HELP! Engine Won't Start - Looking For Ideas

"But you did say it was running great then this started correct?"

Yup....it ran great going away for the weekend.....and all the way back home on Sunday....until I got to the end of my dock and it just quit.

As for the wires mixed up.....I'm very confident they aren't. I was VERY careful pulling them and reconnecting them to the new cap. I've also been down that road many years ago getting them screwed up.......very careful about it now....probably anal even. :lol:

Here's a couple quotes from this site about timing belts/chains.

http://www.econofix.com/tbelt.html

" The engine will stop immediately and will not run again until the chain is repaired. "

Exactly what happened to me....just stopped.

"So if you have to advance the timing on a timing chain equipped motor with electronic ignition, the timing chain is probably stretched. If an engine will not run, but then starts after advancing the ignition timing A LOT then the timing chain has probably skipped a tooth and is about to fail altogether."

Exactly what I did today to get it to start.

I think I've eliminated everything else now except for a compression check.....or pulling the distributor to check that roll pin.
 
Last edited:
Just for us not so smart gear heads....what happens next? Do you have to pull the engine to repair the chain?
 
No. Shouldn't have to. But it's going to be a bit of a pain...first removing everything off the front of the engine to get the timing cover off to get at the chain and sprockets.

If that's where I end up going.....and I think it's looking more and more that I will.....I'll be hunting for someone smaller and more limber than I to do it......or help.

Anyone know where I can find a contortionist "little person" mechanic? :lol:
 
"Anyone know where I can find a contortionist "little person" mechanic?"

I met this chick in China.............never mind.
 
By the way is "Old Vet" for the car or are you an "old Veteran". If it is the later let me say thank you for your service!
 
I know the new caps from merc are labled on them what wire goes to what plug. make sure your set up correctly. how many hours do you have on the motor? for the timing chain to stretch you must be close to a 1000?
 
1139 hours on the old girl......been running like a top...till now.

"or are you an "old Veteran". "

30 years of it.....but not yours.....north of the border.

but thanks anyway :thumbsup:

And BTW......happy 4th to all you folks south of the border tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
UPDATE...for those following this thread and interested in the outcome.

Interesting day yesterday.

Had MY mechanic with me yesterday for the first time. Gave him the whole story....what happened...how and when. Explained everything I checked...changed and did thus far.

He then proceeded to go through his own trouble shooting routines to confirm everything I told him and to satisfy himself with his own findings BEFORE we started to tear things apart.

Pulled the distributor to inspect the gear and the roll pin. Both were fine. So there really wasn't anyplace left to go but to start tearing it apart to get at the timing chain.

Everything came off the engine easily to gain access.

When the timing cover came off I was a bit surprised to find something EVERYONE I talked to told me I would NOT find.

The cam shaft sprocket had nylon teeth. Everyone said they do not put those in marine engines. Well....someone did in mine.

Most of the teeth look fine. Some worn and rounded over some.

Chain seemed to have a fair bit of slack in it......seemed like more to me than there should have been.

When the crankshaft sprocket came off......it had a fracture in it. Don't know if that's the way it was though....or if it fractured when it was being pried off the crank.

But here's the BIGGEST thing we found. The timing marks on the cam sprocket was 180 degrees out. :wow:

Instead of the mark on the cam sprocket being at the bottom.....and the mark on the crank sprocket being at the top to marry up with the other.......BOTH were at the top.

Does that make it 180 degrees out? Or 90 degrees out? Whatever....fact remains they were nowhere even close to each other.

How in hell something like that happened we have no idea. My theory is that somehow.....the stars aligned just right.....at the right moment.....to allow the combination of slack in the chain....and the rounded nylon gears to combine to allow that chain to spin around and get that far out of whack. A "perfect storm" scenario.

And after it spun.....the better teeth on the sprocket hooked up again with the chain.....but now 180 degrees out......or 90....whatever the case may be.

Unreal. I can't come up with any other explanation.

Anyway.....we cleaned things up and started putting it back together with a new timing kit. Had to stop though. Just as well....it was a hot day....and the cold beer in the fridge were calling to us. LOL

I wasn't expecting to get that far yesterday so I wasn't fully prepared and didn't have everything I needed with me. No lock-tite for the cam sprocket bolts....and no torque wrench with me. So we packed it in for the day.

All in all though....we made pretty good progress. And I'm in no hurry to rush the assembly.....so we'll finish up on Monday probably when my mechanic gets back from his weekend away.

Very interesting day though yesterday.

Will update again once it's done and we fire it.....and try to time it.....and see where we get.

Fingers are crossed.
 
Still no go..

New timing kit is in.

It tried to start but won't

Did a compression test today....was fairly impressed actually for q 27 year old engine

Two cylinders at 115 psi......two at 135.....the rest were at 125 and 130. bit of a gap between high and low.....but all in all I didn't think compression was too bad.

So now the head scratching continues.:huh:
 
I'm going to throw this one out there so don't laugh...have you checked the ICM? It controls the timing, also did they ever replace the pickups? Also is the coil giving the plugs a good sting spark?
 
No laughing going on here I can assure you. :smt001

ICM check.......no. I just started thinking about that Thunderbolt iv ignition system on the way home last night and started looking for info on it.

"also did they ever replace the pickups? "

I'm not entirely sure what you are calling "pickups".

I changed the ignition sensor module inside the distributor.....that's all.

We seem to be getting a good spark at the plugs. The coil hasn't been changed...but I'm tempted.
 
The pickups are the unit that is where points would normally be ,in the distributor.
 
Old Vet said:
No laughing going on here I can assure you. :smt001

ICM check.......no. I just started thinking about that Thunderbolt iv ignition system on the way home last night and started looking for info on it.

"also did they ever replace the pickups? "

I'm not entirely sure what you are calling "pickups".

I changed the ignition sensor module inside the distributor.....that's all.

We seem to be getting a good spark at the plugs. The coil hasn't been changed...but I'm tempted.
Click to expand...

here is a thread i started that goes into pretty good detail on the TBV system....the TBIV system may be similar enough that the trouble shooting process could be the same...
http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/62806-TBV-ignition-electronics-troubleshooting
 
WHEW!!!!!!!

Thanks Cliff.

I read your entire thread. Very interesting....informative.....and especially glad there was a happy ending to your story.

At this point.....we HAVE NOT yet begun any electrical trouble shooting at all. Did some parts replacing initially at the recommendations of a local "marine mechanic".....cap..rotor..sensor inside dist and plugs. No coil yet. And now timing set since things seemed to be pointing in that direction....possible stretched chain etc.

Still no luck.

Odd though......i talked with my regular vehicle mechanic the other day and his initial reaction was...."I don't think it's a timing chain issue". When asked what then.....his response....."probably something electrical".

OH CRAP! Already had the front of the engine torn apart and new timing set in. "sigh"

So yesterday.....after completing the timing set installation.......and still "no go".....my mechanic working with me and I quit for the day still scratching our heads. We'll be back at it on Friday.

I'm just wondering if I should bite the bullet and simply move directly to the ignition system replacement as Cliff did and be done with it??????????

Thoughts please????????????

BTW....something else odd happening. As I crank the engine.....my volt meter on the dash jumps around VERY erratically and fast.......then pegs hard down when I stop cranking. never done anything like that before that I ever noticed.

Mean anything to anyone???
 
Last edited:
sorry to hear you are still having issues.....i fought the TBV ignition problem for two years off and on before i finally gave up....in my situation the problem would rear its ugly head off and on so it was difficult to diagnose.....finally the problem got worse and remained constant to the point the engine would not run....then i was finally able to do all the diagnostic work outlined in the thread....

we have never enjoyed our boat more than now.....it is SUCH a good feeling when you have confidence in the mechanical condition of your boat and not worry about breaking down....we could still breakdown now but i am not worried about it like before.....the new ignition system and running only ethanol free fuel has given new life to my boat....it starts easily, revs up easily, idles smoothly, and has excellent power to easily push the boat around and on plane.....

the ignition swap was by far the best $300 i have spent on the boat thus far.....

good luck.....

cliff
 
Last edited:
Maker sure you have a good ground; a bad coil can make the ECM act nutty.
 
Thanks Cliff.......

We have such a short boating season up here...and it's passing us by right now with our boat dead in the water tied to our dock.

I cannot see myself going through all the trouble shooting and diagnostics you went through....and before I know it it'll be lift out time. i have to do something...and FAST.

I am strongly leaning towards the ignition system/distributor change you did in hopes it will make things better.

I'll be discussing it with an engine builder tomorrow.....and with my mechanic on Friday. With any luck I'll have this issue resolved so we can enjoy our boat for the rest of the season.

A huge thank you to everyone who provided input thus far. You guys are all awesome. :thumbsup::smt038

Will report back after we do whatever it is we're going to do. Hopefully with good news.

Thanks guys.
 
A new development yesterday.

"Maker sure you have a good ground; a bad coil can make the ECM act nutty."

How about something in the starting system shorted to ground? Will that make the ECM act nutty as well??????????

I started trouble shooting some of the wiring yesterday and almost immediately came across something very odd.

The small starter "slave" solenoid has 4 posts on it......2 large and 2 small ones. One of the small ones has a small black wire on it going directly to ground. And that's fine. BUT......all 4 of those posts have continuity to ground.

So it appears to me that that little solenoid has failed internally and shorted itself out.

Picked up a new one last night. More metering today and then replacement of that solenoid and see where that takes me.

Hopefully away from my dock. "fingers crossed"


 
Have you tried hooking up to a small fresh tank of fuel or a short spray of starting fluid?
Just something else to throw out there because the low octane part of separated Ethanol fuel will not run right if at all. :huh:
Best of luck with finding the issue.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,253
Messages
1,429,309
Members
61,128
Latest member
greenworld
Back
Top