Anchor not holding - TOO much chain, anchor type?

J

jkim1990

Member
Sep 19, 2010
117
East Islip, NY
Boat Info
300 Sundancer
Kohler 5E
Engines
Twin 5.0 MPI w/ Bravo III
This has been GREAT forum, excellent source for information and saved a ton of $$ already. Thanks to all.

We have new to us 300 Sundancer with a properly sized Delta anchor and like many 300 owners, PO put all chain rode on to weigh down bow slightly.

Anchor regularly in 5' water with black, thick mud bottom, Connequot River, south shore of Long Island. With only my boat, anchor seems to hold fine but one small boat rafted up, anchor does not hold and we end up drifting slowly towards shore.

I have set anchors for years, point into wind, back down on the anchor and it grabs the boat initally.

Looking around, seems like Delta may not be right anchor for mud, many people around the area use flukes, someone suggested I might have too much chain which is pulling on anchor.

Anyway, throwing it out to the group. Any thoughts?
 
I have a delta 22 that I just got. I will see how that works out more this weekend. I spent one night out on a mud bottom river with no wind. I had a hell of a time getting it out. Because of that I put together a trip line. I think that deta 22 looks small, wich I take it that is what you have.
 
Jason, I saw your bump in the 300DA thread. We boat in similiar water. Shallow and muddy. Never had a problem setting my anchor with boats tied up to me on both sides. Maybe it is the all chain set up you have? Are you sure the anchor is OEM? Brian
 
You can never have enough chair. I have a 10kg claw anchor with 100 feet of chain and 100 feet of rope. In 5ft of water I would have 30 ft of chain out. You need 5 ft for every foot of water with chain plus the distance from the pulpit to the water. If you use a bridle on the chain it helps with the angle and takes all the pressure off the windlass.

Ken
Read this thread, best one on anchoring.
http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/26408-Anchoring-101?highlight=dmcb
 
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The more chain the better.
I use a Danforth (or Fluke type) anchor on my boat with no problems in the sandy/muddy bottom here on the south shore.
I see lots of newer Sea Rays seem to have the Delta anchors. Not sure if they were original equipment, but if so, maybe it was determined to be the best overall choice for a variety of situations.
That doesn't make it the absolute best choice for every type bottom.
I would keep the chain and change the anchor. That should help out.
 
Right, the chain is not hurting - it can only help. I agree with above that the likely scenario is not enough scope. The plow and fluke styles both are "burying" type anchors and do very well in soft bottoms. BUT, if there isn't enough scope, then it really never gets a chance to bury itself. Keep the anchor - let out more chain/rode.

Fluke-styles can be purchased considerably less than a plow style (especially if it's not a name brand such as Danforth). That could explain why you see them more than the plow.

I believe the main reason that a plow is used as most manufacturer's original equipment is simply because it fits into the anchor roller better. But, that's just my guess.
 
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The previous owner of my SR had bought a cheap anchor from Walmart that was "appropriate for the boat". That thing wouldn't hold for crap. Bought a nicer one that was actually a touch smaller but with more pointed forks. It has held myself and a raft of five more through a thunderstorm. I'm convinced it is the more pointed forks instead of the broader blades of the Walmart special.
 
I know that mud well. It is difficult to get the anchor to stick in it and it is not easy to get the mud off of when you pull it up. Try letting more chain out next time as others suggested and if that doesn't do it get an oversized fluke anchor.
 
Thanks to all for the feedback, link to more information and special shout out to the LI South Shore boaters.

I am going to try marking the chain to make 100% sure I have enough rode out and then if that doesn't do it, a big ol' fluke might be in my future.
 
We have that same exact, sticky, black mud in San Diego harbor. We average about 1 day on the hook per week. I have a delta style anchor, but only about 20 ft of chain on my rode. i sometime pop loose when its windy, but not often, because i dig the anchor in with the engines. My boating buddy (Kevin CSR member, Never Say Nevery 36 ft. bridge) has an all chain rode and he is rock solid. We rafted up with him yesterday on 7/4 and it was a madhouse - boat wake galore. Also had a decent wind, and we never came loose on his anchor only. On a side note, he decided to stay put and watch the fireworks at Coronado, and i headed back to the dock with 13 people expecting to see some fireworks in the main channel. There was a programming error and the entire firework show, yes, every single one went off in a single blast. It left about 50K people dissapointed. The owner of the firework company is not a happy guy, and promised to do the whole show again for free.
 
Oh... just to add a little more clarification to Ken's (Iprof) statement regarding scope (chain/rope:depth). He's on the right track and the general idea is that you typically put out more than you would think. But, to do it "by the book" is to mark your depth as the distance from your cleat to the bottom. The multiply that by the proper amount according to conditions (bottom type, wind, current, tide, etc). This is where the 3:1, 5:1, 7:1, etc comes into play. This is known as "scope".

Example: The distance from your cleat to the water is 5' and you're in 7' of water. That's 12' all together. In light conditions, 3:1 is generally considered the minimum. This would mean you would let out 36'. If the conditions warranted, or you had boats rafting to you, you would increase the scope to 4:1, 5:1 or maybe even more. In adverse conditions, you may be letting out as much as 100' or more (using the same example of being in 7' or water). This is all a very fluid "game" and there is no hard-n-fast rule as to how much to let out since there are so many variables that come in to play.

Generally speaking, if your anchor is starting to slip, the first thing to do is let out more line/chain to increase the scope. The more line you let out, the more the anchor will bury.

By the way, since chain helps the anchor set (and stay set) better, you can often cheat and end up using a lower scope than if you had all rope (or less chain). But again, this all depends on conditions.
 
Our boat is a little bigger we have 220 feet of chain and 350 rope. I tend to like min 3 to 1 but like 5 to 1 better. In 30 feet of water we would put out 150 feet of chain if the swing was OK. We drop anchor till it hits bottom then back away from it until we have let out required amount. Then I continue to back up at idle until the boat stops. The deepest we have ever anchored in is 100 feet and we only put out 200 feet but tied the stern to the shore. It was a sleepless night as the current in the bay with the tied caused logs to bump into the boat. If I am in 10 feet of water I will let out 100 feet as the chain is what keeps the anchor in place. We also push the man over board where we drop anchor and where the chain is tight on the navigation system. This way we can see if we move. A hand held GPS has a similar feature. I would find 5 feet of water too shallow for comfort but you do not have tied
 
northern said:
The deepest we have ever anchored in is 100 feet and we only put out 200 feet but tied the stern to the shore. It was a sleepless night as the current in the bay with the tied caused logs to bump into the boat.
Click to expand...
That is some deep water. In southern cal, the continental shelve slopes gradually down in most areas, except in certain areas adjacent to hilly topography on shore - plate tectonics. Even when i was a deckhand on sport fishing boats as a young guy many years ago, i dont recall ever setting the hook in more than 75 ft of water, and that was a heavy, 65 ft steel vessel full of 50 people, and a good size anchor with big steel links. I had to wrestle that beast back on board when the trip wire broke, and I am 175 lbs soaking wet. These days, I am only anchoring inside the bay, but would like to spend some hook time outside, in the actual ocean. I suppose I'll need a heck of a lot more than the 25 ft of chain I have to do that.
 
jkim1990 said:
Thanks to all for the feedback, link to more information and special shout out to the LI South Shore boaters.

I am going to try marking the chain to make 100% sure I have enough rode out and then if that doesn't do it, a big ol' fluke might be in my future.
Click to expand...

Jason, I am curious about how you plan to mark your chain. What is the best way to do that?
 
MOJO 1 said:
Jason, I am curious about how you plan to mark your chain. What is the best way to do that?
Click to expand...

Mojo - did some googling and seems like best is to paint with rustoleum every X feet. I rent bulkhead behind private house and could not see off loading the chain to paint in the grass. Will make a good off-season project. Second way I saw was to use colored zip ties (without trimming ends).

I did a quick test today to make sure no issues with the windlass and zip ties seemed to turn right through, no problem, just as I read in some foums. Going to install a full set next weekend.

Anybody else use something else on chain rode? How many 300 owners have full chain rode?
 
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I bought a 'digger' anchor. It states to NOT use chain on it. It is simply AMAZING.

Once its set.. its not moving... at all..

I use it here on the St Lawrence where it varies mud / clay / rocks / weeds and the anchor holds thru them all. (better in mud)

When unanchoring, the anchor has a feature that it releases itself and goes 'limp' by the time I have it on the boat the weeds and most of the sticky mud have already fallen off.

http://diggeranchor.com/
 
jkim1990 said:
This has been GREAT forum, excellent source for information and saved a ton of $$ already. Thanks to all.

We have new to us 300 Sundancer with a properly sized Delta anchor and like many 300 owners, PO put all chain rode on to weigh down bow slightly.

Anchor regularly in 5' water with black, thick mud bottom, Connequot River, south shore of Long Island. With only my boat, anchor seems to hold fine but one small boat rafted up, anchor does not hold and we end up drifting slowly towards shore.

I have set anchors for years, point into wind, back down on the anchor and it grabs the boat initally.

Looking around, seems like Delta may not be right anchor for mud, many people around the area use flukes, someone suggested I might have too much chain which is pulling on anchor.

Anyway, throwing it out to the group. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


I have a delta plow anchor with 30' of chain and then 170' of line. Havent had much trouble and we are mostly mud here in the Chesapeake where I am.

USCG safety course reccomends 7-10' of rode out for every 1 foot of depth. I typically go with 5' out for every foot down unless there's a strong wind or I have a lot of boats rafted off me. In most places I anchor/raft, there's just not enough space for that 7-10 foot ratio and all the swing you get with boats in proximity. Much to my suprise, I had a 58' sedan bridge and a 27' dancer raft onto me and the anchor held, held up better than my nerves did! Typically we raft off the 58' anchor and all chain rode, but his windlass was malfunctioning.

I have thought of going all chain to add some weight to the bow, but haven't made the investment yet. make sure you get a snubber to take the pressure off the windlass if you have all chain.

James
 
I use a Fortess FX11 and have no probs setting it ....it doesn't want to come out of the mud
I set it on the 45 degree with about 10' of chain
 
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