Here’s your Green Energy

See California's crisis with energy and looming blackouts due to their reliance of solar. It may be adequate as a supplement to conventional electricity in your house, but it is in no way an alternative source to replace neither electricity nor gasoline powered engines.
 
Our country needs to bring back whale as a renewable energy source. The rendered blubber provides heat and a light source. If you remember Captain Ahab, he was quite the employer, so doing this will also create the additional jobs we need in Amerika.
 
They should just put up "Eagle Crossing" signs to steer the Eagles out of the danger zone. What's the problem?

Seriously, you gotta love it when they start eating each other.
 
@ttmott Question for you. On the graphic outlining your project it shows an estimated yearly KW-hr production of 16,635 kw-hrs.

So if you have a 11.3 kw system, is that to say you can only "rely" on a 16.8% utilization rate?

16,635
---------------------------------------------------- * 100 = 16.8%
(11.3)*24*365

Just trying to understand the numbers.

Jaybeaux
 
@ttmott Question for you. On the graphic outlining your project it shows an estimated yearly KW-hr production of 16,635 kw-hrs.

So if you have a 11.3 kw system, is that to say you can only "rely" on a 16.8% utilization rate?

16,635
---------------------------------------------------- * 100 = 16.8%
(11.3)*24*365

Just trying to understand the numbers.

Jaybeaux
I asked the same question plus a hundred more. First solar panel ratings are in optimum conditions which is different in reality. They have a tool that uses a sat image of the structure the panels are to be installed which integrates the solar index in our area, sun position over a day and over a year, nominal clouding, with the panel configuration including roof slope and shading and it comes up with the anticipated performance. They said the tool was conservative and in reality could expect more. In my case some panels faced South and some West. The panels are fixed and do not track the sun. Shading is a big deal as electrical production isn't only reduced where the shade is on a panel. Here is the layout they have for my home.
Panel Layout.jpg
 
I asked the same question plus a hundred more. First solar panel ratings are in optimum conditions which is different in reality. They have a tool that uses a sat image of the structure the panels are to be installed which integrates the solar index in our area, sun position over a day and over a year, nominal clouding, with the panel configuration including roof slope and shading and it comes up with the anticipated performance. They said the tool was conservative and in reality could expect more. In my case some panels faced South and some West. The panels are fixed and do not track the sun. Shading is a big deal as electrical production isn't only reduced where the shade is on a panel. Here is the layout they have for my home.
View attachment 137574
Since you opted to forgo batteries and will be pulling from the grid at night and on cloudy days, I assume you cover 100% of your electrical costs by selling excess production back to FP&L? There's a real question in there somewhere...
 
Since you opted to forgo batteries and will be pulling from the grid at night and on cloudy days, I assume you cover 100% of your electrical costs by selling excess production back to FP&L? There's a real question in there somewhere...
I get the question - in Fl we have what is called Net Metering and it is a 1 for 1 value. I sell power back at the same rate they charge. Daytime I feed the grid and night or cloudy I take from the grid. Annualized, I should have zero cost to FP&L I give as much as I take; In actuality, I should do better than that. They finished the installation today now awaiting the county inspection and then FP&L to change the meter.
 
I get the question - in Fl we have what is called Net Metering and it is a 1 for 1 value. I sell power back at the same rate they charge. Daytime I feed the grid and night or cloudy I take from the grid. Annualized, I should have zero cost to FP&L based upon the installer's calculator; In actuality, I should do better than that. They finished the installation today now awaiting the county inspection and then FP&L to change the meter.
If we had that ability in our area, solar would be a no brainer. But our electric company spends a lot of money fighting against the concept.
 
If we had that ability in our area, solar would be a no brainer. But our electric company spends a lot of money fighting against the concept.
Mizurah? I thought you got some good payback. First the Fed 30% tax credit then the $500/KW property tax offset then the utilities have to offset a percentage to solar in their total production which includes residental production. Or am I reading that wrong?

But you are right in that the utilities are challenging the grid-tie payments in all of the state's courts. FP&L tried last year and our Gov shot it down. It would have closed down most of the solar sales. Even if FP&L got it through I'd be grandfathered into the program at this point.
 
If we had that ability in our area, solar would be a no brainer. But our electric company spends a lot of money fighting against the concept.
Also you might ask that as I'm connected to the FP&L grid they are do some equitable value to maintain the grid right? And I agree something is due to FP&L for using their grid as a battery (essentially). But, that's not how the Fl Govern has it organized. I understand they adjust the rates across the board to offset the loss of maintenance revenue.
 
Also you might ask that as I'm connected to the FP&L grid they are do some equitable value to maintain the grid right? And I agree something is due to FP&L for using their grid as a battery (essentially). But, that's not how the Fl Govern has it organized. I understand they adjust the rates across the board to offset the loss of maintenance revenue.
Well I obviously haven't looked into it lately, it's been several years. I need to follow it closer. We had a huge taxable event this year and I am looking for every credit and deduction I can get. I'm even loss harvesting in the market. I wonder if I can get a company to give my a bid and take payment by 12/31....
 
Well I obviously haven't looked into it lately, it's been several years. I need to follow it closer. We had a huge taxable event this year and I am looking for every credit and deduction I can get. I'm even loss harvesting in the market. I wonder if I can get a company to give my a bid and take payment by 12/31....
That's the event issue I had selling the company this year and then looking at a fraction of that in taxable income next. The rule for the Fed solar tax offset is the installation must be complete before end of year - that's precisely what drove me to get it done this month. We are also selling off equity losers by the end of this year then will look to possibly buy them back next.
 
That's the event issue I had selling the company this year and then looking at a fraction of that in taxable income next. The rule for the Fed solar tax offset is the installation must be complete before end of year - that's precisely what drove me to get it done this month. We are also selling off equity losers by the end of this year then will look to possibly buy them back next.
Same situation, wife took her buy out from her family business rather than keep fighting with her dick wad brothers and being miserable everyday. She had accumulated a significant amount of equity. Oh well, the solar credit is out. But we have a good tax plan without it.
 
@ttmott Question for you. On the graphic outlining your project it shows an estimated yearly KW-hr production of 16,635 kw-hrs.

So if you have a 11.3 kw system, is that to say you can only "rely" on a 16.8% utilization rate?

16,635
---------------------------------------------------- * 100 = 16.8%
(11.3)*24*365

Just trying to understand the numbers.

Jaybeaux

IMG_1569.jpeg
 
Wonder how big the house is. I have a 22 kw generator for my 3,000 sq ft in NC and it is just big enough.
Not so sure a 11.3kw (at $30+k) Solar panel array will cut the mustard in perfect conditions, never mind 16.8% of the time.

Sell back extra???? LOL
 
Wonder how big the house is. I have a 22 kw generator for my 3,000 sq ft in NC and it is just big enough.
Not so sure a 11.3kw (at $30+k) Solar panel array will cut the mustard in perfect conditions, never mind 16.8% of the time.

Sell back extra???? LOL
Swimming Pool Loads and Shop Loads included. Plus I have a 30KW diesel genset for outages - we haven't had any outages, yet. The "grid" is my unlimited battery; that battery cost me $27.16 per month. Any Questions?
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Slide2.JPG
 
Wonder how big the house is. I have a 22 kw generator for my 3,000 sq ft in NC and it is just big enough.
Not so sure a 11.3kw (at $30+k) Solar panel array will cut the mustard in perfect conditions, never mind 16.8% of the time.

Sell back extra???? LOL
Remember also that rating of a generator is premised upon maximum load; consequently, that 22KW genset that you have can provide that 22KW as long as the fuel lasts. In reality, however, any generator for home backup runs at full load a small fraction of it's run time. It is those short-term induction starting loads that establish a generator's size.
Let's look at a 11.5 KW solar system. I can tell you that is not large enough to support those periodic starting current loads and for brief moments the grid flows to the house to support that. But net-net over the day, week, month, year the average KW usage is well below 11.5KW; the solar system charges the grid. As you can see in my HOT June power bill above I consumed 2457 KWh which over the 32 days doesn't come close to the 30KW genset capability I have. More like an 5KW generator if the periodic current surges were not a factor.
 
Agreed. The 22 kw gen set will run for an estimated 18 days at full load on the generator dedicated 500 gal (400 gal fill) propane tank. Genset installed 3 years ago and have not yet needed to refill the propane tank (still sitting on just under full).

I can imaging the Florida sun if a deciding factor for the solar. Other areas with less sun, more cloudy / stormy days and snow sitting on the panels will be a whole different ball game.

In this area, everything is all electric. Heat pumps, elect water heaters and appliances, so the demand stays pretty constant through the year except in those few weeks that are cool enough to have the windows open, but warm enough so the heat isn't kicking on. Then the demand drops pretty steeply.
 
Agreed. The 22 kw gen set will run for an estimated 18 days at full load on the generator dedicated 500 gal (400 gal fill) propane tank. Genset installed 3 years ago and have not yet needed to refill the propane tank (still sitting on just under full).

I can imaging the Florida sun if a deciding factor for the solar. Other areas with less sun, more cloudy / stormy days and snow sitting on the panels will be a whole different ball game.

In this area, everything is all electric. Heat pumps, elect water heaters and appliances, so the demand stays pretty constant through the year except in those few weeks that are cool enough to have the windows open, but warm enough so the heat isn't kicking on. Then the demand drops pretty steeply.
For sure Solar power isn't a panacea; either is any other technology today. The basic economics simply don't pan out compared to the existing cost of utility electricity regardless where you live. Without the Government driving the conversions there is no economic case with a positive outcome. In my case all of the balls were in my court where it made economic sense with a short ROI. Now if you were an ardent "environmentalist" and money wasn't in the calculus to save the planet then maybe these technologies blindly make sense. Can't fix that emotional state of mind.
 

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