AXIUS Drive H/W & S/W Updates Announced

The rep and service tech. updated my system this past week. I went down Sunday to check it out. It is pretty cool! They did say that Sea Ray is "suppose" to turn on Skyhook feature on in May. That is what I was told. The auotpilot works well as stated above. Still have a lot to learn.
:smt038
 
The control quadrants all have SkyHook buttons on them, but I am told 2 things.......Mercruiser/Brunswick has not fully considered or dealt with the product liability aslects of SkyHook and , second, they believe that Skyhook will be a fee for service feature with a monthly cost...our dealer compares it to GM's OnStar.


Now some observations:
1. I suspect over-zealous sales folks and perhaps dealers have use Skyhook as a selling tool prematurely.......our does not; they say up front, its a feature to be added later.
2. Sea Ray does not have anything to do with when or if Mercruiser sctivates Skyhook, so I would keep Sea Ray and your dealer relationship in this deal non-adversarial and elicit their help as an ally to fight the battle with Mercruiser/Brunswick.
3. After running both an Axiius and Zeus boat and knowing what Skyhook is supposed to do, turning it loose on typical new Sea Ray owners scares the absolute hell out of me.
4. If I had forked over nearly a million $ for a new 43 or 48 with Zeus drives and then was told I needed to pay $16/month more for a piece of software, then "upset" would be a very mild description of my reaction given that its functionality is already located on the boat I owned and paid for.
 
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Glen said:
The rep and service tech. updated my system this past week. I went down Sunday to check it out. It is pretty cool! They did say that Sea Ray is "suppose" to turn on Skyhook feature on in May. That is what I was told. The auotpilot works well as stated above. Still have a lot to learn.
:smt038
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I'm just curious to all those who have the new Axius system. How much value is "skyhook" in relation to the 7-17K extra charged for the Axius system? Would you guys have paid the extra amount for the other Axius advantages alone? Brian
 
Skyhook gives the boat driver the ability to have the boat hold position automatically. In qualified, experienced hands this may be helpful to free the operator's hands while he does other things, but remains at the helm.

But, the system will adjust position by applying thrust and power as needed when the it determines a correction is necessary. For the Zues system with Cummins engines, the system can apply power up to 1800 rpm in normal mode. That is enough to cause even an experienced boater to lose footing during a direction change or suck lines or even people under the boat. The boat's operator has no control over which prop runs in what direction or what angle. Now consider the guy with minimum experience who moved up to a boat bigger than he normally would have because of the ability to easily handle docking situations. It happens........I just talked with one new boat buyer who's first ever boat is a 33DA, and one last week who was trying to trade a 15 ft Whaler for a 43DA......both felt comfortable because of the joystick control.

OK, now the liability and my concern is when you let your mind wonder to the what ifs:

-someone parks a boat at a fuel dock and uses Skyhook instead of tying up.
-someone turns Skyhoook on and lets his kids cool off in the water behind the boat.
-someone uses Skyhook instead of anchoring and proceeds to fish off the stern.
-someone enters his slip, sets Skyhook and climbs up on the bow to secure lines
-someone sets Skyhook and goes to the salon where its air conditioned.

In the configuration described to me by the dealer and sales folks, there are no safe guards to Skyhook. Something simple like a transom door interlock or a seat pressure switch to shut down the engines when opened, while elemental, would eliminate some of the risk. I am not anti-technology, but "just because they can, doesn't mean they should" applies here. Without some safeguards somewhere in the system, we will be reading about someone getting hurt because Skyhook is so automatic.
 
All great points Frank. Thanks! The "other" Frank (FC3) alway's talks about Mercury releasing product's too soon. Maybe this is the case here as well. Time will tell.
 
I just don't even see a need for something like Skyhook. Axiius and Zeuz make boat handling easy enough don't they. Shouldn't someone be at the helm of a running boat? This generates a question....for those with auto pilot...do you ever leave the helm unattended? Heck, I don't even know if that's possible, never been on a boat that had it.
 
The understanding that I get from SR and my dealer is that the hold up on sky hook is the safety device to disable it or "warn" when it is active. To answer others the system is not the only reason to buy this type boat. I would have purchased mine without Axius. Just a luxury. Love docking with it. I also do it the old fashioned way some. The autopilot and skyhook are just for "boasting" for those late night conversations hanging out around the dock.:smt043
 
Woody said:
I just don't even see a need for something like Skyhook. Axiius and Zeuz make boat handling easy enough don't they. Shouldn't someone be at the helm of a running boat? This generates a question....for those with auto pilot...do you ever leave the helm unattended? Heck, I don't even know if that's possible, never been on a boat that had it.
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Skyhook would be great around here when waiting for bridges forever. Even though I know I'm wrong, you would think if someone could afford an axius/zeuss equipped boat, they should have enough common sense to not do those listed by Frank.

There are many times when we're out that the helm is unattended with the auto pilot on. But its 40+ miles offshore fishing with an alarm set on the radar to alert when something is within 2 miles. Not my boat though, I'm just along to help feed the C12's.
 
Boaters with experience in larger boats and those who have learned the safe way to enjoy this sport are not the worry with Skyhook........its they guys who fill their cockpit and bilge with fuel by shoving the fuel fill nozzle in a rod holder, or the ones who fill their water tanks with gasoline........or pump out their water tank with the waste pump on the dock.......or who use their boats one weekend a year ---Labor Day, or empty their holding tank with a shop vac.......or don't know what tide is until they ask you for help getting their boat off the beach...or, run their boats in an area where birds are walking around.......that I worry about.

I keep my boat at a large Sea Ray dealer's marina, and I've seen every one of those things done by a new Sea Ray owner sometime in the last 20 years.
 
Newbie said:
Skyhook would be great around here when waiting for bridges forever. Even though I know I'm wrong, you would think if someone could afford an axius/zeuss equipped boat, they should have enough common sense to not do those listed by Frank.
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Frank is right though. As much as we would like to think the other guy is “just as capable as I am,” many times they are not. I haven't been boating in this area as long as Frank but I've seen almost everything that he has on his list. And while I don't doubt the usefulness of skyhook to an experienced captain, such as you, who uses it for its intended purpose. You are by far outnumbered by the inexperienced that will use it just as Frank describes, and some ways that none of us can even think of due to their incompetence.
 
I can't believe Mercury would release the skyhook feature at all. There are way too many safety and liability issues. Add in the incompetence factors that Frank mentioned and disaster is just around the corner.

I don't think that the lawyers are going to approve this one even if Mercury develops some type of feature that requires someone to stay at the helm when it is active. Even in that scenario I can see someone having their six year old staying at the helm while they are off doing whatever they think they need to do.:smt021
 
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Guys, don't get me wrong with theis Skyhook thing.........if I had it, I'd use it. Holding position at a bridge, fuel dock, etc. in big boat in windy conditions with a tide running can test your handling skills and blood pressure meds. I just think this is a case where a good idea wasn't fully considered before it was exposed to the marketing part of the business.

I do know that Mercruiser is retro-fitting existing Zeus (can't say about Axiius) with an alarm system of some type.
 

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With the way you guys are talking you would have banned GPS in your car because you may look at the screen.

This feature is going to happen, no matter what and it is a needed feature. Maybe a hand held remote around a persons wrist to disable it, who knows.. But if Mercury doesn't enable it, someone else will.

I for one would love this feature.

I bought a boat that was sold to me with it and if I don't get it, I too will call my lawyer.
 
I have read all of your comments both pro and con about the Axius system as a whole. We purchased the system because it takes the anxiety out of docking and maneuvering in tight spaces.

The Auto Track system in NOT an auto pilot system, I spoke with my Ray Marine dealer and he said that a true auto pilot systems transmits and receives information to the GPS. This system is an independent system that only has one path. I also read the Operations/Maintenance manual and its states its a separate system.

There are only three or four area's that I would use Sky-Hook on the Great South Bay in Long Island at this time. If I where waiting for a lock or bridge to open, trying to go down a narrow channel with boats ahead and behind me, it would be worth its weight in gold, not to keep throttling back and forth to stay in place.

Someone mentioned that we should not blame Sea Ray for these issues that it's Merc-Cruc fault. I attended the NY Boat Show in Dec. of 08 and "Formula" had a boat with Sky-Hook already working on the vessel. The boat had a warning sign on the stern door and an audible on smart craft. So yes, lets blame Sea Ray.

I can not speak to you about some of our fellow boaters who are either new to boating or who are just careless. I can only state that I was promised these feature when I purchased the boat in June of 08 and I still have not received anything in writing that says when of if these features will be installed.. The RUMOR mill says that Sky-Hook will be released in 2010. After what I have paid for this boat $16.00 a month does not sound like too much!
 
Isn't a sticker with a warning label enough? Isn't there other liabilities with boating i.e.: auto pilot.......what if i am on auto pilot and I fall asleep at the wheel......I am a ticking time bomb waiting to go off when I hit land.....It is all about "intended use"......if you dock the boat, hit skyhook and get off and dont use lines......you know what, your a friggin idiot.......I saw a guy last year dock at the fuel dock, he got off as he docked and the boat was still in gear......he was left on the fuel dock and his boat continued and luckily hit the other dock 50 feet away....
 
fwebster said:
Boaters with experience in larger boats and those who have learned the safe way to enjoy this sport are not the worry with Skyhook........its they guys who fill their cockpit and bilge with fuel by shoving the fuel fill nozzle in a rod holder, or the ones who fill their water tanks with gasoline........or pump out their water tank with the waste pump on the dock.......or who use their boats one weekend a year ---Labor Day, or empty their holding tank with a shop vac.......or don't know what tide is until they ask you for help getting their boat off the beach...or, run their boats in an area where birds are walking around.......that I worry about.

I keep my boat at a large Sea Ray dealer's marina, and I've seen every one of those things done by a new Sea Ray owner sometime in the last 20 years.
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Let me see if I understand your comments......I, along with several other Sea Ray Axius boat owners are concerned (complaining) about Sea Ray/Mercruiser's lack of support in fully implementing ALL OF THE ADVERTISED AXIUS FEATURES that we have paid for in advance, nearly a year ago and you, with your infinite wisdom have the audacity to tell us that those of us who have bought into this new technology are ".... guys who fill their cockpit and bilge with fuel by shoving the fuel fill nozzle in a rod holder, or the ones who fill their water tanks with gasoline........or pump out their water tank with the waste pump on the dock.......or who use their boats one weekend a year ---Labor Day, or empty their holding tank with a shop vac.......or don't know what tide is until they ask you for help getting their boat off the beach...or, run their boats in an area where birds are walking around.......that I worry about..."

What does that have to do with the lack of commitment by Sea Ray and/or Mercruiser? Are you chastising those who may only have the opportunity to use their boats one weekend a year?

I have followed your postings on this Forum for the past couple of years, appreciating the depth and breadth of your wisdom and experience, that you share with those who may ask for comments, suggestions or advice. That said, I am sad to say that with regards to the reference comments I have highlighted, that your statement is blatantly offensive to me.

In my lifetime, I have owned four boats and have spent many years at sea. I retired from the Navy and two major corporations and still consider myself a "newbie" while using my boat. I freely admit to inserting the waste pump nozzle in the rod holder (once), but please ... if you are worrying about me being on the same waterway with you while driving my Axius boat, send me your email address and I will be happy to give you advance warning before I venture out on the water again, thereby giving you ample opportunity to avoid me.

Grrrrr!!!!
 
Sam........take a breath!

One of the problems with forums as a way to communicate with each other is that frequently we don't, or are not able to follow the whole train of thought in a series of exchanges. That is particularly problematical when we choose the "see all post in the last 24-48 hours" search box.

Apparently, what you caught was the end of a series of exchanges on why Mercruiser has not activated Skyhook. I mearly cited what I was told was the reason for Mercruiser's foot-dragging on Skyhook. When someone asked why Skyhook concerned me, I cited actual examples of what I have seen new Sea Ray owners do as a way to put the whole potential product liability thing in perspective.

You quoted only part of my earlier post.......and assumed that I said "all of you who bought into this new technology" were accidents on the way to happen. What I really said was:

"BOATERS WITH EXPERIENCE IN LARGER BOATS AND THOSE WHO HAVE LEARNED THE SAFE WAY TO ENJOY THIS SPORT ARE NOT THE WORRY WITH SKYHOOK........its they guys who fill their cockpit and bilge with fuel by shoving the fuel fill nozzle in a rod holder, or the ones who fill their water tanks with gasoline........or pump out their water tank with the waste pump on the dock.......or who use their boats one weekend a year ---Labor Day, or empty their holding tank with a shop vac.......or don't know what tide is until they ask you for help getting their boat off the beach...or, run their boats in an area where birds are walking around.......that I worry about.

You omitted the part excluding you and others like you from those who concern me. So be offended if you want, but understand it is because you chose to read into my post something that was not there and that I more than adequately qualified.


Now, as to the whole Skyhook thing, if you have read much of what I post on Mercruiser products, you know I am not a proponent of early-adopting anything Mercruiser comes up with . Unfortunately, you and others like you have found out exactly why. Mercruiser will rush product to market before it is fully tested and ready for the consumer. I bought my lessons several years ago with the Merc Sport Jet and oil injected 2-strokes. Since then we've seen end users put in the position of doing prototype testing on products they paid for........aluminum exhaust manifolds on 8.1's.....aluminum fuel coolers on 6.2's and 8.1's.......and now Axiius and Zues drives.

While I happen to love the Zeus drives, the performance of Zeus boats and the joystick controls, I just don't trust Mercruiser to have them ready for broad market application, even though they are available for sale at every Sea Ray dealer. If I were an Axiius or Zeus owner, I'd be just as upset as you are about the system not having features I was sold and thought I was buying.
 
FWebster:

I too, take exception to your comments about my and others bringing to light some of the short comings of both Mer-Cruc and Sea Ray. I have many years of Sailing and Power Boat experience in and around Long Island NY. Fortunately, I have not try to fill the rod holder with gas.

As a South Shore boater I have rubbed a few sand bars in my time and picked up a tire in my prop. Yes, this is a new boat and it does take some time to get use to so we are "NEWBIES" with this type of technology.

I purchased this boat in June of 08 and I am still waiting for the features I paid for if you think we are always crying in our towel about these problems then I will send you my payment book and you can start making the payments.

This site is a place to go and discuss the good and bad issues that all Sea Ray boaters are having. I know and I hear from some of the "Old Salts" that with the new systems this is not real boating. These are the same guys who when I am at the Marina have their gel coat patches out and are working on the holes in their hulls because they have problems docking in our small slips in high winds.

But, please remember that you are a southern coast sailer and I am a north eastern coast sailer so, I doubt very much if we will ever be sailing the same waters. If you ever get up this way please do not hesitate to contact me and we can take out on our boat.
 
Frank...

Thank you for your response. Perhaps I am feeling especially vulnerable with the potential of "being stuck" with an expensive boat that is not "ready for Prime Time".

I will take you off my "alert list" when I go to sea!! :smt001
 
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