Adding multiple amps and speakers to my 96 500 DA ideas and ?'s

[Steve500dancer]

One of my many projects that are underway this winter is adding Amplifiers, speakers and Subs to my cockpit and swim platform.

Here is what I started with in the cockpit:
Clarion CDM6 head unit (new last year)
Concept CA 664 amp 5 channel (sounds pretty darn good)
4 Sony speakers (new last season)
1 x 10" factory sub (older then my mother)

Here is my new plan:
Clarion CDM6 head unit
JL audio 5 channel XD 700/5
pushing
4 X Alpine SPS- M600 6 1/2" speakers
2 JL Audio MX10IB3 10" subs

Concept CA 664 amp
Pushing
4 X Alpine SPS- M600 6 1/2" speakers

JL Audio 4 Channel JX 360/4
Pushing
4 X Sony XS-MP1611 6 1/2" on swim platform
Controlled with a separate volume control

Here is the way I plan on hooking things up:
Head unit to JL Audio 700/5 pre out to JL Audio 360/4 pre out to Concept CA 664

I have already run most of the speaker wire and installed 8 of the 12 speakers as well as installed 1 of the subs. I used 14 Awg wire for all the speakers. I still have to cut one more sub hole and the 4 holes on the back for the 4 Sony speakers in the transom.

Here are my questions
1-Should I run 0 or 4 Awg power and ground directly from the battery to a power block distribution block and then to the amps? It is about 30' from the house batteries to under the dash where the amps are going to be installed. Not even real sure where to bring the wires up from just yet. I have a feeling it is going to be a real pain in the butt.

2-Am I better off to eliminate the concept amp and bridge the 8 alpine speakers off the JL audio 700/5

Does anyone have any advice to offer.


Steve

 

[HIFI]

Wise to use 0 awg for your battery run. You will need to fuse this main run 18" from positive battery post.
4 awg from distribution block to each amp.

Stay away from cheap distribution blocks.

Use the concept amp or replace it now while you are deep into instalation. If concept is poor quality . . . replace.

It sounds like you are "series" connecting your amps . . .all the more reason to match quality in the amp trio.

I recommend against your thought of bridging 8 Alpines to the one amp. You may find you need some power management with each pair of speakers and bridging 8 eliminates the idea.

14 gauge wire is thin and may not be up to your duty . . . take a look at that.

You may want to consider a line driver to lift the preamp signal from head unit. This is important for the long rca runs from headunit to amps that are typical in boats installations. I would use a line driver for short runs and multiple amps. Visit audiocontrol.com and check out Audio Control Overdive.

Have fun . . .

 

[HUMPH]

Jeez Steve, enough projects already!

 

[ttmott]

You might also want to put switches in the amp trigger wires. That way you can zone the sound system (ie listen in the cabin and have the cockpit silent or any combi. Also I would run 1/0 from the bat disconnect to the amp powers and head power and head memory from the bat side of the disconnect. A better solution is there should be at least one unused breaker space in the main disconnect panel for a amp/head breaker rather than fuse. The orig audio head should have had a memory breaker and probably reuse that circuit rather than new.

Oh, and make sure you run tinned main power leads from the power sources if outside of the cabin, otherwise corrosion will be a problem sooner or later. And, with such power demanding components get the grounds back to the batteries..

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

Steve,

let em ask a couple of questions 1st. Where will the 2 subs be located?

Total of 12 in-boats, correct?

If im reading correctly, your plan is to leave the sub chnl 5 of the Concept unused?

Give me a little detail about the zone control you want? Daisy-chaining the RCA will not allow for zone control.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Gary Hill]

Pay attention to the resistance (ohms) you are putting on each channel. Most amp units have a specific range for the ohms on each channel. Depending on how you are wiring the speakers, paralell or series, will change the ohms to the unit. The way you are describing above, I would think you are OK but check it.

Gary

 

[Steve500dancer]

Steve,

let em ask a couple of questions 1st. Where will the 2 subs be located?

Total of 12 in-boats, correct?

If im reading correctly, your plan is to leave the sub chnl 5 of the Concept unused?

Give me a little detail about the zone control you want? Daisy-chaining the RCA will not allow for zone control.

Thanks,
Mike[/QUOT

This has been great advice so far. I will try and answer all the questions and I added several pictures.yes I know the boat is a mess I have a lot of stuff going on this winter.

1-I have 8 speakers inside the cockpit area along with 2 X 10" subs

2-4 speakers going out from transom so I can here it when I am in the water without having to blast the entire system

2-cabin is a separate home sound system (Denon) amp

3-thought about putting both subs on the JL audio 5 channel but could certainly do one off the JL and one off the Concept

4-concept amp is a little older but surprisingly great sounding with little distortion with the Alpine speakers.

5-the reason I am using the concept at the end of the daisy chain is that it does not have pre outs and both JL Audios do.

6-the reason I am using the JL Audio 360/4 on the swim platform speakers is I have a separate volume control that plugs directly in the JL audio amp with a eathernet like cable that will only control that amp. The concept does not have that ability.

7-the speaker recommended wire was 14-18 Awg so I went with the good 14 Awg.

8-I will tell you this...The 1 awg wire sure is not cheap especially needing 40' of power and ground

Steve

 

[skolbe]

Am I the only one that would not buy a boat with speakers installed in the transom? For whatever reason I just don't like it. I also don't like Raisins... That being said it is your boat, so not judging the decision. Just curious if that is my own thing or if others feel the same way.

 

[HIFI]

Am I the only one that would not buy a boat with speakers installed in the transom? For whatever reason I just don't like it. I also don't like Raisins... That being said it is your boat, so not judging the decision. Just curious if that is my own thing or if others feel the same way.

Listening to music off the back and in the water is important for many as that is where much of one’s time is spent. I am with you and would not mount them on transom for many reasons. First and most important for me is the sound projection. The mounting location usually means speakers are pointed up, not horizontal or better yet down to audience. Therefore they can never sound decent while I am in water. I would pick another location to project stereo sound for in water listening.

I would suggest mounting two/four drivers facing aft and projecting down to audience. It is also recomended these speakers need to be close together so they can project together and not independent.

 

[searay40dad]

I'd agree on the transom mounted speakers. That makes me cringe but to each his own. I prefer to keep the factory look as much as possible, i.e. not cutting new holes. Perhaps a set of box or tube speakers could be attached to the arch without looking too Rinker-ish. I have 2 sets of Bose box speakers for the purpose of while- in-water entertainment but to be honest the JL system in my bridge sounds 100 times cleaner so I just fade the Bose out most of the time. Hifi has been doing this along time and always has great advice, listen to him closely.

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

1) I would be OK with running all 8 of those cockpit speakers on the 4 full-range chnls of the JL700/5. Its a full-range Class-D, so heat will not be an issue with all chnls running at 2 ohm. This will make it far easier to gain match those 8 speakers, as supposed to driving them with 2 different amp. They will need to be gained the same, because they are all contributing to the same basic space.

2) it looks like you will need at least 2 zones for the cockpit/aft deck area. 1 being the 8 main area speakers if you also use the option level control on the 700/5, and the 2nd being the swim platform. The sub volume could be a 3rd zone if you wanted, or you can just leave it tied to the 8 in the main cabin. if you wanted the subs as a 3rd zone you may need to go with a different form of level control, such as the Kicker ZXM-RLC for the 700/5 or use a simple RCA line level POT in line on the sub RCA's. The Kicker zone controller only needs a single RCA pair for dual zone control, so no splitting RCA's and its a 9V line driver.

3) With both proposed subs contributing to the cockpit/aft deck, I would wire them both to the JL's sub chnl. This has them working as a single unit and will divide the power equally. The location of the proposed sub causes me a little pause. Although they look to both be firing the same direction, the current sub will be about 2ft in front of it. This may create some timing issues. Is there a spot around by the helm seating for that 2nd sub? This gets some isolation between them.

4) I think you can do without the Concept

5) leaving off the Concept or going with a zone control/line driver type peripheral, would make this a non-issue. But, i think the JL level controller will effect the level of the pass-through, but with it at the end of the line, those 4 speakers driven by it would still be playing at head-unit level, while the 4 driven off the 700/5 were lowered.

7) 14ga for your speakers and subs will be fine.

8) with the expected distance, 1/0ga will be the way to go for the trunk line, with a 120W marine breaker at the source. At quick glance, it looks like those JL's do not have internal fusing, so you would need a fused distribution block for the B+ and a non-fused block for the GND. Short runs of 4ga to each amp on both the B+ and GND side. The amps GND trunk line needs to connect directly to your battery's ground post. The B+ needs to be connected to a source that insures the entire audio system is sharing the same battery reference voltage and that that battery bank is receiving a charge from the alternator(s) while the boat is running. I would do my best to keep those trunk runs as short and direct as the boat construction will allow.

 

[skolbe]

My dock neighbors mounted outdoor speakers in the transom locker that are epoxy glued on brackets and they are great for anchoring and listening to music on the water. I appreciate nice audio, but also appreciate the transom and since these boats last longer than the speakers. I am concerned about the long term look of the speakers.

 

[Steve500dancer]

I added 2 boss speakers on my 01 340 transom a year or so before i sold it and they were fantastic. We spend the majority of our time in the water floating, drinking and yacking, while the girls are all tied together on thei raft talking about how stupid us guys are and all the stupid stuff we do

You also have to remember that my transom on my 500 sits at least a couple of feet out of the water.

Not mush chance of them causing an issue with water intrusion. The arch on the 500 is also pretty low compared to most. I would be smashing my head on speakers mounted under the arch.

I also think at this point it may be a good idea to call in an expert in to finish this install. I have run most of the speakers wires and fished all the wires through the arch. Swapped out all the Sony speakers for Alpine. I am also going to send him these threads to read so that he knows what I want.

Hell, it's not like I don't have enough stuff to finish up on the boat anyway. I have shower doors going in this Saturday, lights to install, plumbing fixtures to replace and so on and so on and so on.

Steve

 

[DustinL]

Steve I feel your pain and excitment on the audio as I did this a year ago on my 350....Might I suggest looking into Wet Sounds and some of the pods they have created for your arch. A lot of sound in a small space. Just a thought. I don't want to bash my head or have anything in the way either but they make some pretty interesting stuff worth looking into.

 

[ZZ13]

I have had a crazy idea for a while about whether hinged arch speakers would work out. That is, mount the speakers to a custom hinged ring so that the speakers are normally sitting in the arch, but can be swung out 90 degrees for the times you want to shoot sound out the back of the boat. Then I decided it was silly, but this thread got me thinking about it again.

 

[HIFI]

Steve, having some speakers hanging from your arch may work for you. The two or four drivers need to be placed close together. If they are in the middle of arch and one foot apart they should be out of heads way. I would also run in mono if it were my job/boat.

For the listening application we are discussing it would be a "sound" mistake to have speakers hanging from the arch that are more than a couple feet apart, unless it is mono or summed mono.

 

[tdschafer]

Steve,

What about some wake tower speakers mounted IN your transom locker? Maybe some sort of quick release mount with a knob or something. This way when you're in the water you can pop open the transome locker and viola- Speakers!! Then if you need access to the "junk in the trunk" you just unscrew them from the mounts, OR mount them on the inside of the transom locker door so that when you open it they are facing rear & ready to roar!! Just another thought.

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

The one down side to arch mounted tower pods is that they would nullify the zone volume control that Steve is shooting for. Anyone seated in the aft lounge area will feel the full effect of the speakers projecting to those out behind the boat in the water.

 

[HIFI]

The one down side to arch mounted tower pods is that they would nullify the zone volume control that Steve is shooting for. Anyone seated in the aft lounge area will feel the full effect of the speakers projecting to those out behind the boat in the water.

Which now leaves him with the only choice of mounting some drivers on or aft transom. I simply have not seen or thought of anything that would be acceptable to me. What do you recommend?

 

[Bucit]

How about mounting some rod holders on the transom rail and then mount a pair of speakers (or box) to a rod that could be placed in the rod holder. Have quick dis-connect wires there to plug in the speakers? This way they are removable but would serve the purpose of getting music out into the water.