How can I separate this?

[HUMPH]

I have two underwater lights and one of them had salt water dripping on it from inside the engine room when I purchased the boat. The PO had a hole drilled through the transom for wiring to get to the dinghy lift and just had a clamshell over it. Never sealed the space around the wires! My problem is that there is a bronze housing then a reflector inside the housing made of aluminum or something. Since the salt water dripped on this for who knows how long, the reflector is stuck (bonded) to the bronze. I would appreciate any suggestions other than a hammer & chisel (I already tried). Is there a solution that may help break this bond?

http://www.underwaterlightsusa.com/productinformation/SV20US-prod.pdf

 

[HUMPH]

bump...

 

[osd9]

The bigger problem is that the transom is cored. If water has been seeping through the improperly prepared hole then there is the (good) possiblity that the transom coring in that area has been compromised. You may want to put a moisture meter on the area around that hole and then take the necessary precautions to avoid any further damage.

 

[Four Suns]

What Dom said. You need to pull those lights out and check the holes....

 

[mistercomputerman]

That's an official aw $hit...

 

[fwebster]

No, Rick.

An "Aw ****" is when you back into a piling and do $300 worth of damage to your swim platform. An "Oh ****" is when you realize that your surveyor missed something than may in, all probabliity, cost 5+ boat dollars to repair.

My advice on the underwater lights is to haul the boat, take the lights out and properly fill the holes. Frank's Boat rule # 3 is don't put any holes in your boat that are not needed to operate the boat or to navigate safely, because holes in a boat lead to a violation of Rule #1: The wet stuff stays outside the boat.

 

[techmitch]

With all due respect, can we get a copy of the list of rules?

 

[osd9]

.....An "Aw ****" is when you back into a piling and do $300 worth of damage to your swim platform. An "Oh ****" is when you realize that your surveyor missed something than may in, all probabliity, cost 5+ boat dollars to repair.

..........

It's my guess that the $300 *'s represent four different letters than the $5K *'s

 

[Pyrojodge]

With all due respect, can we get a copy of the list of rules?

I would like to second this request. I believe a list of boating Do's and Dont's would be pricless from Frank Webster the boat legend!!!

 

[Four Suns]

Busting up a swim platform is $300? Man... I gotta get a new boat yard.

 

[Four Suns]

I will also say this... drilling holes in a boat is not something taken lightly. I've seen the videos and pictures on here of people ploping the hole saw through the boat and gooping it up with 4200 or 5200 saying "Never had a problem." I think one of the CSR bow thruster/swim platform companies had that argument here.

I've had a few holes put in my boat bottom by the yard here who deals mostly with Viking Yachts (it was for a big grounding plate). Drilling the holes was very quick... laying up the fiberglass encapsulating the hole sides and refilling it with something that could be drilled was 3 days... The ground plate was cheap... doing the holes right was a small fortune.

 

[Loneranger]

I will also say this... drilling holes in a boat is not something taken lightly. I've seen the videos and pictures on here of people ploping the hole saw through the boat and gooping it up with 4200 or 5200 saying "Never had a problem." I think one of the CSR bow thruster/swim platform companies had that argument here.

I've had a few holes put in my boat bottom by the yard here who deals mostly with Viking Yachts (it was for a big grounding plate). Drilling the holes was very quick... laying up the fiberglass encapsulating the hole sides and refilling it with something that could be drilled was 3 days... The ground plate was cheap... doing the holes right was a small fortune.

I am a bit at odds with Frank in that I do plan on adding underwater lights to my boat (even though they serve no safety function); however, I do plan to do the job correctly. The OP holes were obviously not done correctly. Hopefully the core is sound and redoing the holes correctly is all that will be required. Here is a great tutorial on how to drill the holes through the hull the correct way. As far as breaking the bond to remove the reflector I do not have a suggestion, although I suspect you will end up destroying the entire apparatus in the process.

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/sealing_the_deck

John

 

[Four Suns]

I think that website is great for drilling bolt holes... However, the holes for lights are much bigger and I know the yard here glasses them in... not just put epoxy on them.

 

[fwebster]

Bolt or screw holes are one thing, but holes big enough for underwater lighting is something else altogether. Plus, you cannot use that method of epoxying holes on a vertical surface and the bigger the hole diameter is, the weaker that type preparation is. I am like Gary in that I don't think the hole is sound unless the glass is ground out and tapered or beveled on about a 5:1 slope toward the desired hole.

Some boat yards around here use 5200 for underwater light bedding, but the poor guy who has to remove the light when it fails (when, not if) has got a mess on his hands trying to removed cured 5200. without damaging the hull and light. Most lights don't survive a repair for this reason.

Oh, and every boat yard will tell you they do a great job with underwater lights and have many customers who installed them.......because they are expensive to do right, the good ones have tons of mark-up for the yard, and its like a guaranteed future job......someday, every one of the boats with underwater lights is going to need a haul out and repair to them.

They are cool and look sharp, but nobody needs to see shrimp or minnows swimming under their boat bad enough to bore 4" holes in a perfectly good boat.........the next guy that owns my boat can install the underwater lights because it sure won't have any while I own it.

 

[Loneranger]

Some boat yards around here use 5200 for underwater light bedding, but the poor guy who has to remove the light when it fails (when, not if) has got a mess on his hands trying to removed cured 5200. without damaging the hull and light. Most lights don't survive a repair for this reason.

I think the bonding strength of 5200 is about 700 psi which is higher than the strength of gelcoat to fiberglass bond. I have never used 5200. The more I read and hear about 5200, it seems it does not have much good use for it on a boat.

BTW, the lights I plan on using (although I have not done this yet) are more like surface mounted. They do require a 1/2 inch hole through the transom to allow the wire feed into the bilge.

Unfortunately, I have no yard around me that works mostly on Vikings and Hinckleys. I find more shade tree operators unfortunately. Besides I first need to stop my wiper motor from leaking before I even think about lights.

 

[fwebster]

5200 will stop the wiper leak........just don't plan to remove the motor in the future.

 

[trit21]

I agree with Frank and Gary, no holes in the bottom of the boat that don't 'need' to be there. I know many people think they need underwater lights but I just don't care for them much at all. I do like some of the newer lights in at least they can be surface mounted with minimal holes but still don't like the look, hell everyone has them anymore, why make your boat look the same as everyone elses.

As Frank mentioned, be careful with 5200. Apparently, my PO put 5200 on my radar mount. Haven't had the need to remove it yet but tried once while transporting and 2 men could not get that thing to budge at all. Luckily we measured the height of the boat when on the trailer and it was under the max height so no problems but 5200 should not be used on a boat. Many dock mates use it on everything and they will be sorry. I use the 4000UV or 4200 depending on where I use and for what I am sealing. I am sure there are other adhesive/sealants to use but be careful when something states 'permanent bond'.

As far as the Original Post, he never said his underwater light were leaking. We are assuming because of a ?cam shell through hole for a wire that was not done correctly(?sealed) that his UW lights were not done correctly as well. Probably a good assumption but I think he needs to investigate the UW lights holes and get a moisture meter (better to use IR camera) and get some information about that area. Especially if he is going to start hammering away at the housing, never a good idea for an underwater fitting. I would remove the housing, repair/replace, reinstall correctly and then you know where you are at, you have a baseline. Hammering on an underwater housing is never a good idea, you just don't know what type of damage you will cause or seal you may break loose. IMO.

 

[HUMPH]

The bigger problem is that the transom is cored. If water has been seeping through the improperly prepared hole then there is the (good) possiblity that the transom coring in that area has been compromised. You may want to put a moisture meter on the area around that hole and then take the necessary precautions to avoid any further damage.

I asked Sea Ray directly if my boat was cored and they said it is all solid glass. Did they misrepresent the truth? See email response below...

Solid glass.
Thank you,

Floyd Goddard
Sea Ray / Meridian
321-449-8628
321-449-8632 fax
By the way, is the transom of the 2003DA cored or solid?

Ken

 

[HUMPH]

=trit21;537140]As far as the Original Post, he never said his underwater light were leaking. We are assuming because of a ?cam shell through hole for a wire that was not done correctly(?sealed) that his UW lights were not done correctly as well. Probably a good assumption but I think he needs to investigate the UW lights holes and get a moisture meter (better to use IR camera) and get some information about that area. Especially if he is going to start hammering away at the housing, never a good idea for an underwater fitting.

Trust me, I was dainty with this procedure knowing that I am below the water line. I would rather wait until I need to haul for something else and not use the lights at this point. It seems silly to pull the boat to make an underwater light work. Now if I truly have a cored hull, that is a different situation. The hole for the wiring was just above the SP but with following seas or just coming off of plane the water would come over the SP and enter through this hole. If the transom is cored we may have a different issue altogether.

 

[Four Suns]

Ha!

You may want to double check Floyd's response. I'm sure they'll come back with "You didn't specify what part of the transom you were referring to. We though you meant the upper transom locker door." My transom is cored. You aren't going to get enough strength on a transom without either coring it or having it weigh 12 tons. Even boats that have a "solid hull" have cored transoms and decks. Even the "little" ones.