of the 48 has 2 pieces to it - each side has its own vent on the bottom inside corner - when both are open it almost appears to be one, but it is actually 2 independent motors / openings. Believe it has been that way since 2005.
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Ok, thanks, I was aware of those. I thought you may have been referring to some addition vents I didn't know existed.

Airflow is my biggest concern with transitioning to a mostly enclosed helm. Unlike some folks, I rarely operate my boat with the front Isenglass in place. Only early or late in the season.

My second biggest concern is visibility at night through the glass. At night I typically stand and look over the windshield frame. I eat a bug or two but can see clearly.
 
copb8tx said:
Ok, thanks, I was aware of those. I thought you may have been referring to some addition vents I didn't know existed.

Airflow is my biggest concern with transitioning to a mostly enclosed helm. Unlike some folks, I rarely operate my boat with the front Isenglass in place. Only early or late in the season.

My second biggest concern is visibility at night through the glass. At night I typically stand and look over the windshield frame. I eat a bug or two but can see clearly.
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Those vent windows let in more air that you would think.

That being said I think that if you are going to have a successful transition to an enclosed windshield you almost have to not allow yourself to compare the the experience of boating in your current boat to what you would have in a larger boat. There are many habits that we had when boating in our 18' runabout that we had to change when moving to the 30'. Too bad you're not closer to Seattle or we could take you out for a spin and Larry is close by and I'm sure he'd do the same.

Although the windshield is tinted you can still see well enough at night however I would say that we rely mostly on our instruments (radar, chart) and then have second person as the lookout, plus we drive much slower. Lastly when operating at night, we only do so in the lake. I don't like being out on the Puget Sound at night because of the logs and other debris that you have to watch out for that would be impossible to see at night.

Which boat are you leaning towards the most?

Sandy
 
sandydlc said:
Which boat are you leaning towards the most?

Sandy
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Without question if I did anything it would be to move to a 48 Sundancer. I LOVE that boat. Looked at an '05 for a good price a few weeks ago but it had just sold.

There are some significant hurdles other than just airflow and visibility to overcome for me to make the jump though. I have a nicely built out covered slip that I already stick 6 feet out of. The marina is 'ok' with that but with the 48' I'd be hanging out 14' into the causeway. Not sure how that would go over. Might have to be one of those forgiveness vs permission things. And there's no moving slips since our best friends specifically built their slip next to ours and both the women would kill me if I moved.

Finally there's the boring cost/benefit side of things. We're lake boaters so the diesel/gas issue isn't a big deal to me. I love my boat but I just love the 48 more. Just like my current boat, it just may be one of those things where a situation just presents itself that can't say no. Following this thread has made it a little easier for me to say 'yes' though.
 
If we go with a Sundancer I want the open helm of the 2004 44 Sundancer, and the helm and cockpit layout of the 2010 450 Sundancer. The 44 has a smaller opening so canvas isn't as bulky. The 450 has the companion seat on the port side... I need my space. Wife likes the 450 aft cockpit seating being on the port side so she can see me and not be behind me...she's a sweetheart that way. She also says the cabin of the 450 looks nice, especially the media room. We like the separate head and shower.

I haven't seen any 450's online that have enclosed the aft cockpit with screened canvas. My 340 has that, black mesh, surprisingly private and bug free.

We are a year away, maybe 18 months... it's fun looking and making as many errors and discoveries in my head before I start sea-trialing and make a mistake with my wallet.
 
Just went from a 2005 420Da to a 2010 540DA. The sunroof along with side windows that roll up and the center window (that rolls up as well), will give you the convertible feeling you are looking for. We just ran the boat for 3 days crossing 285 Nautical miles. We had all kinds of weather (sunny and warm, pouring rain and extensive fog). The cockpit adapts to all these conditions thanks to the features mentioned above.
This has been the best boating experience so far.....
 
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Steve36 said:
Just went from a 2005 420Da to a 2010 540DA. The sunroof along with side windows that roll up and the center window that rolls up as well will give you the convertible feeling you are looking for. We just ran the boat for 3 days crossing 285 Nautical miles. We had all kinds of weather (sunny and warm, pouring rain and extensive fog). The cockpit adapts to all these conditions thanks to the features mentioned above.
This has been the best boating experience so far.....
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Your post is a nice testament given the open air feel of the 420, a model I have ridden on with friends. I mostly think I want to stay with the Sundancer versus Sedan Bridge because I think it's a sexier look and it will have fewer bridge restrictions. My wife prefers the sedan bridge because we plan to spend weeks to months on board, yet might be coming around to the new dancers because of the larger windows below, Knowing the 540 has the windows as you described...this could be a game changer. Thanks for posting Steve. Your description is right on the money.
 
copb8tx said:
We love this feature about our boat however it looks like Sea Ray's getting away from this layout for some reason.
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Bart I noticed that, too. At least the shower is separate in the head, my 340 is not. The shower is the sink faucet pulled out and hung on the wall, lol! No problem really because the marina showers are so nice where we stay so they're preferable.
 
I love the Sundancer/Express style boat, but even with the new bigger hull side windows I'd get a little cabin fever after 8 weeks. You're not going to want to be sweating in the cockpit every time you want to look out the windows. Even with cockpit AC (i have it) it can only do so much to ward of the S. Florida heat.
 
My 340 canvas doesn't leak, fits well...it's just cumbersome. In southwest florida I would never be without a bimini or hardtop for extending cruising. We cruise 8-10 hours a day at 8mph...with some spurts at 20 to exercise the engines. Lending to the feeling of dissociation from the water on the motoryacht could also have been the height above the water. I'm sure one gets used to the height and it becomes a non-factor. We have cruised short periods with the canvas in place. It just doesn't feel the same. Granted, the 340 has a single power vent on the windshield, no side vents...so when the windshield glass is up...that's all the outside you get. It isn't about airflow, it's about being connected with the water. The 540 could be a remedy... or the older 48... or a bridge boat. Or, like height of the water, maybe it's something one gets used to. Maybe over time the advantages of no canvas (as stated in some posts here) far outweigh the open air feel. Maybe...say on a 450...while underway...one can get enough of the feel of the water abaft of the helm.
 
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Perspective is everything...does anyone say that besides me?

Whatever, it occurred to me... someone said they live in Seattle where "it gets quite hot in the summer." Yeah, okay. I don't think so, relative to Florida, so I checked. That this person boated without a bimini on the Chaparral was odd to me. It's not odd when you live and boat in Seattle, But, it's Seattle, the PNW. I checked the average temp for Seattle...annually... 52 degrees! Average annual high 58!!! Average high temp in July and August... 72.5. It rains nearly 50% of the time. If I want to boat a lot, and my average annual temp is cold, and my summer avg high temp is cool and the low borders on cold.... you're damn straight I'd want a fully enclosed helm. Heck I might have to get a pilothouse-style....brrrrr!

Edit: My apologies to those who saw this post earlier. I'm taking allergy med and fell asleep at the keyboard, hence the crazy repeated letters and numbers. :smt101
 
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We've actually had several days of 85 degree weather in Seattle in April and May already this year. Averages aside, we usually have very clear weather from early July through September, with many days in the 80's. That's when we take the vinyl windshield windows out since it gets so hot at the helm. It may be that more Sundancers in the Pac NW don't have A/C which sounds like a must in the southern states.
 
SWF340 said:
Perspective is everything...does anyone say that besides me?

Whatever, it occurred to me... someone said they live in Seattle where "it gets quite hot in the summer." Yeah, okay. I don't think so, relative to Florida, so I checked. That this person boated without a bimini on the Chaparral was odd to me. It's not odd when you live and boat in Seattle, But, it's Seattle, the PNW. I checked the average temp for Seattle...annually... 52 degrees! Average annual high 58!!! Average high temp in July and August... 72.5. It rains nearly 50% of the time. If I want to boat a lot, and my average annual temp is cold, and my summer avg high temp is cool and the low borders on cold.... you're damn straight w
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That someone was me. I travel frequently and I know that we don't get "Florida" hot but we do have days where we're in the high 80's and with the highs in the 90's (see weather history for last summer here...) https://www.wunderground.com/histor...statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

I will be the first to admit that my body does not and has never tolerated prolonged heat very well. When we first got our Chaparral we traveled without the bimini top regularly until the summer I got heatstroke (I don't recommend it for anyone) after which we decided that traveling without the bimini simply wasn't worth the risk to my health. In the Pacific Northwest we boat year-round so our boats need to be able to handle the temperatures and weather conditions when it's hot and when it's cold and drizzly. All I can say is that we're immensely more comfortable in our Sea Ray than we ever were in the Chaparral. The Chaparral had no AC and a sad cabin heater that pretty much only took the edge off on very cold days.

The beauty of our Sea Ray configuration on the 450 is that you can take off the aft canvas and still run the AC for the captain and those who want the fresh air and sun can also have that in the aft seating. Regardless of whether you consider our weather worthy enough to be considered "hot", the 450 keeps you comfortable in several different configurations and in all types of weather.

Sandy
 
I admire the look of enclosed hard tops and enclosed fly bridge boats but wouldn't want one. Sorry guys, but I'm another who boats in all kinds of temps and who likes the feel of the wind and the sound of the water.

We live on the east side of WA in a desert. We boat all year so it's not uncommon for us to be out in below freezing temps and we're often out when it's 105* to 110*. When it's cold we have all the eisenglass installed. When it's hot they're all removed and we enjoy the feeling of the wind.

One thing I don't like about having all the windows installed is that I can't feel the force and direction of the wind when I'm docking. I don't think I could ever go to a completely enclosed fly bridge. It would feel too much like being in a car with the windows rolled up.

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Gofirstclass said:
I admire the look of enclosed hard tops and enclosed fly bridge boats but wouldn't want one. Sorry guys, but I'm another who boats in all kinds of temps and who likes the feel of the wind and the sound of the water....
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My sentiments exactly, especially the sound of the water. GFC it's nice to know you can still hear the water from your height.

...One thing I don't like about having all the windows installed is that I can't feel the force and direction of the wind when I'm docking. I don't think I could ever go to a completely enclosed fly bridge. It would feel too much like being in a car with the windows rolled up.
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Had not thought of that but I do the same thing. Maybe the fully enclosed helms all have joystick docking. Great call GFC...another box to check.
 
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