COVID vaccine or not ?

Will you get the COVID vaccine?...

  • Heck yes.. first in line

    Votes: 54 45.4%

  • You go first and I will wait and see

    Votes: 35 29.4%

  • I am already part of the herd

    Votes: 9 7.6%

  • Absolutely not

    Votes: 21 17.6%
  • Total voters
    119
boatman37 said:
So 300,000 COVID deaths this year. What happened to the 40,000/year that die from the flu and maybe another 200,000 that die from old age (made up that number). But you get my point. Nobody has died from the flu or old age all year?
Click to expand...
We'll find out in a few weeks. About 2 months ago we where on pace for about the same number of deaths we had the previous years. Like you say, Covid seems to be replacing other things as a cause of death, especially for the elderly.
 
For all yuze clamoring to be first in line for the vaccine, look up
Autoimmune disease.
Type 1 diabetes
Rheumatoid Arthritis
Psoriasis
Multiple Sclerosis
Lupus
Ciliac

These are just off the top of my head. There are over 20 autoimmune diseases.

Learn what causes AI disease and why the almost vertical growth in cases over last 40 years.

Enjoy your shots.
 
boatman37 said:
So 300,000 COVID deaths this year. What happened to the 40,000/year that die from the flu and maybe another 200,000 that die from old age (made up that number). But you get my point. Nobody has died from the flu or old age all year?
Click to expand...
Golfman25 said:
We'll find out in a few weeks. About 2 months ago we where on pace for about the same number of deaths we had the previous years. Like you say, Covid seems to be replacing other things as a cause of death, especially for the elderly.
Click to expand...
People are still dying from other causes and according to the CDC in much higher numbers than previous years. I don't think "old age" is a recognized cause of death on a death certificate, which is where the data comes from. It would be heart disease, Alzheimer's, etc. instead.
Anyway, the CDC publishes death statistics weekly. Here is a page that compares the expected death rate from various causes to what has been experienced this year. The number over the expected is "Excess Deaths". Those are running quite a bit over expected this year, even more than the documented number of covid deaths. Some of that excess number is undocumented covid but some are probably people who died of other causes. Some of that may also be people who didn't seek treatment for cancer, heart, etc. Plus some who probably committed suicide over despair. Flu deaths are actually way down as it looks like covid mitigations have knocked it out. The statisticians will try to suss out the causes to a more refined degree but it will take time until the full toll with reasons has been evaluated.
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
 
I talked to my youngest daughter last night who is a front line worker and asked where she stood on the vaccine. She has a rare allergy and carries an epipen... I said would you take it when you have allergies... she said sure if anything happens I will just use my epipen no big deal.... seems like this younger generation are a bit more fearless then the rest of us over thinkers :)
 
True story.......

131016038_3834007993297762_1043779288054931091_n.jpg
 
alnav said:
I think you both need to go back and actually read what I wrote as I think we are in complete agreement. After a person is vaccinated, they don't need to concern themselves at all with others who won't. People who choose not to be vaccinated do need to accept the consequences of their non-action. If that means they will be excluded from certain activities, then that will be the result of their choice.
Society as a whole may still continue to care since there will be individuals who are unable to get the vaccine (looks like anybody with an epi-pen, at least for now) for medical reasons. To the extent there are insufficient individuals who want the vaccine to achieve herd immunity, mitigations may need to continue indefinitely.
Click to expand...
Sorry Alnav....I was necessarily directing my post at yours I just happened to be at that spot in the thread and hit reply on your post instead of the bottom. It was more directed to those on this thread who implied that people who don't take the vaccine are putting others in danger.
 
Interesting study that perhaps explains the recent upturn in cases. As has been mentioned, it seems like excessive heat or cold drives people indoors, where the virus spreads much more easily. If indoors at a restaurant or bar, there is much less mask wearing, for obvious reasons.
The Korean study implies our assumptions about how far to distance have been off, at least indoors:
Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus’ spread indoors
A South Korean study raises concerns that six feet of social distance may not be far enough to keep people safe from the coronavirus.
https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...dy-shows-perils-of-indoor-dining-for-covid-19
 
alnav said:
People are still dying from other causes and according to the CDC in much higher numbers than previous years. I don't think "old age" is a recognized cause of death on a death certificate, which is where the data comes from. It would be heart disease, Alzheimer's, etc. instead.
Anyway, the CDC publishes death statistics weekly. Here is a page that compares the expected death rate from various causes to what has been experienced this year. The number over the expected is "Excess Deaths". Those are running quite a bit over expected this year, even more than the documented number of covid deaths. Some of that excess number is undocumented covid but some are probably people who died of other causes. Some of that may also be people who didn't seek treatment for cancer, heart, etc. Plus some who probably committed suicide over despair. Flu deaths are actually way down as it looks like covid mitigations have knocked it out. The statisticians will try to suss out the causes to a more refined degree but it will take time until the full toll with reasons has been evaluated.
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Click to expand...

It's hard to reconcile the CDC data. Remember "Birx said 'there is nothing from the CDC that I can trust'" (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...se-coronavirus-task-force-meeting/ar-BB13R4Wn). That was from May of this year.

Another part of the CDC site (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/provisional-tables.htm) has total USA deaths per month. For 2020 they only show the first 6 months (Jan through June), and that data shows 2019 (Jan through June) had 100K more total deaths for the period than 2020. 2019 = 1,814,000 deaths; 2020 = 1,706,000 deaths. Since June is 5 months ago, it seems unlikely the totals for the first 6 months will change.

We'll see in February 2021 or so what the totals for 2020 actually turn out to be. If we can believe any of it.
 
alnav said:
Interesting study that perhaps explains the recent upturn in cases. As has been mentioned, it seems like excessive heat or cold drives people indoors, where the virus spreads much more easily. If indoors at a restaurant or bar, there is much less mask wearing, for obvious reasons.
The Korean study implies our assumptions about how far to distance have been off, at least indoors:
Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus’ spread indoors
A South Korean study raises concerns that six feet of social distance may not be far enough to keep people safe from the coronavirus.
https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...dy-shows-perils-of-indoor-dining-for-covid-19
Click to expand...

The theory put forward by Dr Ward and his colleagues is that when the air is more humid, aerosol particles of COVID-19 are large and act like droplets, falling out of the air.

When the air is drier, the aerosol particles shrink and can therefore stay suspended in the atmosphere for longer.

For this theory to hold, we need to accept that COVID-19 is spreading through aerosols via airborne transmission.

It is something the World Health Organisation (WHO) initially downplayed but now acknowledges there are cases in closed settings where aerosol transmission cannot be ruled out.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-25/weather-covid-19-coronavirus-and-humidity-study/12587402
 
Blueone said:
I talked to my youngest daughter last night who is a front line worker and asked where she stood on the vaccine. She has a rare allergy and carries an epipen... I said would you take it when you have allergies... she said sure if anything happens I will just use my epipen no big deal.... seems like this younger generation are a bit more fearless then the rest of us over thinkers :)
Click to expand...

Sorry but that's not a valid representative sample. I'm sure your daughter has her own opinion but hers does not mean all "younger generation" adults share it. My 3 kids are adults and none of them are willing to take it.

Besides, all hospital and healthcare workers are required by their employers to take and be up to date on ALL vaccines.
 
alnav said:
Interesting study that perhaps explains the recent upturn in cases. As has been mentioned, it seems like excessive heat or cold drives people indoors, where the virus spreads much more easily. If indoors at a restaurant or bar, there is much less mask wearing, for obvious reasons.
The Korean study implies our assumptions about how far to distance have been off, at least indoors:
Infected after 5 minutes, from 20 feet away: South Korea study shows coronavirus’ spread indoors
A South Korean study raises concerns that six feet of social distance may not be far enough to keep people safe from the coronavirus.
https://www.latimes.com/world-natio...dy-shows-perils-of-indoor-dining-for-covid-19
Click to expand...

I saw that yesterday as well. It certainly puts a new insight on the risks of all inside activities. My takeaway besides the obvious that inside dining is dangerous for all, is that we need to start rethinking how building ventilation is designed. The clear culprit in the S. Korean story is the restaurant’s ventilation system that acted as an aggregator of virus droplets. I also wonder if simply throwing up plexiglass panels is an effective solution.
 
alnav said:
People are still dying from other causes and according to the CDC in much higher numbers than previous years. I don't think "old age" is a recognized cause of death on a death certificate, which is where the data comes from. It would be heart disease, Alzheimer's, etc. instead.
Anyway, the CDC publishes death statistics weekly. Here is a page that compares the expected death rate from various causes to what has been experienced this year. The number over the expected is "Excess Deaths". Those are running quite a bit over expected this year, even more than the documented number of covid deaths. Some of that excess number is undocumented covid but some are probably people who died of other causes. Some of that may also be people who didn't seek treatment for cancer, heart, etc. Plus some who probably committed suicide over despair. Flu deaths are actually way down as it looks like covid mitigations have knocked it out. The statisticians will try to suss out the causes to a more refined degree but it will take time until the full toll with reasons has been evaluated.
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know fancy chart. I am just interested in the raw, year end number. How many people died in 2019 vs. 2020? That's it. Simple as can be.
 
Third Edition said:
It's hard to reconcile the CDC data. Remember "Birx said 'there is nothing from the CDC that I can trust'" (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...se-coronavirus-task-force-meeting/ar-BB13R4Wn). That was from May of this year.

Another part of the CDC site (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/provisional-tables.htm) has total USA deaths per month. For 2020 they only show the first 6 months (Jan through June), and that data shows 2019 (Jan through June) had 100K more total deaths for the period than 2020. 2019 = 1,814,000 deaths; 2020 = 1,706,000 deaths. Since June is 5 months ago, it seems unlikely the totals for the first 6 months will change.

We'll see in February 2021 or so what the totals for 2020 actually turn out to be. If we can believe any of it.
Click to expand...
Agree, the number of provisional deaths reported through June is roughly equal to the number of covid deaths that had been reported by then. BTW, by definition, the final number of deaths will change since provisional is just the real-time approximation from what is currently known. The final death totals will be adjusted statistically over time and only finalized after a year or two.
 
Golfman25 said:
Yeah, I know fancy chart. I am just interested in the raw, year end number. How many people died in 2019 vs. 2020? That's it. Simple as can be.
Click to expand...
If you take the time to fiddle around with the web page, you can get the raw number, which was +275,049 as of 21 Nov.
 
What makes anyone think the NIH, CDC, FDA are interested in saving lives by repurposing inexpensive anti-viral drug?

Why is abortion vehemently defended and funded by US government globally?

See who is really dying of COVID and who are getting all those abortions.

Why are nursing homes COVID incubators?

Lastly, lookup how much money these big pharmaceuticals got from Warp Speed.

We’re getting scammed.
 
Golfman25 said:
Because Covid is one of the only diseases we wait until you're in trouble to treat. No reason to treat it early with things that might work.
Click to expand...

Yes, one physician I know works in the NYC area. He and his coworker physicians had prescribed HCQ for themselves as a prophylactic. The state medical board told them to cut it out.
 
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