Continuation of U-Joint Bellows Saga

sprink56

sprink56

New Member
Oct 28, 2008
1,288
West Palm Beach, Fl
Boat Info
1979 255 Liberator
Engines
twin Mercruiser 450 HP I/O on Bravo I Drives
OK guys...I am determined to do this but have run into a snag. In removing the drive bell housing (aka "skull or helmet") I have to remove the pivot pin bolts that also serve as the pivot bushings. There is one on each side. The starboard side came out with out too much trouble using the special MerCruiser tool designed for it's removal. The port side looked as if it had been partially stripped out in as much as where the tool/socket inserts into the bolt. I was unable to use the tool because of this. I bought a set of Hansen Easy Out extractors and found one that will bite/grip the inside of the socket bolt.

I have used "Blaster" solvent and propane torch heat to break this bolt loose. I have broken 2: breaker bars and have only been able to move this bolt 1/4 turn. I am at a stopping point here before I damage something permanently.:smt101

How much heat can I apply to the gimbal ring and bell housing before I ruin it? Should I use oxygen-acetylene and get it glowing red hot or not? Has anyone ever successfully drilled this bolt out? It seems incredibly hard to me and I am not sure it can be done with a hand held drill.:huh:

I considered removing the gimbal ring/drive housing as a unit from the transom assembly as a unit but don't think that the gimbal ring can be removed with out first removing the drive housing.:wow:

I am backing off on this and taking a break until I get some solid advice on this.:smt100

All thoughts and suggestions are welcomed.
 
Well, I've taken these apart lots and never had a problem. I'd probably use a mapp gas or propane torch instead of acetylene, just because it's not as hot. With either of these, you shouldn't be able to do anything to aluminum. Put the heat as directly to the bolt as possible, and give it a good 45 seconds or so. You might have to do this a few times, making little advance each time. If this doesn't work, I'd try to drill it out with reverse drill bits. Start with a smaller one to get a pilot hole, and then move up. At the very least, if you go big enough, it may help remove some of the pressure on the bolt. If you're lucky, the reverse bit will back out the bolt, but it sounds like you're waaaaaay past that.

BTW, I don't think you'll hurt the gimbal itself, but you could ruin the seal on the swivel shaft if you get it really hot. That is NOT a fun one to replace.
 
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390x said:
Well, I've taken these apart lots and never had a problem. I'd probably use a mapp gas or propane torch instead of acetylene, just because it's not as hot. With either of these, you shouldn't be able to do anything to aluminum. Put the heat as directly to the bolt as possible, and give it a good 45 seconds or so. You might have to do this a few times, making little advance each time. If this doesn't work, I'd try to drill it out with reverse drill bits. Start with a smaller one to get a pilot hole, and then move up. At the very least, if you go big enough, it may help remove some of the pressure on the bolt. If you're lucky, the reverse bit will back out the bolt, but it sounds like you're waaaaaay past that.

BTW, I don't think you'll hurt the gimbal itself, but you could ruin the seal on the swivel shaft if you get it really hot. That is NOT a fun one to replace.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I am using a Hansen Reverse Spline Easy Out http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://img3.prosperent.com/images/250x250/www.restockit.com/images/Product/medium/HAN53202.jpg&imgrefurl=http://shopzlot.biz/products/Tamisium-Extractor&usg=__-88sUpN9hB3rNztOSJg2jtX4hIA=&h=250&w=250&sz=14&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=hEIbOELckgdOoM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=159&ei=wThSTZftGcmBtgfF9d3qCg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhansen%2Breverse%2Bspline%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial%26biw%3D1432%26bih%3D735%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=804&vpy=80&dur=2330&hovh=200&hovw=200&tx=86&ty=114&oei=wThSTZftGcmBtgfF9d3qCg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0...and I have to say it really bites. I twisted the end out of a 18" 1/2" breaker bar with a 36" cheater pipe. Next I got my neighbor and boating buddy to hold the propane flame tip on the joint between the gimbal ring and the bell housing ( where the threads are) while I used his 24" 1/2 breaker bar with the same cheater pipe. I'm 6-2 /255 and work out 3 days a week...I put all I had in to it and snapped the right angle stud of the breaker bar off in the socket.:smt013

That's when we looked at each other and decided to walk away from this and get some fresh thoughts. My neighbor thinks we need to get it so hot that it's glowing red but that scares me...I don't want to destroy the parts.:huh:

I hoping some MerCruiser guru will read this and come up with the magic solution.:thumbsup:
 
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The steel would melt/be damaged before the aluminum gimble. I've also seen a mechanic take a stick welder and just touch the tip of the rod to the steel bolt until it glows orange, and then back it out. Worked like a charm! I just can't imagine how that bolt could get galled that bad that it won't come out. have you tried going in the other direction just to see if it will move either way?
 
The last time I was on it ...just prior to the tool failure...we saw it move almost 1/4 turn. The starboard side was extremely tight as well and I fought for every 1/4 turn all the way to the last full turn. It was so tight all the way that I was hesitant to put a ratchet on it for fear of snapping the ratchet!!

I read in the manual that these bolt/pins are assembled with Lock Tite...that might be part of the problem. When I put this back together I plan to use anti-seize.

I have been working on cars and boats for 40+ years and have been a Fire Sprinkler Contractor for 38 years. In my life's experience I can only recall one or two instances of a threaded connection being as tough as this one and they involved old pipe fittings put together with "Expando" pipe joint compound. We can always get them to come loose finally with compound wrenches and the application of heat.

I come from a family of metallurgist and am aware of the properties of different alloys. The gimbal ring is a cast piece but I am thinking that the bell housing might be an extruded item...if it is then it is more easily distorted than the gimbal ring. I am tempted to add more heat but don't have any experience with knowing how much is too much.:huh:

" I've also seen a mechanic take a stick welder and just touch the tip of the rod to the steel bolt until it glows orange, and then back it out. Worked like a charm!"....I might have a neighbor that can do this for me.

Some one on the forum has run across this and has an answer for us...I hope...
 
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Well, it definitely sounds like you know what you're doing!!!

I guess you're just screwed. :huh::smt001

Even the green loc tite should come loose with heat. Are you getting anywhere near the steel glowing or changing color? How much heat are you putting to it? I've also seen people heat the hell out of a bolt, and then take a can of keyboard duster, turn it upside down, and spray it on the bolt. That can make the bolt shrink quickly and give you a chance to back it out. If none of this works, you're back to drilling. If you take a good chunk out of the center, it should ease up on you. It'll take some time though.

Good Luck.
 
I'm not really getting it very hot...propane has it's limits. At this point I might as well try the super hot bolt idea...nothing to loose really.

At the wost I'm looking at torching the bell housing off and replacing it with another used one. They are plentiful here in SE Florida and I can get one for $100~$200. I just hate doing it that way...stay tuned.
 
Wow, up here you pay through the nose to get outdrive parts. There's no such thing as used unless you can find one on ebay or something.

Put the heat to it!
 
Years ago we used to use Freon to "freeze" bearing races to make them drop right into their bores. Could you try a combination of heating followed by a shot of cold to break loose the scale/corrosion holding the bolt?
 
Wow. That sounds horrible. One thing I am curious about though...

I work at a power plant, and we have to remove stuck/rusted stuff all the time. I have never heard of applying heat to the BOLT to try and remove it. The heat causes the bolt to expand, which should make the problem worse. The goal is usually to heat up the housing as fast as possible and keep the heat away from the bolt.

I would use acetylene on the housing while applying torque to the bolt to remove it, and try to move it before the bolt starts to really heat up.

Just my $0.02...
 
aqua*holic said:
Wow. That sounds horrible. One thing I am curious about though...

I work at a power plant, and we have to remove stuck/rusted stuff all the time. I have never heard of applying heat to the BOLT to try and remove it. The heat causes the bolt to expand, which should make the problem worse. The goal is usually to heat up the housing as fast as possible and keep the heat away from the bolt.

I would use acetylene on the housing while applying torque to the bolt to remove it, and try to move it before the bolt starts to really heat up.

Just my $0.02...
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me...my concern is how hot can I get it and now I have a new question.

I have an opportunity to get an entire Alpha I transom assembly including Gimbal Ring, Transom Plate and Bell-housing/"Skull" and trim cylinders ...cheap.

Question: is the Alpha I gimbal ring compatible with the No1 "Skull and is the Alpha I skull compatible with the No 1 Gimbal Ring.:huh:

I would hate to layout the money for this stuff and find that I have to pull the engine and replace the ENTIRE transom assembly to get this to work.:smt100
 
I've always applied heat to the bolt because then it will expand the bolt and the surrounding area, but the aluminum will cool slower than the bolt, causing the clearance to increase around the bolt. Let's be honest here, if you're hitting something as small as the swivel pin, you're going to heat everything around it anyway, but I get your point.
 
Weld a bolt with the largest size head possible to the pivot pin. Cut off the threaded portion, and hit it with an impact gun.
 
sprink56 said:
Makes sense to me...my concern is how hot can I get it and now I have a new question.

I have an opportunity to get an entire Alpha I transom assembly including Gimbal Ring, Transom Plate and Bell-housing/"Skull" and trim cylinders ...cheap.

Question: is the Alpha I gimbal ring compatible with the No1 "Skull and is the Alpha I skull compatible with the No 1 Gimbal Ring.:huh:

I would hate to layout the money for this stuff and find that I have to pull the engine and replace the ENTIRE transom assembly to get this to work.:smt100
Click to expand...

I would not heat it to the point of glowing red. You will damage other seals around that area and you will change the metallurgical properties of the metal when you do that. I would try using acetylene on the housing only, moving in a fairly quick circular pattern around the bolt, while a friend put the torque to it to try and break it loose. The aluminum will start to expand before the steel. I also saw the suggestion by skibum, that might work well also. You could use his method while heating the housing at the same time.

I don't know about the compatibility issue. I haven't worked on enough of them to know.
 
I agree that the area around the bolt is supposed to be heated, not the bolt itself. Aluminum melts around 1200 degrees F and SS well over 2600 degree F. You want the aluminum to expand, not the bolt. You can also try heating the aluminum, then applying a few pieces of ice or even using a compressed air can inverted to cool the bolt. Then try torquing the bolt out. And yes, it is (or should be) loctited in place.

Doug
 
OK...update...I was able to drill the Bolt/Pin all the way through last night. I will get a longer easy out today while I am out and I think today is the day that I get it out!!! Stay tuned...:grin:
 
OK...after everything I have tried...still can't get the pivot bolt out. I have had 2: Merc mechanics suggest that I cut it out with a Sawzall. So far I have not found a blade that will even scratch the stainless bolt. I must use a 12" long blade due to the access. I have tried Diablo 16-18 metal and now am about to try Milwaukee "Torch" 18 TPI Carbide Tip...any suggestions?:huh:
 
Wow. That really sucks!:wow::smt089

Usually, you can't cut stainless with a saw, unless it is thin sheet metal. They do make diamond blades for reciprocating saws, I would think that would work better than silicon-carbide. Plasma is the only thing I know that works well, but the space is probably too tight and cutting the pin but not the aluminum is the real trick.
 
My opinion would have been to exhaust all resources with heat or drilling before trying to cut the bolt out.

Doug
 
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