Cummins 450C 6CTA – Cooling Change

[Alex F]

Thanks Greg,

I think I'm starting to understand this. Please let me know if I'm on the right track.

Filter Choice:

Since the coolant is new I should use the filter with slightly less SCA units. My mechanic said I need 18gal. According to this matrix I need to have up to 6 SCA units after 250hrs.

This matrix shows that WF2070 has 2 SCA units and WF2071 has 4 SCA units. This sounds like when the antifreeze is frsh I can start off with WF2070 as I get past 150-200hrs I should switch to WF2071.

Am I getting this right?

Coolant Change

I checked the only manual I have and sure enough it states that at 600hrs I need to flush the system prior adding fresh antifreeze (Thanks a million, Gary for pointing this out).

At this time I just need to understand which RESTORE (regular or plus) to use. My manual says that PLUS contains the double amount of concentration from regular RESTORE. The question is how do I determine if my system is dirty enough and requires RESTORE PLUS vs. regular RESTORE?

BTW, does $16.5 per gal. for ES Compleat sounds like a decent price?

 

[floriduramax1]

This matrix shows that WF2070 has 2 SCA units and WF2071 has 4 SCA units. This sounds like when the antifreeze is frsh I can start off with WF2070 as I get past 150-200hrs I should switch to WF2071.

Your on the right track. Having said that, you need to go by the strips, not the hours.

 

[Greg]

That is what I did, some of the filters are slow release, so you may be able to use them right away. I am not really sure. Whatever you choose to do, I would at least keep an eye on it with the test strips.

$16.50 sounds like a good price.

 

[sea salt]

Do all diesels have this SCA/filter requirement or is this unique to Cummins?

 

[fwebster]

All diesels require cooling system monitoring and maintenance. However, Caterpillar makes a pre-diluted antifreeze with an additive package in it that does not require the level of maintenace that Cummins requires. Cat's ELC can be extended one time at the 5th year by adding an extender (more additives). Truthfully, at about year 5, you need to clean the heat exchangers anyway, so most Cat owners just replace the coolant at that point.

 

[Alex F]

Frank,

It sounds like CATs and Cummins are going head to head with the coolant life. My Cummins dealer said that ES Compleat is designed to last for 5 years as well, as long as it's properly maintained and not mixed with water or any other type of antifreeze.

 

[Four Suns]

Don't let Frank W. fool you... The real reason you don't have to worry about the test strips and SCA filters on a CAT is because the engine implodes and the coolant has to be changed with the engine rebuild... like every 2 years...

 

[fwebster]

Baiting.....Baiting!

At least I don't have to have a bolt and bracket scavenger hunt in my engine room after every trip to locate all the junk that my engines shake loose.

 

[Turtlesboat]

do the engines shake that much that you need filters on the fresh water?

 

[osd9]

2011 will be my fifth full season running my CATs. I had the cooling system flushed and the AF replaced in December 2006 as part of my purchase agreement. I have my Fluids analyzed every end of season: Oil, Trans and AF. Every year my analysis comes back perfect. At the end of this season, I'll have the fluids anaylzed as normal, except that I plan to change the AF before I start my sixth season.

If I want to find loose nuts and bolts in my bilge, I have to do it the old fashioned way....buy them at the HW store, drop them in the bilge and then go looking for them.

 

[fwebster]

I don't think so. But, the heat exchangers are marginal in size so they tend to generate a lot of silicate from the coolant, hence the constant monitoring with test strips, different filters with a variety of SCA pucks in them. And, then there is the whole after cooler cleaning issues..............

I really have no idea........I'm just makin' this stuff up.

I just know my Caterpillar engines have 1400+ hours on them, they have never lost a bolt or screw, have never had a bracket break, I've only cleaned the heat exchangers once in 15 years and have never had to clean the aftercoolers, have only changed the coolant at the 5 year interval and "restore" cleaning was necessary.........oh, my oil samples just came back and are virtually the same as they were in 1997 when I surveyed the boat.

 

[Four Suns]

My QSM's don't have undersized heat exchangers... and for the record... I have not had any loose bolts under my engines in 5 months... At least I don't have valves showing up under my engines...

Besides.... sometimes vibration from the engines keeps everyone happy...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Ps9310ih8&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[bmac]

So, Frank and Gary, what are us QSC drivers supposed to do? We don't have no stinking filters with SCA pucks. Should I just use the strips and replace when necessary? I've never checked the coolant chemistry but I have added ES Compleat. I'm guessing it's time to change the coolant at 5 years. Should I also run Restore through the system? Any insight as to what made Cummins drop the coolant filter on the QSC?

 

[fwebster]

Cummins Fleetguard sells SCA in a bottle as well. Without filters containing the additive, you test as you normally do then add the appropriate liquid SCA to the coolant tank (not the expansion resevoir).

 

[douglee25]

Good thread. I learned a lot.

Doug

 

[Alex F]

A quick note that might be helpful for folks that are just learning about diesels (just like me). I spoke to my Cummins mechanic in regards to the overall procedure and he made a very good observation. The boat might be due for heat exchangers service, so there's no point to change the coolant if HE needs to be done. So, when planning this task it's best to do HE and coolant change at the same time. Even if he says that I can wait another season for HE to be serviced, it still wouldn't make any sense to change the coolant now. So, I plan on doing these two items at the same time, either now or next year (depending on mechanic's review when he gets to my boat).

 

[bmac]

Cummins Fleetguard sells SCA in a bottle as well. Without filters containing the additive, you test as you normally do then add the appropriate liquid SCA to the coolant tank (not the expansion resevoir).

Thanks, Frank. I'll get the test strips and liquid SCA and check the coolant condition before I launch. :thumbsup:

 

[LMBoat]

I just bought a '99 450EB with these engines and am learning a lot <thanks>. What's the best way to drain the collant from the engine?

 

[Asureyez]

The Fleet Guard Water Filters are available in several different models with SCA from ) to levels of make up DTA additive built in. You get a Test Strip for a Buck, use it and it tells you what your DTA level is and you put on a new filter with the proper SCA units. I look at my 450 cooling system this way. If the coolant is clean, the DTA is peak, it's topped up, the cap is working properly, I run to spec on operating temp, I leave it alone.

With overall temps of 160 degrees scaling is just not that much of an issue. Yes, there are Hot Spots they might collect mineral scale if the coolant were mineral laden water, but its not. FG ES coolant is not going to throw scale when the DTA is right.

I think the real reason Cummins has dropped the water filter is that the filters rust out rapidly due to galvanic activity between the aluminium bracket and the steel construction of the filter body. This "activity" eats up the seat on the bracket and you get leaks from the gasket. You can run with the filter shut off of the system as the flow is just a shunt route in the circuit.

Do not buy replacement WF's based upon the number of the existing installed filter. You, buy based upon the results of the test strip, make sense?

 

[cod]

Filter Choice:

Since the coolant is new I should use the filter with slightly less SCA units. My mechanic said I need 18gal. According to this matrix I need to have up to 6 SCA units after 250hrs.

Hi Alex,

I am getting ready to change my coolant along with other items including servicing the HE, the aftercooler and changing the exhaust manifold gaskets since I have a small exhaust leak on the port engine. Prior to disassembly, I plan on doing the coolant flush and rinse with the Restore, This thread was very helpful in regards to the SCA requirements. I noticed you stated your mechanic told you you need 18 gals. of coolant.
I just want to give you a heads up that my QSM11's only hold 8 gals. of coolant /engine. Just make sure he was'nt giving you the total coolant needed for both engines as it sounds like a lot for 1 engine and would be suprised that there would be such a difference between engines.