Here’s your Green Energy

Golfman25 said:
How the fk can they prevent the dumb chit birds from running into their wind mills. This should be posted in the “this country is f’d up” thread.
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You think that's fucked up...just wait until your power goes out because they shut the windmills down after seeing a eagle in the area.o_O Wait until all the other millions of windmills get put up, we'll be walking knee deep in carcasses and it's gonna be stinky.:eek:

'ESI agreed under a plea agreement to spend up to $27 million during its five-year probationary period on measures to prevent future eagle deaths. That includes shutting down turbines at times when eagles are more likely to be present.'
 
Woody said:
You think that's fucked up...just wait until your power goes out because they shut the windmills down after seeing a eagle in the area.o_O Wait until all the other millions of windmills get put up, we'll be walking knee deep in carcasses and it's gonna be stinky.:eek:

'ESI agreed under a plea agreement to spend up to $27 million during its five-year probationary period on measures to prevent future eagle deaths. That includes shutting down turbines at times when eagles are more likely to be present.'
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Not me. I’ll have my own fossil fuel burning generator thank you. :)
 
You can kill a person and get out on $500 bail. It's really fucked up. All the electric and battery and solar,wind all put together would power the country for 75 seconds. Great idea that was
 
Golfman25 said:
How the fk can they prevent the dumb chit birds from running into their wind mills. This should be posted in the “this country is f’d up” thread.
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You can't prevent all of them, but you can make it less likely. Stopping the turbine blades when there are migrations is a huge step to preventing big numbers from dying. Sometimes you can stop them during just the 'active' parts of the day, other times it might be for a couple days in a row. Either way it can really cut into the power output from the turbines.

I worked with a company for a bit that used cameras to identify the quantity, type and direction of birds and they had several installations around wind farms to try to mitigate the slaughter and it worked pretty good. They were also hired to survey potential sites to see how bad the conditions might be before the wind farm was actually committed to being built.
 
km1125 said:
You can't prevent all of them, but you can make it less likely. Stopping the turbine blades when there are migrations is a huge step to preventing big numbers from dying. Sometimes you can stop them during just the 'active' parts of the day, other times it might be for a couple days in a row. Either way it can really cut into the power output from the turbines.

I worked with a company for a bit that used cameras to identify the quantity, type and direction of birds and they had several installations around wind farms to try to mitigate the slaughter and it worked pretty good. They were also hired to survey potential sites to see how bad the conditions might be before the wind farm was actually committed to being built.
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I got a better idea. Stop the scam and don’t build them. You want “clean” energy, go nuclear.
 
It only seems fitting these days that we would find our great country killing flocks of its own national bird with faux energy propellers that require more conventional energy to manufacture than they yield.

The irony is so typical these days. It is maddening.
 
El Capitan said:
propellers that require more conventional energy to manufacture than they yield.
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I'd like to see your source for this data.

From my understanding a 2MW wind generator has a ROI of about 9 months to 6 years depending upon installation location and electrical rate structure. This is without any federal involvement. Obviously, energy needed to manufacture, transport, and install is part of the base cost. The only thing unaccounted for is someone's perceived air quality impacts as a component of manufacturing.
We should follow the Nord's lead and move them offshore; take care of that seagull problem.
 
In our area all power generation comes from natural gas fired steam turbines - the grid is fully integrated with varied sources of fuel however hydro isn't a component this far east. Florida Power and Light made a dedicated effort to convert the oil units prominent in our area to natural gas. We are powered by natural gas today.
Our residential electrical rates are low comparatively. However, I couldn't see how the rates remained so low given the capital investment by FP&L and the rising cost of NG. As it ends up the State of Fl keeps a heavy hand on the costs but no doubt, we are going to see significant cost increases.
I wanted to understand if an investment return was real on residential solar given our electrical rates significantly going up in 2023. As it ends up there is a return, but it depends when that return is realized. My math says six years with the Gov 30% incentive and 9 years without, given our electrical rates double by the end of next year (which I'm convinced they will).
So I pulled the pin and am having a 11.5KW Grid-Tied solar system being installed this month - a Generac PwrCell system. I didn't opt for the battery storage because I have a 30KW diesel standby generator already installed. This system is sized to offset 100% of my annualized FP&L electrical usage and cost.

Anyhow, in doing my research I came across this recurring report which dispels a lot of the hyperbole regarding Fed subsidies for electrical generation and levelizes the actual cost of electrical power today and in the future. It shows the cost of energy with and without tax credits. It pretty much blows a lot of the wind generation blather read in these posts out of the water.
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf
 
brewster16 said:
Interesting....just curious to know your raw costs on your house system?
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SOLAR.jpg
 
ttmott, just a note to the installation of your proposed solar installation. In the immediate vicinity of our house here on the Gulf side, all the roofs survived the recent hurricane except one. They had a solar package installed on their roof last year. It was a deal by Florida Power and Light. Their roof is still covered with blue tarps and the owners are pissed about the failure. I say this only to make you aware that the engineering on the attachment methods are not the best. With your background you are well positioned to get involved in the anchoring methods on your particular installation and avert a bad outcome should one of those Florida Breezes comes your way.
 
Halfhitch said:
ttmott, just a note to the installation of your proposed solar installation. In the immediate vicinity of our house here on the Gulf side, all the roofs survived the recent hurricane except one. They had a solar package installed on their roof last year. It was a deal by Florida Power and Light. Their roof is still covered and the owners are pissed about the failure. I say this only to make you aware that the engineering on the attachment methods are not the best. With your background you are well positioned to get involved in the anchoring methods on your particular installation and avert a bad outcome should one of those Florida Breezes comes your way.
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Yea, we went through that. If you are familiar with the systems, they are installing the Iron Ridge XR100. The wind load calcs are in the permit package and are will within the ASCE 7-16 requirements for our area. I'm comfortable.
 
The failure was not with the mounting structure included in the kit, it was with the lack of diligence of the crew attaching it to the roof. I must say though, that is only my best guess, since I only watched from across the street, but in talking to the neighbors that still have the blue tarps, they wish they would have had their son there to watch the work. Personally, I don't think the house was a good candidate for that much paneling on that roof. I saw the stucture when that house was reroofed about 8 years ago. A lot of the sheathing was replaced and while it was all open, it was obvious it was only 2x4 rafters and nailed braces. It is not trusses that are used these days and I think there was not enough consideration given to that limiting factor. With you watching the work, I am sure it will be fine.
 
Halfhitch said:
The failure was not with the mounting structure included in the kit, it was with the lack of diligence of the crew attaching it to the roof. I must say though, that is only my best guess, since I only watched from across the street, but in talking to the neighbors that still have the blue tarps, they wish they would have had their son there to watch the work. Personally, I don't think the house was a good candidate for that much paneling on that roof. I saw the stucture when that house was reroofed about 8 years ago. A lot of the sheathing was replaced and while it was all open, it was obvious it was only 2x4 rafters and nailed braces. It is not trusses that are used these days and I think there was not enough consideration given to that limiting factor.
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Thank you for the heads up. I'll be looking that every lag is in a truss - which the engineering requires.
 
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