AXIUS Drive H/W & S/W Updates Announced

[fwebster]

Well, if I were in your position, I suspect "feeling vulnerable" would be an understatement.......raising mortal hell might be more like it.

You guys just keep in mind that Sea Ray is your leverage with Mercruiser/Brunswick on this one. Sure, the dealer did the selling and promising but it is Mercruiser that is controlling the fix. You'll likely get better results quicker if you try to keep your relationship with the dealer/SeaRay as non-adversarial as you can.........I mean you can politely ask for your money back with a smile on your face, but without dragging a lawyer into it.

 

[wetpaint]

i would send a certified letter to Searay and merc......cc your dealer, your attorney, your states better business bureau, your states attorney generals office and club searay forum....

I bet you get a call within 10 days.

 

[ANYTIME]

i would send a certified letter to Searay and merc......cc your dealer, your attorney, your states better business bureau, your states attorney generals office and club searay forum....

I bet you get a call within 10 days.

Thanks for the suggestion. Right now, the "jury is still out". Certified letters and lawyers may be used when DIPLOMACY fails.

 

[Donald46]

On March 6th I spoke with the owner of my Sea Ray dealership about the issues I am having with the Axius system. He said and did call Merc-Cruc for me and they stated they are working on the Auto Tracker system for me. I also stated that I was going to send a letter to Mr. Rick Stone at Sea Ray.

On March 9th I sent a certified return receipt letter to Mr. Stone and dropped off a copy of the letter to my dealer. Who was very appreciative that I was keeping him in the loop with my issues.

No need to contact the Better Business Bureau or anyone else yet. I will wait 7 to 10 days to see what happens.

 

[wetpaint]

i never said send it, just cc them........i had a problem with seacraft two years ago....all my cushions turned pink.....i did some research and they used open cell vs closed cell foam.....they obviously gave me a hard time for months......within 21 days, my dealer had all new cushions........

 

[geriksen]

Many of us tried to warn about being an early adopter of a Mercury product.
I am amazed that the upgrade is the only issue u guys r having.
I am sure they will eventually fix it. It is doubtful that nasty letters and lawyers will help those engineers get it done more quickly. However, I certainly understand the frustration.

During my 11yr tenure as a tech at a Sea Ray dealership I was involved in several cases where Mercury acted like we were the only people in the country having a certain problem (even though we had the same problem on several boats). When I would attend service schools, the other techs were having the exact same issues and were also being told they were the only ones. A month or two later, lo and behold, along comes a fix from mercury for the problem nobody was having.

As far as Sea Ray "leaning on Mercury" goes.... Think about it for a minute. They are both owned by Brunswick. Is Sea Ray going to threaten to use Volvo instead? Not likely. There is no competition in that market.

Personally, I think skyhook is an idiotic idea. I am sure they could design a car that could drive with nobody at the wheel too. Then I could lay down in front of my car and let it drive over me. Then I could sue and retire in my wheelchair! It's no wonder the lawyers (for brunswick) are concerned. I'll be there are other lawyers who can't wait for this system to get up and running. Maybe they should write Mercury to ask them to hurry up and get those systems operational. ;-)

 

[RollerCoastr]

Personally, I think skyhook is an idiotic idea. I am sure they could design a car that could drive with nobody at the wheel too. Then I could lay down in front of my car and let it drive over me. Then I could sue and retire in my wheelchair! It's no wonder the lawyers (for brunswick) are concerned. I'll be there are other lawyers who can't wait for this system to get up and running. Maybe they should write Mercury to ask them to hurry up and get those systems operational. ;-)

Grant, isn't that aimed more at AUTOPILOT, which has been dang near everywhere for as long as we can remember? Skyhook simply reads GPS and heading info to keep the boat stationary using thrust. Even if you call that "driving", it's on a significantly lower-scale and a lower-risk of abuse than autopilot, wouldn't you agree?

 

[fwebster]

Until you can get out and swim around a boat or leave it unsecured at a dock whlie its on autopilot, that isn't a comparable situation.

For its intended purpose, Skyhook is probably a neat function but consider the liability factor for the manufacturer if it is misused or if, as they say, $h*& happens........like Homeland Security decreasing GPS accuracy a few years ago when the terror threat was raised and instead of = or- 3' we got + or -15'. Picture Skyhook adjusting position under those conditions.


Grant-

My point in suggesting the non-adversarial approach with Sea Ray was to get them to be these guys advocate.....Sea Ray has a lot more leverage with Mercruiser than 1 or 2 boat owners do speaking for themselves.

 

[RollerCoastr]

What???

Swimming while on skyhook and walking away from the helm at cruise on autopilot is an easy comparison if you ask me.

 

[Woody]

The examples of missuse...Skyhook at a fuel dock instead of tying up, Skyhook in your slip while you deploy fenders...can Skyhook really perform that good? All I picture is Skyhook bouncing off docks and pilings while trying to hold position. I'm wondering if a bigger holdup than liability is behind the delay, like a system that can't function reliably or as well as it has been marketed.

 

[Woody]

Would the liability to SR really be any different if a dumb boater used Skyhook to hold position while his kids swam off the stern as compared to letting them swim when he manually holds position?

 

[fwebster]

Can Skyhook do it? I can't answer that, but after spending a couple of hours playing with a Zeus/Cummins 43DA I can tell you I don't doubt it one bit.

The system is both sensitive and highly responsive. If Skyhook has no input lag, the system is only limited to the accuracy of GPS. Within about 5 minutes, I could handle the 43 as precisely as I can the boat I've owned for 12 years. That Mercruiser has come this close to getting it right on the first generation is remarkable.

Based on what I've seen so far, I'm betting that liability is the only hold up for Skyhook.

 

[geriksen]

Would the liability to SR really be any different if a dumb boater used Skyhook to hold position while his kids swam off the stern as compared to letting them swim when he manually holds position?

yes

 

[fc3]

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

First of all, skyhook is a dumb idea. GPS positioning data has a small amount of jitter in the position data. This normally isn't a problem because the unit is in motion and the jitter deltas are smaller than the movement delta. It is also not a problem because jitter of a few meters isn't going to appreciable affect one's course. But jitter of a few meters is going to affect station-keeping. Software can be designed to filter out that jitter, but then accuracy declines. What happens when some idiot is using skyhook to hold station near a bridge when some satellites go under the horizon and new ones come over, etc and now GPS signals that he's a meter or two off position. Skyhook corrects to be a location currently occupied by another boat or the bridge. Nice feature.

Oh well. technical issues aside, how big of a deal is it to hold station? You already have a farking joystick with the system already installed! How much less do you want to have to do? Do you a system to open your beer cans and drink your beer for you too?

Six pages of this is a bit much. For those who don't wish to go back and read it all, allow me to provide a concise executive summary:

Executive summary

Wah wah wah wah wah no skyhook wah wah wah wah
wah wah sea ray lied wah wah wah wah my sales man wah wah wah wah

 

[jg300da]

Even though fc3 was probably voted most likely to get punched in his High School yearbook, I begrudgingly agree. If Skyhook is the only remaining issue why all the drama? You have a functioning boat use it. The manufacturer will either work the bugs/liability issues out or reimburse you. Eventually.

 

[Hampton]

I thought GPS satellites were geosynchronous - aka they don't disappear over the horizon. Also, though I can't quote the source, I thought I had read about a year ago that the system does compensate for fluctuations in GPS data. When I was reading about it (and I did a lot of reading), I immediately questioned the use of satellites to maintain position around a fuel pump, but after further reading, was convinced that the non-idiots had come up with a system to compensate. It may have been gyros, or software, I don't remeber the details, but I do remember being satisfied with the explanation.

 

[Hampton]

or, run their boats in an area where birds are walking around.......that I worry about.

OK, OK, it was me! But, that was in 1989, and I was in my first power boat, at night, under the moon, in a shallow lake, at idle, with my wife, on a romantic evening, and the ducks weren't walking around, they got up and walked away to avoid being hit by us at 2 mph, and we didn't get stuck in the mud, I just put it in reverse and avoided the mud bar, and we kept boating, and continued to learn, and still make mistakes, or take chances (minor ones), and have fun, and learn, and I have run out of run-ons. Now, 20 years later, look out! I'm still boating. (Sorry, Frank, I always heed your excellent advice, but this one involved a very broad stroke of an even larger brush.)

 

[ANYTIME]

....... If Skyhook is the only remaining issue why all the drama? You have a functioning boat use it.....

You apparently haven't read the entire thread. I started this thread to discuss AXIUS updates, not to get into a pissing contest with other forum members.

Here is a "cut and paste" of a request for information sent to me, dated 13 Sep 2008...

Question from Presentation ---

Hey Sam,

Can you give us a update on skyhook? .....Say a person has engaged skyhook as they prepare the boat for docking. As they are deploying a fender over the bow rail they fall into the water, a real world possibility. They will need to re-board the boat, possibly with no other person onboard and thus no one to disengage the skyhook feature......quote]

My Response: --- When I leave the dock, I wait until I am clear of the fairways and in open water before retrieving my fenders....and....when I return to the marina, I stop the boat prior to entering the marina and re-deploy my fenders. there is no reason for me to use SKYHOOK for this.

I anticipate using SKYHOOK while awaiting an opening at the gas dock or a for a bridge opening. While using SKYHOOK, either my wife or I will be at the helm. If I am operating by myself, I will not use SKYHOOK...oeriod!!

In my opinion, SKYHOOK is the least attractive feature of AXIUS. I love the close-quarters handling and once implemented, I look forward to using their AUTOTRACK features, which is similar to an AUTOPILOT.

In any given situation, someone is going to do something incredibly stupid and there are bound to be serious injuries and loss of life. SKYHOOK is just another feature for this to happen.

Now back to more observations. This thread is about MORE than SKYHOOK. The following is a list of my 3 posts about the implementation of AXIUS on my boat:

1. 5 Aug 08 - Prince William Marine called to let me know they would be updating AXIUS.

2. 27 Sep 08 - Prince William Marine and Mercruiser completed the updates and delivered the boat back to me at my marina. Two of the three updated functions don't work. Auto Track works great, Waypoint Track and Waypoint Merge do not work. SKYHOOK was not yet implemented, although Prince William Marine delivered a SKYHOOK Safety DVD to me.

3. 20 Nov 08 - Prince William Marine completed installing the "fix" provided by Mercruiser. The two functions still don't work.

Now....where in this thread did I, or anyone else say that all we were ticked off about was not having the elusive SKYHOOK feature implemented on our boats???

For what its worth, I have the understanding that when or if SKYHOOK is implemented by Sea Ray, it will be at no additional cost, up-front or periodic, to me.

 

[fwebster]

Sorry John, it wasn't you. The Sea Ray that ended up where the birds were walking happened to be a salesman on a new owner orientation. He let the new owner drive while he was looking for something in one of the manuals to explain a feature on a newly delivered boat and the new owner parked her on a sand bar at 30 mph. It wasn't night time and (trust me on this one) there were no good looking women involved.

My point was not to indite new boat owners or newbies, but to illustrate that a complex feature added to an already drastic or new challenge of mastering a new boat creates a potential liability for the manufacturer.

 

[KayKook]

Even though fc3 was probably voted most likely to get punched in his High School yearbook, I begrudgingly agree. If Skyhook is the only remaining issue why all the drama? You have a functioning boat use it. The manufacturer will either work the bugs/liability issues out or reimburse you. Eventually.

Anytime has been a drama queen about this boat and all it's techno-systems on several sites since he bought the boat.
This whining is to be expected when you buy a new boat, with new, unproven, untested technology. It's a testament to typical Mercruiser MO, bringing this stuff to market before it is really ready.