Asian Carp in Lake Michigan!

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Sep 6, 2009
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Michigan City, IN
Boat Info
2001 340 Sundancer
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6.2L w/ genny
No good news here :smt009

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers says it has more evidence indicating the dreaded Asian carp is in Lake Michigan, making the announcement hours after the U.S. Supreme Court decided not to force Illinois to do more to keep the fish out of the lake.
The Corps says researchers combing the Calumet Harbor near Lake Michigan for the presence of Asian carp have found two DNA samples that seem to indicate the invasive fish has already breached the lake near [URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL].
One sample was in Calumet Harbor a half-mile north of the Calumet River; the other was in the Calumet River north of the O'Brien Lock. Both samples were collected Dec. 8. The agency said that two earlier tests in the area didn't show carp DNA.
Researchers have also found trace amounts of Asian carp DNA north of an underwater electronic barrier near Lockport, suggesting at least some fish have found a way to bypass what was once called "the last line of defense." Researchers still aren't sure how any carp got beyond the electric barriers.
In a release from the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, Dr. David Lodge, director of the eDNA project at the University of Notre Dame that was doing the sampling, said not all of the samples have been analyzed. He also said that there is "no known correlation between the number of positive samples and the quantity of Asian carp."
"Our current eDNA process provides indications of likely presence, but it does not yet provide information about Asian carp quantity that may be present ... age, size, how they got there or how long they may have been there," said Lodge in the release.
"Clearly this is not good news," said Major General John Peabody, Commanding General of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers' Great Lakes and Ohio River Division, in the release. He also said that his agency will continue its efforts to "defeat this threat to the Great Lakes."
"It is important to keep additional fish from migrating into the lake to lower the possibility that a self-sustaining population will result," Lodge said in the release, arguing for the continuation of efforts to limit the fish's ability to migrate into the Great Lakes.
Earlier today, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected a request from Michigan and other Great Lakes states to force Illinois to stop the flow of water from its rivers into Lake Michigan.
In a brief order, the justices said they had denied the "motion of Michigan for preliminary injunction."
The court's decision leaves it to the state and federal officials in Illinois to prevent the voracious Asian carp from reaching the Great Lakes.
The boating and shipping industries welcomed the decision. Michigan's attorney general, who was among those on the losing side, urged President Obama to step in and close the locks at the center of the dispute.
After Michigan filed its request before the high court, the justices were told that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers operates the locks between the rivers and Lake Michigan. For this reason, the U.S. Solicitor General Elena Kagan had urged the justices to reject Michigan's motion. She said Michigan should have sued the Army Corps, rather than the state of Illinois.
It appears the justices took her advice and steered clear of the dispute between Michigan and Illinois.
While the high court has rejected Michigan's request for a temporary injunction to close the locks, it could still issue a ruling on the broader aspects of Michigan's case, said a spokesman for the Natural Resources Defense Council.
Specifically, the Supreme Court could decide to rule on whether to reopen the 1922 case that created [URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL]'s Sanitary and Ship Canal and linked the Great Lakes to the Mississippi River. That ship canal is now the most direct route for Asian carp to enter Lake Michigan, a path biologists have referred to a "super highway" for invasive species.
Reacting to the court's decision, Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox released a statement this afternoon saying he was "extremely disappointed" in the ruling but optimistic that the court eventually will consider the merits of the case. Cox also called on President Obama act to use his executive powers to close the [URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL]-area locks to prevent the advance of Asian carp.
"I am extremely disappointed the Supreme Court did not push the pause button on this crisis until an effective plan is in place," Cox said in his statement. "While the injunction would have been an extraordinary step by the court, Michigan and the other Great Lakes states are facing an extraordinary crisis that could forever alter the Lakes, permanently killing thousands of jobs at a time when families can least afford it.
"President Obama said he would not tolerate new threats to the Great Lakes, yet he has left the front door to Lake Michigan wide open. Billions in economic activity and 800,000 Michigan jobs connected with the health of the Lakes are at risk. His indifference is just stunning."
[URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL]'s boating and shipping industries breathed a sigh of relief following the Supreme Court's decision. But they cautioned that the fight to keep the navigational locks open may not be over yet.
"We're pleased with the court's decision, but we know the nuts and bolts of the case are still to be decided," said Darren Melvin, a board member with the Illinois River Carriers Association. "The real issue is, is the threat (of carp) real? To date, regardless of what certain writers have said, the (Sanitary and Ship) canal is not infested with carp. That's just not accurate. In all this talk about the threat there hasn't been enough talk about solutions."
Melvin said industry officials believe the underwater electric barrier built near Lockport has worked as intended, and that they would be in favor of erecting more fish barriers downstate. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which operates the electric barrier, has looked at partnering with state agencies to build barriers that use sound or emit bubbles that could deter carp from advancing north toward Lake Michigan.
The Supreme Court's ruling comes at a time of growing concern about the Asian carp and its capacity to devastate the commercial fishing industry in the Great Lakes.
Last week, Sen. Dick Durbin hosted a roundtable discussion on the progress the state has made in defending Lake Michigan from the voracious fish. Durbin said Illinois officials were not in "denial" about the potential impact of the fish on the region, but that more needed to be done to track carp movement and strengthen the man-made barriers between the carp and the Great Lakes.
"There are no simple and easy solutions to this," Durbin said at a press briefing at the Shedd Aquarium last week. "Let's not meet in the courtroom; let's meet in the halls of Congress and come up with a real solution."
Michigan's attorney general sued Illinois in the U.S. Supreme Court in December, seeking the closing of navigational locks and dams in the [URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL] region to seal off Lake Michigan from Asian carp. Other Great Lakes states, including Minnesota, Ohio, Wisconsin and New York, have since joined Michigan's fight.
The announcement prompted a new round of criticism from Michigan officials, who say Illinois still has no clear plan to deal with this problem.
"It is distressing that inaction on the part of a state with only a few miles of shoreline is threatening the economy and ecology of Michigan and every other state in the Great Lakes basin," Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox said last week.
Boating and shipping operators who navigate [URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL]'s waterways said closing the locks, even temporarily, would be devastating to commerce and force haulers to find alternate ways to get their goods into consumers' hands.
In court filings earlier this month, the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, Metropolitan Water Reclamation District and Army Corps of Engineers urged the U.S. Supreme Court to deny a request by Michigan to shut the [URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL] and O'Brien locks in downtown [URL="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/neighborhoods.html?region=1435491"]Chicago[/URL] and south suburban Burnham to seal off a crucial access point for Asian carp into the Great Lakes.
While the Justice Department and Illinois attorney general largely argued against the legal merits of the suit, the water district expanded its defense by claiming Michigan lacked good science to support the idea that Asian carp would disrupt the lakes' fragile ecosystem. And they say Michigan has ignored previous reports showing the carp have existed in other parts of the Great Lakes for at least 15 years.
If carp are such a problem, the district said, wouldn't their impact have been obvious by now?
"We think that this issue about Asian carp destroying the ecology and the economy of the Great Lakes is just overblown and just fraught with a lot of emotion," water district Executive Director Dick Lanyon said.
 
You are in good company....this is the beast that's destroying the enviroment of our rivers in the north of Italy....it comes from Russia and eats everything, even the poor dog that is drinking water from the bank!!!

xavier1.jpg
 
Show me a fish not DNA evidence cited by some Notre Dame PhD. When Asian Carp start jumping into recreation boats on Lake Michigan then there's a problem. I'm just waiting until Al Gore get's into this one claiming Asian Carp flatulance contributes to global warming!:smt021
 
As a semi-fisherman, ecologist and environmental science major, I do think we have a very real problem.

Invasive species have been able to wreak havoc on the ecosystem of Lake Michigan in the last 10-15 years.

I think that the Asian Carp will be more so than all of the previous invasive species, only because of their size, breeding habits, voracious appetite and what they actually forage for.

The marine ecosystem in Lake Michigan/Great Lakes cannot sustain the Asian Carp.
Something drastic needs to be done and very soon.

I am not sure what it is, but I am sure that the electrical barrier will only work for a short period.

I do not advocate the closing of the locks but also I am not sure that that may be inevitable until this crisis is over.

Luckily, most of these "environmental disasters" have a way of sorting themselves out, through time.

The zebra mussels come to mind.
Fresh water sponges have made a remarkable comeback in Lake Michigan and they attach themselves to the zebra mussels and choke them out.
Do we still have a zebra mussel problem?
Yes but much less than most people worried about.

320 Bob

When Asian Carp start jumping into recreation boats on Lake Michigan then there's a problem.

Have you taken your boat down around Lake Peoria and further and seen the Asian Carp?
I have and it is not a pretty site.

Just my $0.02 worth today.


Dan

Note:I tried to edit and spell check for all on this site.
I did my best!!!
 
This sucks, plain and simple. They took to long to do something about it, and now the Great Lakes will be forever changed.
 
Send them to the Sacramento Delta, with all of the water Southern california is stealing from our delta all of the fish will be gone anyway! Well, not all....just fresh water fish. :smt009
 
Dan,
I still remain a skeptic. I remember in my high school and early college days, Lake Michigan was overrrun with Alwives (sp?) that would wash up dead on the beaches. I believe Lamprey were introduced to eat them and then the Lamprey became a problem. Then I believe there were the zebra mussels. The lake survived these invading species so what is to say, other than for their size, that it would not survive an Asian Carp invasion?

I will continue to take a somewhat contrarian position on this until facts convince me otherwise. Maybe if I am cruising down the Illinois River this summer and get smacked in the head by a 30 lb. carp I will move over into your camp.
 
320Bob, the Lamprey was not introduced on purpose, it was an accident and taxpayers will pay hard earned tax dollars indefinitely to keep them under control (but far from eradicated). Pacific Salmon (Coho and Chinook) were introduced to the G Lakes to control alewife and they did their job well and also sustained a sport fishery. They now spawn somewhat naturally in many areas. Maybe a small success story for introduced species. Asian carp on the other hand are a major problem because they chew up weed beds which are necessary for most fresh water game fish to spawn (bass, perch, pike, muskie). This is a pretty big issue. And while in some Asian countries people eat them, my understanding is that they are very bony and not very good to eat.
 
Bite the bullet now and close the locks. compensate all the business for essentially ruining them as well as the boat owners to move their boats - this will be a much cheaper option than waiting for carp to ruin our lake.

I like to see steelhead fly out of the water, preferably with my fly in its mouth, than a nasty carp.
 
If they have already got into the lake, isn't closing the lock kind of like closing the barn doors after the horse has gotten out??? Why did the CORP wait to release the info??
 
Bite the bullet now and close the locks. compensate all the business for essentially ruining them as well as the boat owners to move their boats - this will be a much cheaper option than waiting for carp to ruin our lake...

Compensating business means money out of our pockets either in the form of tax incentives that have to be paid for by us or increasing their cost of business which will be passed onto the consumer in the form of higher prices. This is what concerns me far more than any impact on recreational boating.
 
Bob and All on Board

I was listening to WGN Radio this morning and Greg Jarrett was talking to Charlie Potter who has the Outdoors Show on Sunday Morning discussing the Asian Carp situation.

He had some interesting views to say the least.
Anyway he is going to have Daniel N. Thomas (no relationship at all)
President of the Great Lakes Sports Fishing Council
http://www.great-lakes.org/officers.html
on his show this coming Sunday at 5 am.

I would hope all of us on or near the Great Lakes, especially those of on Lake Michigan and the adjoining rivers, get a chance to listen to this show or at least go to
www.wgnradio.com/shows/greatoutdoors/
and download the podcast of it.

Maybe it will help understand this situation a little bit better for the near term future.

Thanks
I'm down off my soap box now!

Dan
 
They are pretty bad where I boat, I have had one hop into our 320 cockpit. It scared the crap out of us because it completely surprised us. 5 years ago they were not an issue, now when we cruise through any area where depth changes expect them to be jumping. Some hit the side of the boat, others hit the bottom of the boat, often they land on the swim platform with a loud thud. The population becomes a problem pretty quickly.
 
I hope you were able to kill it before throwing it back in. This is really scary, as one of our favorite pastimes is running our boston whaler. The boys like to sit in the front and keep watch. One of these fish, entering a boat moving at 25 mph, could easily injure someone very badly, if not kill them.

Do people still run boats like Boston Whalers where you boat Skolbe? And if so, are people being injured by these fish?

I wasn't really prepared for it the first time it happened - my wife screamed and all I heard was this thud - quickly pulled the boat off plane and at this point it was getting blood all over the cockpit. I kicked it out of the cockpit - I now have a knife handy.

My in-laws have a 130 Sport Boston Whaler - they have not been hit in the head - but have had some land in the boat. It makes life jackets more relevant, not that they are not. People have been hurt. We often see folks in Jon Boats that use Bow's and shoot them. I have a 10' dinghy and have not had an issue yet.

I had anchored our boat and was moving the anchor - the water was probably 4' deep where the anchor was set - as I yanked the anchor by hand to move it slightly I had a carp hit me in the head - everyone got a chuckle out of that.

Most of the carp hop behind the boat while cruising.
 
Compensating business means money out of our pockets either in the form of tax incentives that have to be paid for by us or increasing their cost of business which will be passed onto the consumer in the form of higher prices. This is what concerns me far more than any impact on recreational boating.


Bob,

My point is it will be far cheaper to deal with this problem now, than wait until Lake Michigan is infested with carp. Can you imagine how expensive it would be if carp got into the lake - think 5, 10,15 years from now and the impact it would have on our fisheries, beaches, boating, marina's and all the ancillary businesses that support each activity.

Cheers,
Chris


Either way its
 
if obama cared so much about jobs for us he would do something,waiting for them to populate to the point they are jumping in boats is insane and way too late.
 
Maybe we can have the Coasties put that bow mounted .50 cal to some use!!!
 
Bob,

My point is it will be far cheaper to deal with this problem now, than wait until Lake Michigan is infested with carp. Can you imagine how expensive it would be if carp got into the lake - think 5, 10,15 years from now and the impact it would have on our fisheries, beaches, boating, marina's and all the ancillary businesses that support each activity.

Cheers,
Chris


Either way its

My issue is what is the cost to the industry you cite above versus the cost of rerouting Illinois Waterway shipping to truck or rail. I have not seen any estimates for either to make a reasonable judgement which is why I remain a skeptic. Show me the money and I would probably change my mind. However according to the NPR aricle, the way to "beat them, is eat them."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5542199
 
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My issue is what is the cost to the industry you cite above versus the cost of rerouting Illinois Waterway shipping to truck or rail. I have not seen any estimates for either to make a reasonable judgement which is why I remain a skeptic. Show me the money and I would probably change my mind. However according to the NPR aricle, the way to "beat them, is eat them."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5542199


Agree - No good solutions

Sushi anyone - yummy :thumbsup:
 

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