Cockpit AC in a 410 Sundancer?
- Thread starter 370 DA
- Start date
Kreole Kid
Active Member
- May 25, 2009
- 1,710
- Boat Info
- 2004 340 Sundancer - SOLD
2008 Yamaha VX1100 Jet Ski - SOLD
BOATLESS
- Engines
- 8.1 Horizons, V-Drives
My buddy with a Regal 3860 put in a 20k unit in his cockpit and he loves it.
- Mar 25, 2008
- 5,526
- Boat Info
- 2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
- Engines
- MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
Are you doing it for a friend? Or do you now have one (a 410 - I'm looking at your sig pic and info). I'll be interested on your load analysis on the generator...I would love to have it on mine as well...
- Oct 6, 2006
- 12,155
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA
- Engines
- 3116 Caterpillars
I looked at adding cockpit air and decided against it for several reasons.......which when totaled meant a marginal installation with less than acceptable results in a bigger boat with more working room than a 410DA offers.
The generator doesn't require a load analysis............ Sea Ray sizes generators for the loads required to run the 120VAC equipment installed when the boat is built. The problem is going to be peak loads, not running loads. If you install the Webasto unit, you will have to leave the salon AC off when running the cockpit air. Your generator will not handle the starting loads of 3 AC compressors, the seawater cooling pump and, the refrigerator and the cockpit icemaker/refrigerator at the same time.
The space to locate the unit is limited to under the seat area or in one of the side walls. Losing most of the cockpit storage for a marginal result doesn't work for me.
The 410 is a soft top boat and the top and side curtains have no R value so you have direct heat transfer in and immediate cooling loss with any cool air you dump into the cockpit. The Sundancer has no aft enclosure, unless you add one and if you do it alone ads to the heat in the boat because it acts like a greenhouse. Even if you add a drop curtain behind the front seats, limiting the air conditioning to the passenger area up front, the canvas covered cockpit takes 2-3X the BTU's you plan to effectively cool the area. That means about all you are going to wind up with is cold air blowing from a few vents directly in the face of a few passengers, who will still be sweating. Then, routing the air to the dash area means ducting to a plenum box behind the side wall then individual ducts to the dash area plus cutting the dash to install vents.
The AC cooling pump isn't sized to handle the volume of water to cool 3 compressors because the 410 was never offered with a 3rd AC unit. Some Sea Rays are offered with cockpit air and do have a larger volume pump, but the 410 isn't one of them. That means either a new pump or an additional pump. In my case on the 450, the A/C strainer and supply lines were 2 small for the added compressor and pump so the cost would have included another strainer, seacock, intake and plumbing to the cockpit and then on to an additional thru hull. In my case I would have had a custom manifold with switching valves built so I would have the ability to tun any of the AC units with either pump in case I had a pump fail under way. Perhaps this wouldn't be necessary in Chicago, but I felt it was in Florida.
All of this adds up to a very expensive addition which can only end with marginal results due to the soft top and its inherent heat transfer. Sorry for the buzz-kill.............
The generator doesn't require a load analysis............ Sea Ray sizes generators for the loads required to run the 120VAC equipment installed when the boat is built. The problem is going to be peak loads, not running loads. If you install the Webasto unit, you will have to leave the salon AC off when running the cockpit air. Your generator will not handle the starting loads of 3 AC compressors, the seawater cooling pump and, the refrigerator and the cockpit icemaker/refrigerator at the same time.
The space to locate the unit is limited to under the seat area or in one of the side walls. Losing most of the cockpit storage for a marginal result doesn't work for me.
The 410 is a soft top boat and the top and side curtains have no R value so you have direct heat transfer in and immediate cooling loss with any cool air you dump into the cockpit. The Sundancer has no aft enclosure, unless you add one and if you do it alone ads to the heat in the boat because it acts like a greenhouse. Even if you add a drop curtain behind the front seats, limiting the air conditioning to the passenger area up front, the canvas covered cockpit takes 2-3X the BTU's you plan to effectively cool the area. That means about all you are going to wind up with is cold air blowing from a few vents directly in the face of a few passengers, who will still be sweating. Then, routing the air to the dash area means ducting to a plenum box behind the side wall then individual ducts to the dash area plus cutting the dash to install vents.
The AC cooling pump isn't sized to handle the volume of water to cool 3 compressors because the 410 was never offered with a 3rd AC unit. Some Sea Rays are offered with cockpit air and do have a larger volume pump, but the 410 isn't one of them. That means either a new pump or an additional pump. In my case on the 450, the A/C strainer and supply lines were 2 small for the added compressor and pump so the cost would have included another strainer, seacock, intake and plumbing to the cockpit and then on to an additional thru hull. In my case I would have had a custom manifold with switching valves built so I would have the ability to tun any of the AC units with either pump in case I had a pump fail under way. Perhaps this wouldn't be necessary in Chicago, but I felt it was in Florida.
All of this adds up to a very expensive addition which can only end with marginal results due to the soft top and its inherent heat transfer. Sorry for the buzz-kill.............
- Oct 12, 2006
- 1,974
- Boat Info
- "On Vacation"
2006 40 Sundancer
Raymarine E125 & HD Radar + Garmin 5208
- Engines
- QSB5.9 380 Cummins
For wha ***'s worth, our cockpit AC does not keep up with heat loads in the cockpit, rendering it rather useless IMO. This is despite the fact that it's a smaller cockpit, in NJ, using covers on the front glass, with a 16K BTU unit. The cockpit of a sundancer has minimal R value to it and is really difficult to keep cool when the sun is beating down.
HUMPH
Well-Known Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 7,618
- Boat Info
- 2003 410DA
2009 Walker Bay 13’
- Engines
- CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
50HP Honda
I would love an AC in the cockpit but it doesn't make sense even tough I have full camper canvas. Plug in a good fan and open your canvas/isenglass and let some air in.
bahamabreisus
Well-Known Member
- Oct 25, 2007
- 2,556
- Boat Info
- 370 dancer, previous 500,420,390,300 dancers
- Engines
- 454 CI MPI
We purchased a free standing 14BTU for the cockpit. It was useless during the day, it did pull a little humidity out, but no cooling. It did work OK at night, it turned out to be a better heater. Our plan was to try that 1st, then install a real unit. Wound up putting the AC unit the storage room, it has been there ever since.
moparlvr4406
Active Member
- Jun 29, 2011
- 4,462
- Boat Info
- 1985 340DA
1966 SRV180
(2)1960 Sea Ray 600
(2) 1963 808 Cruise-a-bouts
- Engines
- twin 350hp Crusaders 4.0 Onan /
Merc 950 SS
Merc 650
Merc 1100
twin Johnson 40
Way smaller cockpit area but..
I close the camper and leave the companionway door open with a small fan pointing out and turn on the vent for the head
doesn't help much at 100* but does help
I close the camper and leave the companionway door open with a small fan pointing out and turn on the vent for the head
doesn't help much at 100* but does help
AFD
Active Member
- Jul 29, 2012
- 1,250
- Boat Info
- 1997 Sundancer 290 The fat beam version
- Engines
- twins.
Starboard 5.0 alpha 220HP
Port 357 alpha 275hp
4HP Yamaha for Dinghy
jeeps have rag tops and a/c.
HUMPH
Well-Known Member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 7,618
- Boat Info
- 2003 410DA
2009 Walker Bay 13’
- Engines
- CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
50HP Honda
Check the cubic foot difference between the two. An AC in the cockpit would help I am sure but won't cool the entire cockpit. It would be nice to have cool air blowing at the help on hot days.
370 DA
New Member
- Sep 6, 2011
- 44
- Boat Info
- 1998 Sea Ray 370 Sundancer
- Engines
- 7.4 MPI Horizons, BW Velvet 5000
Ok so it's in. I was thinking that 16K was going to be a bit much but it's not.
I slotted out the door to the bench seat next to the helm and mounted the unit in there with the vent hose going to where the Ice bucket was and mounted a vent in that opening.
On a sunny day it will not keep up but keeps the humidity way down. As for the heat part it's awesome. It's been cool the last week and now you can sit in here with little moisture and dew free glass. We are having white mesh screens made for the Strataglass. I will post results with those.
I slotted out the door to the bench seat next to the helm and mounted the unit in there with the vent hose going to where the Ice bucket was and mounted a vent in that opening.
On a sunny day it will not keep up but keeps the humidity way down. As for the heat part it's awesome. It's been cool the last week and now you can sit in here with little moisture and dew free glass. We are having white mesh screens made for the Strataglass. I will post results with those.
