Continuation of U-Joint Bellows Saga

OK...I drilled all the way through. I have broken 2: different bolt extractors even after heating the "skull" with oxygen/acetylene from the back side. I cut out the bellows with a knife and gained access to the back side. At this point I see no other choice...but am open to ideas. I am against the wall on this one.

I am able to get a blade in the space of the fiber washer between the gimbal ring and the skull. I have had 2 tool experts to use a slow speed on the saw and plenty of cutting oil using a metal cutting carbide tipped reciprocating saw. The first time I tried it I just ran the saw at high speed and didn't get anywhere.

I had one suggestion of using diamond edge blades but have not been able to find them in 12" length.

I'll try to take some pics of this later and post.
 
Definately slow speed with lots of oil. the issue here is the blade heats up the stainless and hardens it, making the cutting tougher. then the teeth melt off, causing more heat, harder stainless, etc. You will most likely need lots of these blades to cut all the way through. The carbide will wear off in short order, so you will have to change blades often.

I saw some 12" diamond blades online, but they were real pricey.
 
If you've drilled through the bolt, how come you can't continue to drill until the bolt basically collapses on itself?

Doug
 
douglee25 said:
If you've drilled through the bolt, how come you can't continue to drill until the bolt basically collapses on itself?

Doug
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing; just keep drilling larger and larger until it comes out...reverse drill bets even better.

But what I get now that there is probably a bolt extractor that has broken off inside the drilled bolt! I've had that happen to me, and those extractors are usually hardened and nearly impossble to drill out.

Even when you cut it off and finally seperate the pieces, you'll still have to contend with getting the bolt out. Drilling seems to be your only remaining option. I'm amazed at how stubborn that thing is!
 
I am at this point...Yes..there is an extractor broken off inside the bolt. If I can cut through the bolt (behind the extractor) I can get the skull out and into a vice...then I have options. I can drill from the back side and hammer the extractor out with a punch from the back side. I can then drill out the remaining bolt without fear of damaging the gimbal ring. At this point the remaining bolt will not be in the gimbal ring at all so I will only be concerned with the skull....but I have to get the skull out of the ring to be able to work on it. If after all fails and I can't get the bolt out of the skull...I'll replace the skull...not a BIG deal. If I screw up the gimbal ring in doing all of this, then I have to pull the engine to R & R the ring...not what I had in mind just to replace a friggin gimbal bearing, u-joint bellows & shift bellows.

If I have to pull the engine, I will go back with an Alpha take off from a late model donor boat. If I pull one engine I will pull both at the same time and re-rig/re-paint the bilge and update everything. I didn't want to get into that this year but if I have to I will.:smt013
 
How about a whizzer wheel or an electric grinder with a cut off blade in it?

Why do you need something 12" long?

Doug
 
Certainly frustrating. I fought an oil filter on an older SRV220 for two days. All that was left of it is the stamped steel ring that screws onto the block. It took less than a day to pull the motor and get a chisel and BFH to get it off and replace the motor.
Point being, may be best to save the time and go for the option that seems like more work.
 
douglee25 said:
How about a whizzer wheel or an electric grinder with a cut off blade in it?

Why do you need something 12" long?

Doug
Click to expand...

Think about it...I have to reach into the space between the gimbal ring and the skull or outer bell housing. With a 12" blade I can stand behind it all and reach in...no side access.
 
half_full said:
Certainly frustrating. I fought an oil filter on an older SRV220 for two days. All that was left of it is the stamped steel ring that screws onto the block. It took less than a day to pull the motor and get a chisel and BFH to get it off and replace the motor.
Point being, may be best to save the time and go for the option that seems like more work.
Click to expand...

Believe me...this thought has crossed my mind.
 
sprink56 said:
I am at this point...Yes..there is an extractor broken off inside the bolt. If I can cut through the bolt (behind the extractor) I can get the skull out and into a vice...then I have options. I can drill from the back side and hammer the extractor out with a punch from the back side. I can then drill out the remaining bolt without fear of damaging the gimbal ring. At this point the remaining bolt will not be in the gimbal ring at all so I will only be concerned with the skull....but I have to get the skull out of the ring to be able to work on it. If after all fails and I can't get the bolt out of the skull...I'll replace the skull...not a BIG deal. If I screw up the gimbal ring in doing all of this, then I have to pull the engine to R & R the ring...not what I had in mind just to replace a friggin gimbal bearing, u-joint bellows & shift bellows.

If I have to pull the engine, I will go back with an Alpha take off from a late model donor boat. If I pull one engine I will pull both at the same time and re-rig/re-paint the bilge and update everything. I didn't want to get into that this year but if I have to I will.:smt013
Click to expand...

I replaced my gimbal ring and I didn't have to pull the engine. I guess you could have trouble getting to the steering shaft on yours, but everything else is done from the outside.
 
Yeah I'm still confused why you need 12" of reach. Most outdrives I've seen have the pins easily accessed directly from the backside. Take a picture. Maybe that will clear things up.

Doug
 
I hate to jump in here so late in this thread, but I do want to clear a few things up, and maybe help get that helmet on a bench.

Stainless steel and work hardening - it is true that certain grades of stainless will harden if overly "worked". These steels are typically from the Austenitic family, and are typified by the "300" series of stainless steels, the most common of which are 304 and 316 stainless steels. These are the steels you will find on boat items that are exposed to the weather, such as bow rails, hand rails, trim pieces, etc. This grade of steel is NOT used for high strength fasteners, which is what you are fighting with right now. In fact, these grades of stainless steel are comparatively weak (but still not easy to cut or machine!)

Applications requiring high hardness stainless steel are more often manufactured from Martensitic series steels, typified by the "400" series, such as 410 or 416. These steels are usually more free machining, and can be heat treated to a relatively high hardness after the maching process is complete. Again, it is doubtful the hinge pin is made from this series.

Most high strength, corrosion resistant fasteners are made from Precipitation Hardening stainless steels, the most common being 17-4PH. ARP fasteners are made from a similar grade of stainless, as were the defunct SPS fasteners. These steels have a lower work hardening propensity, which doesn't do you much good, since the damn things are already hardened!

The problem you are having with the sawzall blades is twofold. First, from reading the posts, I get the feeling you ran the saw at much too high a rate of speed. Trying to cut hardened stainless at high speed liberates a tremendous amount of heat, which subsequently destroys the cutting edge on the saw blade. You can run that saw all day long at high speed, and it'll just kill blades. You need to run it VERY slowly, with moderate pressure, to be effective. Second, you need to provide some form of effective cooling, right at the blade. I would recommend you find a helper, and let that person flood the saw blade and pin with a light cutting oil, or, if nothing else is available, plain water. Keep the blade cool and wet, run it slowly, and you will get through the pin, with the right blade. And keep the saw dry - we don't need an electrocuted Sea Ray owner!

Blades - disregarding ceramic or other "esoteric" cutting materials, the hardest readily available material for the sawzall blade will be a bi-metal blade with tungsten carbide teeth. Tungsten carbide is considerably harder than the hinge pin, but it is commensurately brittle. A bi-metal blade combines the toughness and flexibility of steel with the hard teeth of tungsten carbide, and should give you the best chances of cutting the pin. Beyond that, your next choice would be a high speed cutting wheel mounted in a pneumatic die grinder. There should be room to get the wheel in there, if it is large enough diameter, since the die grinder holds the wheel at a right angle.

When all is said and done, if you get the helmet out, let me know. If the threads are destroyed, I can likely mill out the damaged area, and either weld or thread an insert into it (or both!). It would then be a simple matter of indicating the proper position, and boring and re-threading the helmet.

Dale
 
douglee25 said:
Yeah I'm still confused why you need 12" of reach. Most out drives I've seen have the pins easily accessed directly from the backside. Take a picture. Maybe that will clear things up.

Doug
Click to expand...

Doug...I think a pic will explain it clearly...meanwhile...think of standing directly behind the drive, not being able to move the body of the saw past the drive studs and maintain a true straight cut perpendicular to the axis if the pin.I have no lateral room at all. A 12" blade reaches in to the rear of the pin with a bit to spare. With that said, I am only able to utilize the end 1"~1-1/4" of the blade with a 12" blade.
 
"The problem you are having with the sawzall blades is twofold. First, from reading the posts, I get the feeling you ran the saw at much too high a rate of speed. Trying to cut hardened stainless at high speed liberates a tremendous amount of heat, which subsequently destroys the cutting edge on the saw blade. You can run that saw all day long at high speed, and it'll just kill blades. You need to run it VERY slowly, with moderate pressure, to be effective. Second, you need to provide some form of effective cooling, right at the blade. I would recommend you find a helper, and let that person flood the saw blade and pin with a light cutting oil, or, if nothing else is available, plain water. Keep the blade cool and wet, run it slowly, and you will get through the pin, with the right blade. And keep the saw dry - we don't need an electrocuted Sea Ray owner!"

I plan to run at about 1/4 speed during the next session.
 
UPDATE!!! I cut through the bolt:smt038..Milwaukee TORCH series 12" long w/18 TPI Bi Metal Tungten Carbide...ran slow with cutting oil. Took about 30 minutes.

Thanks for all of the tips.:thumbsup:

Stay tuned for updates.
 
OK...got the skull out, removed the rest of the bellows, clamp & water hose. I wiped the rest of the crud out of the way and my heart sank.

The grooved mounting flange for the U-Joint bellows on the transom plate is rotted away at the bottom....6~8 O'clock position.:smt089 All that muddy goo that sat in the bellows I guess corroded the aluminum housing. I barely have enough room to to get the new bellows back over it along with the clamp. The question is will it hold or will it leak? Even with the adhesive applied that is required for the bellows I am dubious as to this joint being water proof for long especially considering the forces of vibration, heat and water working on this joint. If there is a repair kit for this I am not aware of it. This is like back surgery...I will get a second opinion.:wow:

All of this leads to removing and replacing the transom assembly. :smt013.....which requires that I pull the starboard engine to get gain access. I have to consider the logistics of where to do this since the size and height of my boat moves this beyond working in the garage/driveway. My HOA will never go for me setting up a gantry and chain hoist for this job so I have to find a secure place to do this work.

I didn't want to do this ...this year but since I am I will pull both engines at the same time and take advantage of the access to re-rig a few things and re-paint the bilge.

Again...all of this could have been avoided with periodic maintenance. Belive me...MerCruiser's statement in the repair manual "Continued operation with a split U-Joint bellows will result in severe damage" is an understatement.

Stay tuned...we're going to really have fun now.:thumbsup:
 
If you grind it back to good metal, you may be able to get some aluminum type epoxy (similar to jb weld but better) and reform the area and grind it back to the shape you're after.

Doug
 
can you get a place that repaires props and skegs to do some welding for you? I've been impressed with what some of those guys can do.
 
Well...in cleaning things up this AM and further observation I found another issue. Now it seems that the gimbal ring on the port side where the pivot pin goes in is wallowed out to the pint where the pivot pin passes right through. There will always be too much play in the ring for safe operation...in my opinion...so this old transom assembly and bell housing is history.

Wish I had known a week ago...just missed a complete Alpha assembly take out A~Z for $275:smt089...but another will come available this next week:smt038 so i will jump on it.

Now it's time for a complete logistics change in setting up to perform this proceedure...we just love boating...keeps us out of trouble.:thumbsup:
 
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