Dripless shaft seal failure today

I agree with John.......

I am here for several reasons. CSR gives me a way to stay active in boating when I am away from the coast. I've been at this boat thing for a long time, and I enjoy helping others learn by benefitting from what I have picked up over the years. I got a lifetime of confrontation in running a consulting practice for 25+ years and I don't need that here. For that reason, I stay out of the "dust-ups" and don't confront others unless they post something irresponsible, unsafe or stupid. If a member choses to ignore the sound advice of others more experienced, then that is his business. If that advice is ignored, then I might repeat it, but name calling does no good.

I must admit some frustration in trying to help the OP here, however. It is so obvious from the photos that this isn't something than could be repaired with the boat in the water and that this boat was one dead battery, or one twig or cigarette butt in the bilge pump impeller away from sinking, yet days were spent here learning/teaching "dripless seals 101."

If you ask for help, then please listen when you get sound advice. At this point, it seems the OP has a local mechanic helping him, but I honestly don't know if the boat is in the water or not.
 
fwebster said:
I agree with John.......

I am here for several reasons. CSR gives me a way to stay active in boating when I am away from the coast. I've been at this boat thing for a long time, and I enjoy helping others learn by benefitting from what I have picked up over the years. I got a lifetime of confrontation in running a consulting practice for 25+ years and I don't need that here. For that reason, I stay out of the "dust-ups" and don't confront others unless they post something irresponsible, unsafe or stupid. If a member choses to ignore the sound advice of others more experienced, then that is his business. If that advice is ignored, then I might repeat it, but name calling does no good.

I must admit some frustration in trying to help the OP here, however. It is so obvious from the photos that this isn't something than could be repaired with the boat in the water and that this boat was one dead battery, or one twig or cigarette butt in the bilge pump impeller away from sinking, yet days were spent here learning/teaching "dripless seals 101."

If you ask for help, then please listen when you get sound advice. At this point, it seems the OP has a local mechanic helping him, but I honestly don't know if the boat is in the water or not.
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This is a forum correct? Where discussions take place. I was trying to get information about the seal so in the event something happens in the future I will have some education on the topic or someone may have the same issue and I could help them (Without running my keyboard of course) FOR THE FINAL TIME, when did I say I was not going to haul the boat? This happened Sunday evening, my mechanic came, stopped some of the water from pouring in and where I live marinas aren't open Sunday night. I am probably the most sarcastic, short tempered, blunt person on this forum. Yet I chose to remain respectful and not call anyone names. I am actually quite proud of myself, maybe I'll print up some sort of award.
 
Sand in the water is the enemy of dripless seals. Where you are located, I suspect you are like us, you churn up sand everytime you anchor or dock the boat. On PSS seals, if the seal isn't leaking, then the carbon follower is OK and there is no need to change the other side.

On Tides seals, the design is different and sand in the Delrin housing can wear which causes the lip seal to move about. If I was paying for the haul out anyway, then I'd replace both seals at the same time. Again, Tides or SureSeals only.
 
04cobra23 said:
I am probably the most sarcastic, short tempered, blunt person on this forum. Yet I chose to remain respectful and not call anyone names. I am actually quite proud of myself, maybe I'll print up some sort of award.
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really not something to brag about or be proud of....sometimes you receive what you give....

cliff
 
CliffA said:
really not something to brag about or be proud of....sometimes you receive what you give....

cliff
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I'm very proud actually.

You're right, SOMETIMES. Not in this case, I received disrespect without giving. I've given complete respect. If you don't give respect don't expect to get it.
 
If these seals are the original on the boat from 2003 (hard to believe) I would at least change out the bellows as they would be pretty stiff at this point and a tear or rip in them might be possible. When remove the boat, don't just look at the other seal. Loosen it up, move the collars and verify there is still flexibility in the bellows, otherwise you may not have the correct loading on the collar and seal (assuming you have PSS here) to form a correct seal on collar and carbon(ceramic) puck. Even if you have Tides, I would inspect the bellow closely and replace if it is original.
 
fwebster said:
Sand in the water is the enemy of dripless seals. Where you are located, I suspect you are like us, you churn up sand everytime you anchor or dock the boat. On PSS seals, if the seal isn't leaking, then the carbon follower is OK and there is no need to change the other side.

On Tides seals, the design is different and sand in the Delrin housing can wear which causes the lip seal to move about. If I was paying for the haul out anyway, then I'd replace both seals at the same time. Again, Tides or SureSeals only.
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I recall you posting a link, I will go back and look. Which way would you lean regarding replacing the seal, PSS or TIDES.
 
trit21 said:
If these seals are the original on the boat from 2003 (hard to believe) I would at least change out the bellows as they would be pretty stiff at this point and a tear or rip in them might be possible. When remove the boat, don't just look at the other seal. Loosen it up, move the collars and verify there is still flexibility in the bellows, otherwise you may not have the correct loading on the collar and seal (assuming you have PSS here) to form a correct seal on collar and carbon(ceramic) puck. Even if you have Tides, I would inspect the bellow closely and replace if it is original.
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I contacted the PO and he told me they were changed 2 years ago but cannot provide any more information. He had it maintained by someone and when something was wrong he gave his cc number. That's basically what he told me.
 
Manners...​
“ Manners are a sensitive awareness of the feelings of others. If you have that awareness, you have good manners, no matter what fork you use. ”


― Emily Post
 
04cobra23 said:
I contacted the PO and he told me they were changed 2 years ago but cannot provide any more information. He had it maintained by someone and when something was wrong he gave his cc number. That's basically what he told me.
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Then you are good to go as long as the bellows were replaced. I think typically it is every 7-8 yrs they recommend to replace although they will go double that. If I was you I would step back a second and see what the problem is with the seals before making a rash decision on changing the entire unit out. Shaft seals are expensive and both have advantages and disadvantages. I think the PSS seals are superior in design and concept but I know other on here swear by the lip seal (Tides), which I am not a fan of lip seals for this application.
 
I went thru this decision making process a couple of times. I like the PSS design, but they do not generally work well when you operate in shallow sandy areas because even the slightest score on the carbon block can cause a leak. If you are in deep water and never operate when sand is stirred up, then they are a good choice. In our area, there is a lot of shoaling and the desirable anchorages are near a barrier island where it is difficult to get close enough to enjoy the beach without being in very shallow water. The bottom here is all sand, no rocks, no mud...all sand. As a result, the only happy PSS owners are the commercial guys who are always in deep water. Ease of access and whether or not the seal requires any maintenance is also important.

Therefore, this isn't a Ford vs. Chevrolet argument.....I don't think there is a right or wrong seal. I think you must evaluate your use and choose the one that best suits your application.
 
Interesting thread.... I said I was done but I have a couple of items to add.

John, Frank and others....You're right, no one is obligated to respond when someone asks for advice on this forum. Many of us take our time to do so because we love boats and the whole boating environment and we also like to help people. You're also right in that if the advice is ignored it's no one's problem but the person doing the ignoring. My personal frustration comes from several recent posts over the past couple of weeks with people asking for assistance of some kind or another and them seemingly ignoring the advice. But in the big picture....not my problem.

Cobra, I just re-read this entire thread. I typically do not directly involve myself in name calling as I feel its unfair. There was a sentence in one of my posts that could be perceived as name-calling. If that is how it was taken, I truly apologize. As I said there have been several posts recently where people have ignored advice or in this case it appeared a potentially critical situation was not being taken serious. These feelings were shared by others as well. But what you choose to do is your business. I'm afraid you just happened to be the most recent person and in the way of my frustration. And my frustration was not just with you but a group that has been perceived to disregard advice that was solicited. I apologize for my part in that.

Comments made in writing are easy to be perceived in a different light than intended. Tone, inflection, sarcasm usually does not read well. Speaking for myself and maybe some of the others, if we were on the dock with you we would be saying to you, "Man, this is serious. Let's quit screwing around with this and get your boat out of the water." Perception is a wonderful word. You gave the perception to some, to not be taking the situation as serious and this perception resulted in some of the negative comments. For all we know, you could have been running around the dock frantic, knowing your boat had to come out ASAP but all we had is your written responses.

I don't want to be known on this forum as a dick who busts people's asses all the time. I want to be able to constructively share my 50 year's of boating wisdom with others so they can enjoy this silly pastime for as many years as I have. In the future I will decide who I want to help or not and not take this so seriously.

Shawn
 
Shawn, that was very well put. I have watched this thread and I have NO input as to the issue, ( I know nothing about them) but watching more out of curiosity and a chance to learn something. "Perception is EVERYTHING", an old mentor once told me. How true it is. I think it can play on both sides. But I really like your analogy of sitting around at the dock.... Perception wouldn't be an issue. OP, please let us know what you find and the avenue you choose to make the repair, good luck.

Best, Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hifirush said:
Shawn, that was very well put. I have watched this thread and I have NO input as to the issue, ( I know nothing about them) but watching more out of curiosity and a chance to learn something. "Perception is EVERYTHING", an old mentor once told me. How true it is. I think it can play on both sides. But I really like your analogy of sitting around at the dock.... Perception wouldn't be an issue. OP, please let us know what you find and the avenue you choose to make the repair, good luck.

Best, Matt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

many companies back years ago sent their employess through 'TQM' training which stood for 'Total Quality Management'....the company i worked for at the time was one of them and one of the VERY few things i remember from this training was 'Perception Is Reality'.......basically it means it does not matter how we 'think' we appear to others....it only matters how others 'perceive' us.....through some interesting exercises we compared how we felt about ourselves on several different levels and compared that with how others perceived us.....the outcome was almost always VERY eye opening as to the differences.....

this struck me as being important to remember so i had a small sign made up that said 'Perception Is Reality' and had it hanging in my office for a while....

cliff
 
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Morning all. I figured I would update the thread. I figured better late than never. I contacted PSS and told them what happened, they were EXTREMELY helpful and gave me the part at cost. It was a pleasure doing business with them. My mechanic was finally able to change the shaft seal and since the boat was out of the water I had my semi-annual wax/detail done. I am thinking about upgrading the transducer before she splashes Thursday. I will post pictures of the failed seal this week for those who are interested.
 
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