Health Care Reform

[skibum]

While I agree the public aducation system needs improvement, what would you suggest?

Should only parents capable of funding their own child's education (ie - private schooling) be allow to have children?

Ok... I'll bite.

Step #1. To determine the 2010 budget, audit the entire Department of Education for the past 5 years. Whatever they can't account for, deduct from the new budget. They'll figure out where it went last year because they won't have it to spend again next year.

Step #2. Prosecute every one of the persons responsible for any accounting irregularities found in step #1.

Step #3. Nuke the Department of Education. That gives us about 16 square blocks less offices in buildings in DC to maintain or heat.

Step 4. Fire the several thousand parasites that used to infest the aforementioned buildings in DC sucking away education money doing God knows what without actually educating anyone.

Step 5. Replace the former DOE with a 200 person panel made up of 4 individuals chosen from each state. They should be volunteer educators presumably chosen or voted to be the state representative because the people in their community and their peers both admire and respect them. They should meet a handful of times per year in a rented facility to set testing standards and exchange professional ideas and methods. I can't really think of anything else that would need to be decided at the Federal level.

Step 6. Let each State set up their own public education systems. One appropriate for their needs, based on local input, and run according to local traditions. Let each state decide how to fund it. If the local population is happy, fine. If not, let them fix it.

Personally, I believe that public education should be based on a "progressive" system, just like our current income tax. One kid, you pay $, two kids, you pay $$, three kids, you pay $$$ (it would be best if you only had the number of kids that you could actually afford to educate - condoms are cheaper than kids). Also, kids should be sent to the school physically closest to them. If you get kicked out of one, you get kicked out of them all. Then the parents should pay 100% of the tuition to any private school that they could convince to take them. "Special education" requirements should be evaluated on a case by case basis, but the special needs kids should only be allowed to attend classes that they can keep up on. No slowing entire classrooms of kids down just to allow the special needs children to keep up. Educate them properly, just don't allow them to mess up the eucation of others.

By the way - for millions of Americans the health care system is all ready screwed up. Many have insurance but are dropped or simply run out of coverage and file bankruptcy, even losing their homes in certain cases.

This is a hanging curveball, you know that? I'll bet that if you look closely at this group of people, you'd find that health care isn't the only thing in life that these people have failed to manage. It's OK to have pity for folks when they make bad choices (or don't chose at all) and screw up their lives. It is not OK to screw up everyone else's just to make it even. Fix their situation without destroying what is actually working, and is in reality, the best health care in the world. Fix, teach, inspire, not crush, kill, destroy.

Michael

 

[ChuckW]

...Fix, teach, inspire, not crush, kill, destroy.

We can all agree on this. But what one deems a "fix" another deems a "crush" and hence the problem of what to do.

Being in the Healthcare arena myself, I do enjoy these debates from afar. There is so much waste (and not all the Gov'ts doing) that we could pay off the national debt and give everyone not covered some health insurance just by driving efficiency and quality into the system we have. But that will require "work" and no one wants more "work" on this matter.

I'll sit back and enjoy the rest of this from afar... Cheers!

 

[skibum]

Getting the insurance companies out of the medical decisions, the lawyers out of the insurance business, and letting the doctors and nurses treat patients might be a good start. Notice that there is no extra Government in there???

 

[Georgia SeaDawg]

Preach it Skibum!!

 

[Blueone]

and give everyone not covered some health insurance just by driving efficiency and quality into the system we have. But that will require "work" and no one wants more "work" on this matter.

I'll sit back and enjoy the rest of this from afar... Cheers!

That was my point exactly... our company two years ago challenged a hospital to self improve by offering a donation of a million dollars. What they had to do was implement lean through 6 Sigma if they implemented it and showed bottom line signs of improvement they would get the money.....Two years later we are still coaching them on how to pick a college to train them.

 

[skibum]

Two years later we are still coaching them on how to pick a college to train them.

There is your problem. These are obviously Government employees disguised as hospital workers...

Eureka!!! I found the "cure" for the healthcare "crisis". Get the government workers out of health care. :smt038

Ooops... now the lefties are really going to get confused.... :smt101:smt101:smt101

 

[Turtlesboat]

I wish you all could live in NYC for a few years. I would say that 80% of the people on assistance programs are thieves, scammers. Heck, I would put money that 40%-50% aren't even legal. Come talk to my hot dog guy for a couple of weeks. He'll show you his new iphone and complain that he can't get a refi because he borrowed 175% of the value of his "HOMES" plural. He doesn't have health insurance because he spends $400/month on russian hookers. The dude sells hot dogs on the corner, he's got a bigger TV than I do. He just bought a SUV but can't drive it because he failed the driving test 4 times, drives it anyways, do i even need to mention that he doesn't have insurance on the thing. i can go on and on and on. This is just one guy in a sea of hundreds of thousands that do the same exact thing. He thinks he's honest because he doesn't dip his hands in EVERYTHING.

I feel so sick to my stomach every day i walk out on the street. Do you know that homeless people in NYC get $40,000/year in services, money, food, shelter, medical every freakin' year. think about that for a second.

I think that you should get one free pass. You have a kid and can't afford to take care of it, Gov steps in and gives you some help. You have two... 50% deduction. etc... If you are on Gov assistance for more than 3 years, you're out. no more.

I've been working since the age of 7. I borrowed or paid (myself) 100% of my education, health care, retirement, etc... You can get health care cheap in this country, all you have to do is lower your standards to say... 20 years ago. Still light years ahead of most of the countries in the world. Go to mexico for a vacation and have something happen. I've been there... A GF broke her ankle. took us 3 days to get it in a cast. I spent all day keeping flys off the x-ray while it dried in the sun.

 

[JV II]

IMHO,

Health care should be handled like education. Every child can attend school without direct charge. We all pay for their education whether we have a child or not. The well-off and so inclined can choose to send their children to private school, but the still pay the same toward public education. That's because it cheaper to have children educated than in prison or committing crimes.

Same is true for health care - it's cheaper for every one to have basic care than pay the uninsured to go into emergency rooms.

Try sending your kids to the Boston High School in my town for a free "education" and you will definitely need that "free" health care at some point during their school year.

The "free" health care will be like the free education you get at this public school. Distracted, life threatening, and insufficient.

If everyone had basic health care, who is going to see them? Are there all of a sudden going to be thousands of new doctors? We'll be paying for the free health care AND the same number of ER visits because these people will not be able to be seen.

 

[sprink56]

I have worked all my life since I was 14 years old. When I left my parents care I purchased Health Insurance through my employer. Ten years ago I opened my own business and still found a way to cover my wife and myself as well as pay for 50% of my employees premiums. Now I am down to a skeleton crew due to the economy, My group is not as large as it once was so now my individual coverage for my household has almost doubled. My wife has a condition that is un- insurable outside a group. Thank God for guaranteed issue through small groups!!...but I am paying through the nose. I am considering a major medical umbrella to put a stop to this rate increase business.

As bad as this economy has affected me personally as well as my business, it's still not as bad as will be if we let government run health care. My God, our government can't even run the friggin Post Office and not loose money!!:smt013 It would be a total disaster!!

I am in agreement that there must be programs for those that are legitimately disabled or those persons that find themselves temporarily down on advantage. However this blanket mentality of entitlement has got to come to an end.

We as Americans have an extremely high standard of living compared to the rest of the world. All I have to do to remind myself of that is take a 65 mile boat ride to the east to see how life is in less fortunate countries.

I say let private enterprise and micro/macro economic price theory sort the health care business out and keep the government out of it. I think we should also remove the 7 year patent protection law from pharmaceuticals to make that business more competitive. Medicines that help preserve life should not be hoarded up like gold with price structures that prevent fair competition. When a pharmaceutical firm can change the formula of a compound simply by adding one extra carbon molecule on the end of the equation in order to achieve exclusive patent protection for seven years....something has to change.:huh:

 

[elreyos]

Amazing, a couple of seasons ago all we talked about was getting on tthe water, or wether SeaRay's new boats were ugly. Maybe the last 8yrs weren't so bad. "You don't what you have until you loose it". I'm just sayin.

 

[keokie]

Sprink,

The Pharma companies aren't the villains either. They cannot simply change a carbon molecule and apply for a new patent. It is far, far more complicated than that.

We have many problems with our healthcare system. The very bigest problem by far in my opinion has already been pointed out by others; the increasing percentage of the population that expects to get it for free.

I fear we will get "free" healthcare. It will in reality be far more expensive than the current system, and will provide a tiny fraction of the care.

 

[fc3]

I say let private enterprise and micro/macro economic price theory sort the health care business out and keep the government out of it. I think we should also remove the 7 year patent protection law from pharmaceuticals to make that business more competitive. Medicines that help preserve life should not be hoarded up like gold with price structures that prevent fair competition. When a pharmaceutical firm can change the formula of a compound simply by adding one extra carbon molecule on the end of the equation in order to achieve exclusive patent protection for seven years....something has to change.:huh:

You don't know what you're talking about. If a company modifies and improves an existing drug, which then gets patent protection, the original product is still available as a generic. One does not have to take the latest and greatest.

I work for a biopharm. It costs us at about a half billion to develop one new promising drug. Meanwhile hundreds end up with no therapeutic value. Then once you do find something that might work, it costs 800 million to get it though clinical trials so that it can be approved. Then you need to satisfy the approval agencies in every different country. Finally, with the patent half gone, you get to sell it and hope that you recover your investment.

Yes, biopharmaceutical are very expensive. But they are grown, not manufactured. The process is very expensive.

Lastly generic makers don't do any clinical trials. They just live off the trials done by the big R&D pharma companies. It's easy to be cheap when you just copy someone else's work, have someone else do the research and let them take the risks.

 

[SR400DB]

"Work hard and pay your own way" is a noble idea but not practical.

Unless you advocate non-insured/under insured people being refused medical care they cannot afford.

As an example - let's say a 9 year old boy is diagnosed with cancer and is uninsured. What should we do in this country? Let him die without treatment? If he's treated, the hospital will take the loss and charge everyone more in order to spread out the costs.

So we are all paying for the uninsured anyway, it would be less expense to give them a basic package the includes cost-saving preventive care.

I think we're fighting against the idea that some will get "something for nothing" or without hard work. These are strong ideals from our country's history. If we can get beyond that, we'll realize it's just cheaper for all of us to provide some basic care for everyone.

Actually, working hard has been very practical for my family. Everything I own is due to my hard work. I paid for my own college tuition, paid for my own home, paid for my own truck, paid for my own boat. I certainly should not have to pay for some fat, lazy unemployed person to sit on their ass and have their hand out. But to discuss the 9 year old with cancer, there are many very good organizations/hospitals that will treat and cure many people, supported by fund raising and donations. My dad was diagnosed with Leukemia in April of this year, and is currently being treated at the City of Hope. His treatments will run more than a million, he has worked hard and has insurance that he pays for. The hospital told him they would treat even if he could not pay a dime, all from donations/fund raising. (Every building on the hospital campus was built and is maintained/run using donations, not gov't hand outs) However, if Osama's health plan is passed, my dad would NOT qualify due to his age and would most likely not have access to a bone marrow (actually stem cell) transplant in the USA. This info comes from the CEO of the City of Hope hospital. So, we should all pay for everyones bs health plan, however if you are too old, or?? you lose :huh:. Great idea. Oh, btw, my dad would cover the bill if his insurance/hospital did not, just how he is. All this lets be fair crap is just plain old crap.

 

[Southpaw II]

Lots of valid points here, of course, depending on your particular circumstances and lot in life. There's never a shortage of deserving and non-deserving medical cases.

IMHO government should not be in the business of education, health care, or many of the entitlements they run. It's fundamently wrong, inefficient, and they continue to screw it up, creating thieves along the path.

Educating our kids is a local responsibility. Healthcare is a personal choice, and sometimes life sucks. People should live and act like there's no safety net, but there will always be people that have worse luck than they deserve. Did anyone ever see Bambi or 'Ol Yeller?

 

[billandamy]

Here ya go... if you "fail" out of school, you have to go into the army making $1.91 and hour. You must be 12 years old or greater.


I'm not buying that stupid ass blanket statement... I personally know people that don't have health insurance but have cell phones and the latest 55" plasma TV... but I guess those are "rights" also?

I like the Army thing. Thats what I would agree with for failing out.

Your last statement rings so true...my wife is a pharmacist, and all day long when she used to work at the Walgreens in New Haven (bad area-right next to Yale hospital) she would have people on state health complaining about the $1 co pay, which was optional. They didnt have to pay the co-pay, so most opted to not even pay THAT.

Meanwhile, they had the jazziest cell phones, jewelry, bought lots of useless crap and drove away in nice new cars. She would get so pissed off at this whole system that people take huge advantage of.

 

[sprink56]

"Yes, biopharmaceutical are very expensive. But they are grown, not manufactured. The process is very expensive."


Perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about....maybe this person does.:huh:









This Story verified @ http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/generic.asp



Make sure you read to the end. You will be amazed.








Let's hear it for Costco! (This is just mind-boggling!)

Make sure you read all the way past the list of the drugs. The woman that signed below is a Budget Analyst out of federal Washington, DC offices.

Did you ever wonder how much it costs a drug company for the active ingredient in prescription medications? Some people think it must cost a lot, since many drugs sell for more than $2.00 per tablet.

We did a search of offshore chemical synthesizers that supply the active ingredients found in drugs approved by the FDA. As we have revealed in past issues of Life Extension a significant percentage of drugs sold in the United States contain active ingredients made in other countries. In our independent investigation of how much profit drug companies really make, we obtained the actual price of active ingredients used in some of the most popular drugs sold in America.

Celebrex:100 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $130.27
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.60
Percent markup: 21,712%



Claritin:10 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $215.17
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.71
Percent markup: 30,306%



Keflex:250 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $157.39
Cost of general active ingredients: $1.88
Percent markup: 8,372%



Lipitor:20 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $272.37
Cost of general active ingredients: $5.80
Percent markup: 4,696%



Norvasc:10 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $188.29
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.14
Percent markup: 134,493%



Paxil:20 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $220.27
Cost of general active ingredients: $7.60
Percent markup: 2,898%



Prevacid:30 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $44.77
Cost of general active ingredients: $1.01
Percent markup: 34,136%



Prilosec:
20 mg Consumer price (100 tablets): $360.97
Cost of general active ingredients $0.52
Percent markup: 69,417%


Prozac:20 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets) : $247.47
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.11
Percent markup: 224,973%



Tenormin:50 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $104.47
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.13
Percent markup: 80,362%



Vasotec:10 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $102.37
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.20
Percent markup: 51,185%



Xanax:1 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets) : $136.79
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.024
Percent markup: 569,958%



Zestril:20 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets) $89.89
Cost of general active ingredients $3.20
Percent markup: 2,809%




Zithromax:600 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $1,482.19
Cost of general active ingredients: $18.78
Percent markup: 7,892%



Zocor:40 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $350.27
Cost of general active ingredients: $8.63
Percent markup: 4,059%

Zoloft:50 mg
Consumer price: $206.87
Cost of general active ingredients: $1.75
Percent markup: 11,821%



Since the cost of prescription drugs is so outrageous, I thought everyone should know about this. It pays to shop around!

This helps to solve the mystery as to why they can afford to put a Walgreen's on every corner. On Monday night, Steve Wilson, an investigative reporter for Channel 7 News in Detroit, did a story on generic drug prices gouging by pharmacies. He found in his investigation that some of these generic drugs were marked up as much as 3,000% or more. So often we blame the drug companies for the high cost of drugs, and usually rightfully so. But in this case, the fault clearly lies with the pharmacies themselves. For example if you had to buy a prescription drug, and bought the name brand, you might pay $100 for 100 pills. The pharmacist might tell you that if you get the generic equivalent, they would only cost $80, making you think you are saving $20. What the pharmacist is not telling you is that those 100 generic pills may have only cost him $10!

At the end of the report, one of the anchors asked Mr. Wilson whether or not there were any pharmacies that did not adhere to this practice, and he said that Costco consistently charged little over their cost for the generic drugs.

I went to the Costco site, where you can look up any drug, and get its online price. It says that the in-store prices are consistent with the online prices. I was appalled. Just to give you one example from my own experience I had to use the drug Compazine which helps prevent nausea in chemo patients.





I used the generic equivalent, which cost $54.99 for 60 pills at CVS. I checked the price at Costco, and I could have bought 100 pills for $19.89. For 145 of my pain pills, I paid $72.57. I could have got 150 at Costco for $28.08.

I would like to mention, that although Costco is a 'membership' type store, you do NOT have to be a member to buy prescriptions there as it is a federally regulated substance. You just tell them at the door that you wish to use the pharmacy, and they will let you in.

I am asking each of you to please help me by copying this letter, and passing it into your own e-mail, and send it to everyone you know with an e-mail address.


Sharon L. Davis, Budget Analyst
U.S. Department of Commerce
Room 6839
Office Ph: 202-482-4458
Office Fax:
202-482-5480
E-mail Address:sdavis@doc.gov

 

[Four Suns]

Umm... I don't think the incremental cost of goods in meaningful here. Those figures are ridiculous. Let's see... it costs $1B to figure out what chemicals to put together and that should be ignored? That is WRONG!

If a drug company puts up the R&D dollars for a series of drugs (i.e. risks capital) and has no gaurantee they'll get a penny back, then why shouldn't they get a return on their R&D investment? It's a free market. If you don't want to pay for the drugs, don't take them. Period. Who the hell thinks it's a problem for a group of people to pool their money (i.e. the company shareholders/owners/investors) to develop a drug and then get a return on their investment? If one can't get a return on investment, no drugs will be developed.

Wait.. maybe we should have the government take over the drug companies... yeah... let's make it illegal to develop something that other people want/need unless you give it away.

Good grief...

If you don't want to pay for Lipitor, don't take it and go have a f*cking heart attack like the good old days.

If that email is real and Sharon Davis is real, she should have her ass FIRED! My tax dollars shouldn't go to dumb****s like her. She should be pumping gas and Citgo.

 

[sprink56]

"If you don't want to pay for Lipitor, don't take it and go have a f*cking heart attack like the good old days."


.....or buy it in Canada.

 

[Four Suns]

"If you don't want to pay for Lipitor, don't take it and go have a f*cking heart attack like the good old days."


.....or buy it in Canada.

If I'm a company, I have the right to sell anything I develop for any price I want in any country. In software, we used to charge double in Europe... why? Because it's what the market would bear. Why is that wrong? Maybe they did a market analysis and determined what price points had to be where to maximize sales. Is that wrong? Why?! It's their intellectual property. No one has right to claim products and dtermine what price points should be other than the people that developed them. If I wanted to sell my software in canada for $1 and here in the US for $1000, that's my right. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Let the government do it... then we won't have any new drugs but it will be "fair"

I hate generic companies. I think patent protection should be longer. Drugs would be cheaper then as they wouldn't have to recoup their investment in a short time frame... and generic companies are scum sucking copy cats.

 

[billandamy]

Very well stated in your last 2 posts Gary. Im proud of you :smt001