Bend over grab your ankles, Gov-Mint Motors

[Pseudomind]

Then get the paint brush and the Prep -H, here it comes.

First off some background my current electric bill is astronomical, due to supposedly fuel costs.

Bio diesel (Currently $1.00 per gallon subsidy) and Ethanol are subsidized and Ethanol cost more to produce, increases food costs, and does less mechanical work, thereby requiring for the use of more to accomplish the same amount of work.

Now the Media is espousing the Gov-Mint Motors "Volt" it gets 40 miles per charge (I am assuming that is in perfect driving conditions) no traffic congestion, weather issues, no air conditioning running, etc. It is not during the winter, etc. I believe you can get my point.

The Volt is being priced at between $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 each, now I want to know how the market, supply and demand is suppose to support this, and remember I mentioned my electric bill, well guess whose electric bill is going to be subsidizing the folks who cannot afford to pay their electric bills and also for the many community owned vehicles.

Now I have not even begun to mention the new EPA headaches involved with these vehicles used up batteries and the environment located over the complete USA

So buy stock in Prep H now! :smt013

 

[Slippery When Wet]

Just in case you aren't mad enough. Did you know that boats are going to be required to have catalytic converters now too?

Of course, this will create higher costs and maintenance.

:grin:

Regarding the Volt, it's not just GM, all of the other major mfrs are developing them too.

 

[comsnark]

See this thread.

http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28056

The public wants electric cars. Electric is green. They will pay more for electric because it is "good for the environment".



Note: 50% of U.S. electrical power is coal-fire generated.

 

[Dave S]

And pretty soon road tax will be added to our electric bills to to make up for the lack of taxes collected at the pump.

 

[rondds]

This may be the only answer...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imb4tYOk8GE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Pseudomind]

I am not against electric, but come on 40 miles per charge? I drive 12 miles one way to work, but if I have to go the main office and back, then home it would be around 60 miles, so where do I charge up? At work, on a meter, please deposit another 10 quarters for xxx minutes of charging time.

How about for lack of a better example here, soccer mom's, go to work dropping kids off at school, afternoon on the way home shopping, pick up kids, sporting events, etc. I just do not see this 40 miles as a major hyping point, maybe 240 miles?

No I would say something better needs to come along, 40 miles may be quite good if you live within just a couple of miles of work school, shopping, home etc.

It is hard enough to keep the current infrastructure in place in many city's, someone is going to have to do maintenance.

Some areas already have brown outs and rolling blackouts

Talk about unsightliness everywhere you look a pole similar to a parking meter sticking up, I can envision a Wal-Mart parking lot now.

Just figure out how many more power plants will have to be built to just support maybe a 10% usage, as not all vehicles naturally can be electric driven. Supposedly there is currently over 250 million vehicles registered in the USA, so 10% would be 25 million.

To me it sounds like another agenda is being pushed, and this is just an excuse to rush this to market, so the real agenda can come into play. Perhaps more taxes for something.:huh:

just stop and mentally think about how far 40 miles is, under optimum conditions. So can you set there and run the air conditioning unit, or whatever?

 

[highslice]

Note: 50% of U.S. electrical power is coal-fire generated.

That's what makes me laugh. All the "you just plug it into the wall at home and charge it up". It's not like we have tons of idle generating capacity, so where is the electricity going to come from. It's impossible to get a nuclear plant licensed in this country. I guess we could out source - pay Canada and Mexico to build power plants and import the electricity. Is Mexican electricity cheaper? All having electric cars does is change the place the fuel is burned to create the energy to operate the car. Until someone proves that cold fusion is possible, we're kinda stuck.

I also keep hearing about all the gas money we'll save, like the electricity will be free...

 

[Dave S]

After the 40 miles are up it fires up a gasoline generator to run the electric motors. The gasoline motor does not drive the cars wheels..........only the electric motor will do that. Theoretically the car could make it around the world that way if it had to. Rumors are the EPA ratings for the Volt will be over 100 MPG. The Volt will be a desireable car from everything I have read (except for the initial price.) And if it is a popular car then every other manufacurer wil introduce them as fast as they can as well.

I think the Volt could very well start a mad rush for consumers to buy cars like this. But until it is on the market for awhile I'll reserve my final judgement.

Also, in typical government fashion, I doubt our legislators have even thought about where the revenue to maintain roads will come from if everyone uses less gasoline (and therefore there is less revenue collected) as these cars get more popular.

 

[skibum]

Couldn't happen soon enough for me. The price of gasoline should drop if and when this happens.

May I suggest a Honda generator on the trunk lid? Sounds like a great idea to me...

I wonder what will happen when a small town holds a big event and the 20,000 extra cars all need to plug in and recharge before heading home? I can see the headline now, "Boonseboro power plant melts to the ground as thousands of motorists attending the Sugarplum Festival recharge for ride home.".

 

[320Bob]

...The Volt is being priced at between $30,000.00 to $40,000.00 each, now I want to know how the market, supply and demand is suppose to support this, and remember I mentioned my electric bill, well guess whose electric bill is going to be subsidizing the folks who cannot afford to pay their electric bills and also for the many community owned vehicles... :smt013

You apparently don't know much about utility ratemaking. If electric cars add to the overall revenues then next rate case fixed costs get spread over a larger volume thus reducing not increasing rates. I am not a tree hugger but I do this kind of stuff for a living.

 

[comsnark]

Really, in my view Nuclear power and electric cars is the answer.

Of course. . you shouldn't have the electric cars without the nuclear power plants.

Coal fired plants are very non-green. I am not talking about non-green from the bogus CO2 emmission standpoint (that is simple BS). . .I am talking about non-green from the Sulphur burning and strip mining standpoint (which is not BS). Coal is a pretty dirty fuel when you get down to it.

 

[320Bob]

Really, in my view Nuclear power and electric cars is the answer...I am talking about non-green from the Sulphur burning and strip mining standpoint (which is not BS). Coal is a pretty dirty fuel when you get down to it.

Agree with your first point but the second one is potentially only half right. Sulphur can be removed from coal plant emissions with a scrubber however at a cost in both deration of plant output and capital cost recovered from ratepayers. The resultant byproduct of this process is gypsum that often is used to make wall board. Bottom/fly ash from coal combustion is frequently combined with paving materials for roads.

Strip mining does indeed create big hole in the ground and creates an eyesore to a lot of folks. However it is the cheapest form of extraction so you as a electric ratepayer pay less for your electricity as a result.

As far as nuclear power goes, the great wealth spreader with the help of Harry Reid nixed the Yucca mountain nuclear fuel waste cite this past month so no new nucs are likely to be built until the gov comes up with and builds an alternative waste site. Cancelling Yucca Mountain cost the taxpayers $13 billion to date that will now have to be written off.

 

[rondds]

Here's what I'm waiiting for.

 

[Alegria]

320Bob I agree. This Volt if in fact it gets to be rated at 75 to 100 mpg is going to be quite the vehicle. If it means I only have to fill up its 15 gal tank twice a month that sounds good to me. I also like the Tesla S which looks to trying to claim 240 miles on a charge which is also interesting.

The funny thing is that between my phantom loads in my house (flat screen tvs, cable modem, printer, router, cable boxes that load right there would easily charge one of these things with 0 impact....

 

[Slippery When Wet]

Also keep in mind that most charging will be done at night when the grid load is lightest. Also keep in mind that this will be a gradual thing. Electric cars are not going to suddenly replace gas cars and crash the electric grid. There will be ample time for the grid and electric production to ramp up to meet the demands.

I read the cost of the electricity to charge the Volt will be about 80 cents. 40 miles for 80 cents.....not bad.

I also like the idea because it will help keep the cost of gas in check so I can continue to drive my 13 MPG truck and my gas thirsty boat. :grin:

 

[270win]

I also like the idea because it will help keep the cost of gas in check so I can continue to drive my 13 MPG truck and my gas thirsty boat. :grin:

Exactly, my 500hp GTO needs that extra gas....so does my Suburban...and the airplane!:smt038

 

[Slippery When Wet]

Exactly, my 500hp GTO needs that extra gas....so does my Suburban...and the airplane!:smt038

Pics of the GTO or your lying. :grin:

Edit: Pics of all your toys listed in your sig.

 

[comsnark]

Agree with your first point but the second one is potentially only half right. Sulphur can be removed from coal plant emissions with a scrubber however at a cost in both deration of plant output and capital cost recovered from ratepayers.

True. Sulphur and other crap can be scrubbed out. I have seen this technology up close and personal. It ain't pretty. Most of the clean up technologies work most of the time - it sure ain't cheap!

Strip mining does indeed create big hole in the ground and creates an eyesore to a lot of folks. However it is the cheapest form of extraction so you as a electric ratepayer pay less for your electricity as a result.

Cheap doesn't make it right. That same logic applies to the pollution controls on the power plant as well. -> but we do that part at least.

Don't get me wrong. . .I would choose coal power over importing more oil. And oil over the last twenty years has gotten heavier and more sour. So oil is no silver bullet by a longshot.

As far as nuclear power goes, the great wealth spreader with the help of Harry Reid nixed the Yucca mountain nuclear fuel waste cite this past month so no new nucs are likely to be built until the gov comes up with and builds an alternative waste site. Cancelling Yucca Mountain cost the taxpayers $13 billion to date that will now have to be written off.

Morons. :smt101

If we spent as much money developing nuclear power as we do fighting it. . . the safer and more efficient we could make it.

20% of US electric power comes from nuclear plants. The track record is pretty good; considering that most of the plants are actually pretty old at this point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_by_country

Also keep in mind that most charging will be done at night when the grid load is lightest. Also keep in mind that this will be a gradual thing. Electric cars are not going to suddenly replace gas cars and crash the electric grid. There will be ample time for the grid and electric production to ramp up to meet the demands.

I read the cost of the electricity to charge the Volt will be about 80 cents. 40 miles for 80 cents.....not bad.

I also like the idea because it will help keep the cost of gas in check so I can continue to drive my 13 MPG truck and my gas thirsty boat. :grin:

Yup. Replacement will be gradual. Of course, ANY power plant just seems to get tied up in legal knots these days. NIMBY applies to more than nuclear power. That's too bad.

Now for real fun. . .$0.80 for 40 miles

Gasoline: 36.6 kWh/US gal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline)

So. . .assume $2.50/gallon. . .we have 6.83 cents / Kw.

Compare to your electric bill. . .For last month I was just over 13 cents / kW in PA and 17 cents in NJ (that is net: $/kw, generation plus transmission)

Call it 15 cents / kw.

edit: Deleted more math.

:grin:

 

[comsnark]

Ah. . screw it (pouring whiskey)

Take a car. Say. . .this one. . http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/features/#page=Feature32

Call it 18 mile/gallon. That's an all in number. Using 36.6kw/gallon. . that's 0.49kw/mile

Take this car. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Volt

8kwh battery (usable - per wikipedia). Fully charged. 40 miles. Thats 0.20kw/mile.

Hmmm. Over Twice as energy efficient as the randomly chosen gas powered car. I buy that.

Now look at cost!

Mustang Shelby: 100 miles = 18 miles / gallon = $2.5 /gallon = = => $13.89 ( 14 cents / mile)
Volt 100 miles = 8kwh/40 miles = $0.15 / kwh = = = > $3. (3 cents / mile)

Hmmm. Crap. That can't possibly be right. . can it?

Someone please find my error: This almost makes me think that electric cars are really energy efficient in real work terms.

Let's take a different car: If we take this car: http://www.vw.com/jetta/completespecs/en/us/; at 35mpg (average) you get. . .

Jetta TDI: 100 miles = 35 miles / gallon = $2.5 / gallon = = = > $7.14 (7 cents per mile)

still. . .crap.

 

[270win]

Pics of the GTO or your lying. :grin:

Edit: Pics of all your toys listed in your sig.

GTO on the lift during the disk brake conversion, 64SS underneeath for the weekend-

GTO before the motor build, but it'll be a sleeper, I'm keeping the stock wheels-

I don't have a pic of the track rat Nova on this laptop and I deleted it's pics from photobucket. But this is the street/stripshow Nova, it's a 72 that I sold last summer...

The sea ray last year, lots of work done so far and being done this week so I have to update my pics-

I need more toys!!!

I have some better pics of the 64SS Impala on the other puter...