Anchor Chain

[Russ Calasant]

I have a Lofrans windlass (motor below deck) that came with the boat. It has a short length of chain attached to line. I changed the plow anchor to a stainless plow and bought a 8' piece of stainless chain to replace the galvanized. Little did I know, not all chain is created equal. It is close in size but not close enough, it does not quite fit the windlass. The only markings I can find on the windlass is a No.21808 and a G4 on the chain link itself. From what I can see it appears to be 5/16" after measuring but 1/4" is so close in spec that I cant be positive. I assume It would be the larger. Has anyone had any experience? Also when it comes to length, I am confused. I thought of replacing all the line with chain but am told that it is not favorable due to the weight vs. advantage of chain over the rope line. So instead of 150' I am thinking maybe 25'. I only anchor in calm shallow waters, usually no deeper than 15' - when I have a choice. Thoughts? Input? :huh:

Also it is expensive, I only want to buy once(again), has anyone found a good place to purchase? I found this on-line but am suspicious due tothe fact it seems much less$ than the rest. www.stainlesschains.net/

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Henry Boyd]

Contact Imtra (Imtra.com). They are the US distributor of Lofrans. You might want to call them directly. They are in New Bedford Mass. The phone number and address are at the bottom of their home page. The customer service people are great and can tell you exactly what will work best with your windlass.

There are many different sizes of the same 'size' chain, so getting exactly the right one is critical. Think of it in the context trying to mesh two gears with different size teeth!

Henry

 

[wakeup 19]

Try River Marine Supply in Miami. I bought 65' of Galvy and attached it to existing chain. I wouldn't buy Stainless Chain. $1.69 / foot I believe. I would but at least that much so you don't have to deal with Line.

 

[compensation]

One thing you might consider is using 100-150' of chain. This way, you don't have the weight of all chain, but you get the benefit of all chain in your normal anchoring conditions. 150' of chain spliced to 200' of three-strand Nylon would be an awesome setup.

 

[Russ Calasant]

Thanks Henry, I will try that. Wakeup, I kind of wanted to go with stainles to match the anchor, also did not want to dissimmilar metals together or have a weak link joining stainless and galvanized. All - thanks for the info:thumbsup:

 

[Nehalennia]

Also, keep in mind that even though your plan is to only anchor in calm conditions in protected bays, that may not be the case if you ever have an issue and need to throw the hook for saftey. Get at least 2x times the length of your boat in the proper chain for your windlass but even the above 150' of it + the rode would be great.

 

[Russ Calasant]

Also, keep in mind that even though your plan is to only anchor in calm conditions in protected bays, that may not be the case if you ever have an issue and need to throw the hook for saftey. Get at least 2x times the length of your boat in the proper chain for your windlass but even the above 150' of it + the rode would be great.

Absolutely! - thats why I said "when I have a choice" allowing of course for mother nature!

Good advice,thanks :grin:

 

[Jackie J V]

Even if your anchoring in only 15', you need 105' of rode (7x). You also don't need to concern yourself with the dissimilar metals issue. Every boat I've ever seen with a stainless anchor, has had galvanized chain (including each of the five boats I've owned).

 

[Russ Calasant]

Even if your anchoring in only 15', you need 105' of rode (7x). You also don't need to concern yourself with the dissimilar metals issue. Every boat I've ever seen with a stainless anchor, has had galvanized chain (including each of the five boats I've owned).

Good to know, thank you

 

[Asureyez]

The Windlass Gypsy (the part that grabs the chain links) is stamped on the face of each link cups with the size of the link needed to work correctly. The issue is the length of the link and not just the diameter of the link.

Stainless chain is not always made avail in each link profile. Your old link was probably 1/4 inch or perhaps 5/16ths. The link difference is substaintial. I would take the old chain to the store and match it. You can replace the gypsy to fit the chain you want to use. Older boats and Sail Boats have a link called BBB and is a shorter link on 3/8 diameter. HT 5/16 and BBB will usually work on the same gypsy. 1/4 and 3/8 chains will need their own gypsy. Often after fit winlasses purchased used will cause owners a little chasing about to match chain to older gypsy's.

Not knowing your waters, I'll say this. An all chian rode on a Delta or plow anchor in South Florida means a peacfull night on an all chain rode.

Weight is about 1# per foot. So swaping chain for nylon on 150 ft of all chain would add about 125# of bow weight. In designing the ground tackle system for you need to take the following in to consideration.

Bow Weight

Add in deck height off the water to your typical anchor depths to determine needed scope for all chain. Quick stops and gentle conditions 3X, Heavy wind 5X, Hurricain 7X. A deck height of 5 ft. Plus say 15ft. typical anchorage depth is 20 ft. X 5 or 100ft of chain.

I typically anchor in 15ft. Deck is 5 ft. off the water. Icarry 300 ft of 5/16 High Tensile galvanized chain. I can consider safely anchoring in 50-60 ft @ 5X scope. I do a lot of rafting and can quickly have another 50K -100K pounds of boats hanging on my hook, so I deploy extra scope.

In your case for a 37 footer, you could have made up a 150Ft nylon rode made up with thimble and proper swivel and shackles installed. Stowed in the locker at the ready to attach to your 100+ ft of chain if you needed more scope. It would make a very nice rig. The nylon rode could also be deployed for a stern anchor when desired.

 

[Russ Calasant]

The Windlass Gypsy (the part that grabs the chain links) is stamped on the face of each link cups with the size of the link needed to work correctly. The issue is the length of the link and not just the diameter of the link.

Stainless chain is not always made avail in each link profile. Your old link was probably 1/4 inch or perhaps 5/16ths. The link difference is substaintial. I would take the old chain to the store and match it. You can replace the gypsy to fit the chain you want to use. Older boats and Sail Boats have a link called BBB and is a shorter link on 3/8 diameter. HT 5/16 and BBB will usually work on the same gypsy. 1/4 and 3/8 chains will need their own gypsy. Often after fit winlasses purchased used will cause owners a little chasing about to match chain to older gypsy's.

Not knowing your waters, I'll say this. An all chian rode on a Delta or plow anchor in South Florida means a peacfull night on an all chain rode.

Weight is about 1# per foot. So swaping chain for nylon on 150 ft of all chain would add about 125# of bow weight. In designing the ground tackle system for you need to take the following in to consideration.

Bow Weight

Add in deck height off the water to your typical anchor depths to determine needed scope for all chain. Quick stops and gentle conditions 3X, Heavy wind 5X, Hurricain 7X. A deck height of 5 ft. Plus say 15ft. typical anchorage depth is 20 ft. X 5 or 100ft of chain.

I typically anchor in 15ft. Deck is 5 ft. off the water. Icarry 300 ft of 5/16 High Tensile galvanized chain. I can consider safely anchoring in 50-60 ft @ 5X scope. I do a lot of rafting and can quickly have another 50K -100K pounds of boats hanging on my hook, so I deploy extra scope.

In your case for a 37 footer, you could have made up a 150Ft nylon rode made up with thimble and proper swivel and shackles installed. Stowed in the locker at the ready to attach to your 100+ ft of chain if you needed more scope. It would make a very nice rig. The nylon rode could also be deployed for a stern anchor when desired.

Very helpful, thank you. The initial few feet I would like to be stainless (too much$ for all) and then galv. So I am thinking that if I purchase the same size, cut and weld the link together for a total of a 100' or so and then purchase the correct gypsy or bring it with me to get the proper size (its not stamped) that it should work well. :huh:

 

[Henry Boyd]

I had a similar discussion with Imtra a couple years ago about welding chain together. They felt that the tolerances were too tight for that to work. There are also some technical issues as well welding galvanized metal (zinc oxide good on nose, bad in nose). I've got some precision welding experience, and while it is do-able it would take a pretty talented guy and still require some experimentation.

I think the only way to join two pieces of chain so it that would go through a gypsy without jamming and/or damaging it would be to use a piece of rope spliced between the two chains. I'm not suggesting it, just saying that it seems like the only way to ensure that any differences in the spacing created by the joint would work out.

Henry

 

[Russ Calasant]

I had a similar discussion with Imtra a couple years ago about welding chain together. They felt that the tolerances were too tight for that to work. There are also some technical issues as well welding galvanized metal (zinc oxide good on nose, bad in nose). I've got some precision welding experience, and while it is do-able it would take a pretty talented guy and still require some experimentation.

I think the only way to join two pieces of chain so it that would go through a gypsy without jamming and/or damaging it would be to use a piece of rope spliced between the two chains. I'm not suggesting it, just saying that it seems like the only way to ensure that any differences in the spacing created by the joint would work out.

Henry

Hmmm, interesting, I am no welder but what about welding stainless? I have a friend that owns a very large machine/manufacturing facility an when I told him what I wanted to do he said it was no problem :huh:

I cant believe that there is no easy solution to this. I guess i could just connect the galvanized to the stainless anchor, it just looks so much better with stainless chain. I would like to go all stainless, 100 feet or so, then line but its $1k+. Ideally I could go 6 or 10 feet stainless, 90 feet galv, 100' line and have it all go through the windlass. Not easy :smt021

 

[Hampton]

I happened to measure my anchor chain today in preparation of adding some length. We had one id10t run over a friend's line last year and send him to the beach. Others frequently pass too close to see what's going on. I want them to see chain, or hit it if they want to push the limits.

My links are made of 5/16" galv'd. metal. They are 1 3/4" long. They are 1 1/8" across. The distance between two links in the chain is 1/2" at the closest. My windlass is a Lofrans 1000 low profile. I think I'm going to add about 75'. This should make about 90' of chain in 15' of water - to the surface - then another 30 or 40 feet of line to the boat - above the surface. If someone runs over my rode, it'll hurt their gear. My goal is not deception, it's minimum weight with maximum anchoring strength and min cost.

Additionally, chain rodes droop lower in the water and provide more clearance for sophomore boaters passing by. I also believe that, though chain rodes hold the boat more firmly, they also allow more flex as high winds begin to stretch out a heavy, chain rode. Rope rodes are already straight, (thus poorer anchoring) though the line may stretch a little in higher winds. Heavy chain rodes arc to the boat and can be straightened out in high winds. The reason this is critical is that we back in to the beach at exactly the correct location. Moving forward and back are not to be done randomly as winds change.

 

[Stray Cat]

I'm not certain how long the Project 1000 has been used in the S/R line up....the line size for the Project 1000 verticle low profile is 9/16 dia. and the chain link is 5/16 HT (high test chain is also embossed with G4)

Chain used on a windlass is rated either with High Test (highest strength to weight ratio, which permits weight reduction by using smaller diameter links) Also BBB (embossed with 3B on the link) is sometimes used, however the working load is reduced by 50%. example: 5/16 HT has a working load of 3900 lbs. The same diameter BBB rated chain has a working load of 1900 lbs

 

[Henry Boyd]

Hmmm, interesting, I am no welder but what about welding stainless? I have a friend that owns a very large machine/manufacturing facility an when I told him what I wanted to do he said it was no problem :huh:

I cant believe that there is no easy solution to this. I guess i could just connect the galvanized to the stainless anchor, it just looks so much better with stainless chain. I would like to go all stainless, 100 feet or so, then line but its $1k+. Ideally I could go 6 or 10 feet stainless, 90 feet galv, 100' line and have it all go through the windlass. Not easy :smt021

Stainless welding requires a TIG set up. No big deal, but a different skill set from from production MIG welding.

Sure welding a chain link is no problem. Because normally a chain link has no tolerances and you are just after strength, many people think it is ok. The issue is not welding a link that is as strong as the original, the issue is welding a link that is dimensionally identical to the original. That includes no weld bead - anywhere The chain meshes in the gypsy just like two gears mesh. It must be precise, if not the gypsy is damaged, and the rode jams.

But hey, Lofran's gypsies run from $ 200 to about $ 600, its probably worth the risk to try to let your friend experiment.

Henry

 

[rcknecht]

I have welded Stainless steel without a TIG or MIG set up... I just use a stainless steel rod... IMO the easiest rod to weld with...

That said, why don't you just use a smash link?

I used a smash link I bought in WM for $5.00 to attach additional '75 of 5/16" chain to my rode...

Stainless welding requires a TIG set up. No big deal, but a different skill set from from production MIG welding.

Sure welding a chain link is no problem. Because normally a chain link has no tolerances and you are just after strength, many people think it is ok. The issue is not welding a link that is as strong as the original, the issue is welding a link that is dimensionally identical to the original. That includes no weld bead - anywhere The chain meshes in the gypsy just like two gears mesh. It must be precise, if not the gypsy is damaged, and the rode jams.

But hey, Lofran's gypsies run from $ 200 to about $ 600, its probably worth the risk to try to let your friend experiment.

Henry

 

[Lazy Daze]

I have welded Stainless steel without a TIG or MIG set up... I just use a stainless steel rod... IMO the easiest rod to weld with...

That said, why don't you just use a smash link?

I used a smash link I bought in WM for $5.00 to attach additional '75 of 5/16" chain to my rode...

Double check me on this, Rod, but I think your boat's chain is G4 (Grade 43 HT)? If so, I think that connecting link has about half the working load as your chain. IIRC, connecting links are about equal to BBB chain. Again, please double check - I'm just going from memory.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I didn't say it was hard to weld, I said it was hard to weld accurately so that the finished chain will not grind the gypsy to bits.

Given the choice of using TIG, MIG or stick in a precision weld where excess bead would have to be minimized and removed, I would choose TIG as the amount of filler wire consumed can be carefully controlled. In the right circumstances filler wire can even be avoided, MIG and stick welding on the other hand must deposit filler metal because that is how the electric circuit is created.

As for using a smash link, you still have the same odd sized link to cause problems and have just degraded the safe working load of your anchor rode by several thousand pounds.

In any event, mixing stainless chain and galvanized chain is a waste of effort. Unless it is all completely dry when it goes into the locker, the wet stainless will sit on top of the wet galvanized and the galvanic corrosion will keep on cooking.

Henry

 

[Russ Calasant]

I happened to measure my anchor chain today in preparation of adding some length. We had one id10t run over a friend's line last year and send him to the beach. Others frequently pass too close to see what's going on. I want them to see chain, or hit it if they want to push the limits.

My links are made of 5/16" galv'd. metal. They are 1 3/4" long. They are 1 1/8" across. The distance between two links in the chain is 1/2" at the closest. My windlass is a Lofrans 1000 low profile. I think I'm going to add about 75'. This should make about 90' of chain in 15' of water - to the surface - then another 30 or 40 feet of line to the boat - above the surface. If someone runs over my rode, it'll hurt their gear. My goal is not deception, it's minimum weight with maximum anchoring strength and min cost.

Additionally, chain rodes droop lower in the water and provide more clearance for sophomore boaters passing by. I also believe that, though chain rodes hold the boat more firmly, they also allow more flex as high winds begin to stretch out a heavy, chain rode. Rope rodes are already straight, (thus poorer anchoring) though the line may stretch a little in higher winds. Heavy chain rodes arc to the boat and can be straightened out in high winds. The reason this is critical is that we back in to the beach at exactly the correct location. Moving forward and back are not to be done randomly as winds change.

My existing chain is the same size and also has a "G4" stamped on it. I am not sre of the Lofrans model but it is low profile. How do you plan to attach the chain?