Dripless shaft seal failure today

Just noticed the broken fitting/missing hose myself. Looks like a straight stream of water coming from the right of the electrical connector. More the reason to haul.

DSS2.jpg
 
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looking that the corrosion and rust on the motor ,it seem like it was spraying salt water for quite a while
 
Anyway to verify it is a PSS dripless? I mean from the pictures it looks like it and my mechanic seems to think so but its difficult to get a good look at it, doesn't help he is fat and old (his words) lol.
 
At this point, it doesn't matter who made the seal. Water is gushing out of the seal at the shaft in addition to the hose barb hole. But Tides uses a blue silicone rubber shaft log hose and the one in your boat is a black corregated hose which is what PSS uses.

Tides:
https://www.tidesmarine.com/sureseals

PSS:
http://www.shaftseal.com/en/categories


It does look like a PSS seal, and PSS uses a carbon to stainless steel seal with o-rings to seal the components. To reface the wear surfaces or replace any components or o-rings with a PSS seal, it has to come off the shaft. That means a haul out.

With a Tides seal, if the housing is broken or if the lip seal is bad, and I don't see a spare on the shaft, the boat has to be hauled.
 
04cobra23 said:
Anyway to verify it is a PSS dripless? I mean from the pictures it looks like it and my mechanic seems to think so but its difficult to get a good look at it, doesn't help he is fat and old (his words) lol.
Click to expand...

Donning b!tch slap clothing.......

At this point, it doesn't matter WTF kind of seal it is because it isn't sealing. Several people have pointed out that it is time to haul the effing boat out of the water to mitigate damage. It is your responsibility to do so. You are an insurance company's dream. You get a leak. You take pictures of the leak. You post the pictures on a public forum. You ask for help. Help is offered, some from a 20+ vet marine mechanic with indepth SR specific knowledge. You ignore the offers to help. What more do you want?

Removing b!tch slap clothing.......

Donning business suit........

Here it is. You have a responsibility to mitigate damage or loss in any situation involving an insurance company in any situation; house, car, boat, health. Some companies spell it out explicitly, some don't. It's always in the policy. My brother was VP of an insurance company. They are not in business to pay claims. His words, not mine.

Next. I hope you have shut off valves on the tank vents. I doubt you do. Nobody I know does, myself included. Should your boat go down and you have a fuel spill you are looking at a ton of money to rectify the problem IF you are not in jail.

Civil penalties:
Up to $25,000 per day, per violation. 33 U.S.C. 1319(d).

Injunctive relief. 33 U.S.C. 1319(b).
​
Criminal charges:
Negligent Violations: $2,500 to $25,000 fine or imprisonment for one year, or both.
33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(1).

Knowing Violations: $5,000 to $50,000 fine or imprisonment for not more than three years, or both. 33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(2).

Knowing Endangerment: Up to $250,000 fine or imprisonment for up to 15 years, or both.
33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(3).
​

Just something to think about.
 
This looks like a good application for Rescue Tape. I had an issue where my cooling line got plugged with mud, then the seal overheated and bonded to the shaft and ripped the silicone boot. As you can imagine, water was pouring in.

I wrapped the entire area with Rescue Tape and it slowed it to just a slow drip. Even with that though, I slept on the boat that night so I could keep an eye on it, till they hauled it first thing in the morning.
 
dpmulvey said:
Donning b!tch slap clothing.......

At this point, it doesn't matter WTF kind of seal it is because it isn't sealing. Several people have pointed out that it is time to haul the effing boat out of the water to mitigate damage. It is your responsibility to do so. You are an insurance company's dream. You get a leak. You take pictures of the leak. You post the pictures on a public forum. You ask for help. Help is offered, some from a 20+ vet marine mechanic with indepth SR specific knowledge. You ignore the offers to help. What more do you want?

Removing b!tch slap clothing.......

Donning business suit........

Here it is. You have a responsibility to mitigate damage or loss in any situation involving an insurance company in any situation; house, car, boat, health. Some companies spell it out explicitly, some don't. It's always in the policy. My brother was VP of an insurance company. They are not in business to pay claims. His words, not mine.

Next. I hope you have shut off valves on the tank vents. I doubt you do. Nobody I know does, myself included. Should your boat go down and you have a fuel spill you are looking at a ton of money to rectify the problem IF you are not in jail.

Civil penalties:
Up to $25,000 per day, per violation. 33 U.S.C. 1319(d).

Injunctive relief. 33 U.S.C. 1319(b).
​
Criminal charges:
Negligent Violations: $2,500 to $25,000 fine or imprisonment for one year, or both.
33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(1).

Knowing Violations: $5,000 to $50,000 fine or imprisonment for not more than three years, or both. 33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(2).

Knowing Endangerment: Up to $250,000 fine or imprisonment for up to 15 years, or both.
33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(3).
​

Just something to think about.
Click to expand...


I don't even have seals and shafts in my boat, but I just called the marina and told them to pull it out of the water :) Well said.
 
dpmulvey said:
Donning b!tch slap clothing.......

At this point, it doesn't matter WTF kind of seal it is because it isn't sealing. Several people have pointed out that it is time to haul the effing boat out of the water to mitigate damage. It is your responsibility to do so. You are an insurance company's dream. You get a leak. You take pictures of the leak. You post the pictures on a public forum. You ask for help. Help is offered, some from a 20+ vet marine mechanic with indepth SR specific knowledge. You ignore the offers to help. What more do you want?

Removing b!tch slap clothing.......

Donning business suit........

Here it is. You have a responsibility to mitigate damage or loss in any situation involving an insurance company in any situation; house, car, boat, health. Some companies spell it out explicitly, some don't. It's always in the policy. My brother was VP of an insurance company. They are not in business to pay claims. His words, not mine.

Next. I hope you have shut off valves on the tank vents. I doubt you do. Nobody I know does, myself included. Should your boat go down and you have a fuel spill you are looking at a ton of money to rectify the problem IF you are not in jail.

Civil penalties:
Up to $25,000 per day, per violation. 33 U.S.C. 1319(d).

Injunctive relief. 33 U.S.C. 1319(b).
​
Criminal charges:
Negligent Violations: $2,500 to $25,000 fine or imprisonment for one year, or both.
33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(1).

Knowing Violations: $5,000 to $50,000 fine or imprisonment for not more than three years, or both. 33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(2).

Knowing Endangerment: Up to $250,000 fine or imprisonment for up to 15 years, or both.
33 U.S.C. 1319(c)(3).
​

Just something to think about.
Click to expand...

Cowboy,

Take it easy, did you have an accident today zipping up your pants?This forum is for helping others not being rude or an Internet warrior. Who's not choosing to listen to others? I was/am trying to gain information and knowledge on something I don't know much about. I am happy that you know it all.
 
04cobra23 said:
Cowboy,

Take it easy, did you have an accident today zipping up your pants?This forum is for helping others not being rude or an Internet warrior. Who's not choosing to listen to others? I was/am trying to gain information and knowledge on something I don't know much about. I am happy that you know it all.
Click to expand...

Not sure he meant it as harsh as you might think... he even admits his own lack of shut off valves, etc., ...perhaps just trying to get you to pull the trigger on the right thing to do...could have been a lot worse if you let it go. Glad you pulled the boat...
 
04cobra23 said:
Boat is being hauled today. Ordered a new kit.. anything else I should do while its out of the water?
Click to expand...

Mine is coming out next week for shaft seals. One seal has a small leak, only while running. I am going to go ahead and do the seals on both engines and cuttless bearings, take the shafts to the machine shop to be checked/cleaned up and send the props out for propscan. You probably don't need all of that, but it may be a good idea to check your cuttless bearings while it is out.
 
While it's out when was your last bottom paint job done? If you are getting close like less than 6 to 8 months away you may want to get it done while you already paid to haul out. Mine was 2 1/2 years old and looked good underneath but sides were starting to pick up some little friends that slow you down. Yard says haul/inspect bottom and gear then repaint every 2 years where I am at in the gulf.
 
bankyf said:
Mine is coming out next week for shaft seals. One seal has a small leak, only while running. I am going to go ahead and do the seals on both engines and cuttless bearings, take the shafts to the machine shop to be checked/cleaned up and send the props out for propscan. You probably don't need all of that, but it may be a good idea to check your cuttless bearings while it is out.
Click to expand...

Props and cutlass bearings are 6 months old so I good on that. I guess I can go over everything that should be checked while on land.
 
kevin27 said:
While it's out when was your last bottom paint job done? If you are getting close like less than 6 to 8 months away you may want to get it done while you already paid to haul out. Mine was 2 1/2 years old and looked good underneath but sides were starting to pick up some little friends that slow you down. Yard says haul/inspect bottom and gear then repaint every 2 years where I am at in the gulf.
Click to expand...

bottom paint was done 6 months ago. I need a "out of the water" check/todo list! I may actually put a new transducer. I recently upgraded electronics but didn't do the transducer
 
04cobra23 said:
Boat is being hauled today. Ordered a new kit.. anything else I should do while its out of the water?
Click to expand...

On PSS units there is only one hose barb used to push water into the bellows/to cool the carbon face. In your case, it appears to have broken off which is why water in the shaft log is pouring out of it. This raises a number of questions: 1) Why did it break off 2) If you put your finger over the hole does it stop leaking? 3) Is there a tear in the bellows or is the carbon faced cracked?

What I am most concerned about has already been addressed....your boat being pulled so that you have time to sort the issue out without worrying about battery or pump life.

I am now concerned that something happened that caused the hose barb to fail. On PSS units that could be something as simple as someone stepping on the fitting or the hose to it had enough stress to snap it. Either way that needs some investigation so that it does not happen again. Their nylon fittings are fairly durable. I think you mentioned that someone tried to slide the ring down to compress the bellows to stop the leak. I seriously doubt this was done given that to do so means someone is familiar with PSS systems. It is beyond belief that someone familiar with the system would not have seen the missing barb. To move the ring down the shaft means you have to know that set screws are double stacked which you would only know if you had installed PSS systems before. I have several seasoned mechanics send messages to me every year asking how to adjust the ring.

I know PSS seals like the back of my hand so there is more to this story. If the bellows are torn.....something happened to cause it. The fix is still the same: the boat has to be hauled and the shaft pulled. The carbon ring with the hose barb cannot be replaced with the boat in the water. It is not possible to superglue a barb in its place. Trying to screw in a brass fitting will cause the carbon ring to fail and you will have a leak 100 times more than you had before. You did the smart thing by having it pulled.

John
 
PlayDate said:
On PSS units there is only one hose barb used to push water into the bellows/to cool the carbon face. In your case, it appears to have broken off which is why water in the shaft log is pouring out of it. This raises a number of questions: 1) Why did it break off 2) If you put your finger over the hole does it stop leaking? 3) Is there a tear in the bellows or is the carbon faced cracked?

What I am most concerned about has already been addressed....your boat being pulled so that you have time to sort the issue out without worrying about battery or pump life.

I am now concerned that something happened that caused the hose barb to fail. On PSS units that could be something as simple as someone stepping on the fitting or the hose to it had enough stress to snap it. Either way that needs some investigation so that it does not happen again. Their nylon fittings are fairly durable. I think you mentioned that someone tried to slide the ring down to compress the bellows to stop the leak. I seriously doubt this was done given that to do so means someone is familiar with PSS systems. It is beyond belief that someone familiar with the system would not have seen the missing barb. To move the ring down the shaft means you have to know that set screws are double stacked which you would only know if you had installed PSS systems before. I have several seasoned mechanics send messages to me every year asking how to adjust the ring.

I know PSS seals like the back of my hand so there is more to this story. If the bellows are torn.....something happened to cause it. The fix is still the same: the boat has to be hauled and the shaft pulled. The carbon ring with the hose barb cannot be replaced with the boat in the water. It is not possible to superglue a barb in its place. Trying to screw in a brass fitting will cause the carbon ring to fail and you will have a leak 100 times more than you had before. You did the smart thing by having it pulled.

John
Click to expand...

John,

thank you for the informative response. The plastic around the barb was/is also cracked. My mechanic is familiar with PSS systems and the water was not only coming from the barb that broke off. When we removed the hose from the manifold there is a brown "sheeting" inside seemed jammed up by the barb on the manifold. I was told this may have caused the seal to heat up and fail. Like I said water was leaking all around the seal not only by the barb. He removed the lock screws and i assume loosen the set screws to move the ring down further to put more pressure on the rubber tube. I called Searay today and they gave me a part number for a tidal dripless which they said was factory on my boat.. What system do you suggest. The carbon face is located by the barb correct? My guy told me that was cracked.
 
I'm guessing it is one of two things: 1) the water supply to the hub became clogged 2) the barb broke off and the water supply was cut off. In either case, the carbon face would heat up and crack. They need water to keep them cool. Sea Ray used Tides Sure Seal on their boats which is a different design using seals. In regards to the repair.....yours is the first PSS failure I have heard of in the last 10 years. The choice is yours but given the tight quarters on your boat....I would probably stick with the PSS system. Tides Sure Seal is also a great system but also uses water to cool the seal. The only advantage of Tides is if the water was cut off and you fried a seal.....they have a spare seal on the shaft which you could use. It's up to you and your mechanic. I would definitely test the water flow on the cooling hose.

JD
 
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