A scary night on the water last night...

[Gofirstclass]

I can see from the comments you all have posted that I should have taken more time to explain where everyone was at the sequence in this mess. So to help clear up some of the confusion I have posted a screen shot of the area from Google Earth as well as some additional information I posted on another boating forum to answer some of their questions. First, the picture and some further explanation of the situation.....



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On this pic, our course is shown in red and at point "D" is about where I spotted the sailboat. His course is shown in yellow and he was about at point "A". This was also the time when I pointed him out (visually and on the radar screen) to my wife. She had been helping me to spot any other boat traffic.

We both watched his progress as he sailed to "B" where he changed course to parallel the shore, changing to aporoximately a reciprocal of our course. At about point "C" we stopped watching him closely and resumed watching for other traffic.

At some point after "C", he changed his course to one perpendicular to our course. About this time I had turned the helm over to my wife and was answering a question the passenger asked, keeping one eye ahead and one eye on the passenger.

As we continued on I turned to check for other boats and spotted his green nav light and saw him approaching. I pointed out the sailboat's approaching course to her and told her to go into reverse.

She did and brought the boat to a quick stop. We stood there in surprise as the sailboat passed close off our bow.

That the sailboat took a course to cross our bow was what I figured was a bonehead move.

I read most of the comments posted above and I'm not going to address them all on here. I will speak to a couple of them....
--a well lit boat reduces your night vision. Not on my boat. The interior cabin/salon on the lower level was well lighted. The only lights on the fly bridge that could have an affect on my night vision were the red helm lights (dimmed as low as possible) and the radar/GPS screen which as also dimmed.
--narrow channel. Nope, not in that area. The channel is over 1/4 mile across and the entire width is navigable in that area.
--stick your head out into the night air to check. We were in the night air. All forward facing windows were rolled up. Our night vision was not impeded at all.

Someone made the point that I turned control over to my wife who they supposed (assumed?) was not qualified. Wrong on that point. She is qualified and often skippers the boat, including backing it into the slip.

Ted, re the inconsistencies in my posts, when I said she didn't see the sailboat I should have clarified that she didn't see that it had made the course correction to cross our boat. She was aware of it from when I first pointed it out to her. My bad for not being more explicit in my postings.

I realize that every situation like this allows wide latitude for 20/20 hindsight and quarterbacking. I'm as guilty of that as most. Applying my own 20/20 quarterbacking to this, there are things I could/should have done better. I could have--
--retained control of the helm
--not answered the question my passenger asked
--kept closer track of the sailboat's course and progress

I hope this post has clarified some of the misunderstandings that came from my postings.

Fire away.

 

[Gofirstclass]

And now some additional comments from that other forum.....

"
I saw the sailboat, saw his white mast head light and his red nav light (at point "A") and as he traveled from A to B and then to C. Given that his white light was so high, I made the determination that he was a sailboat, even though at "B" I couldn't see the boat yet. I could only see his nav lights and see his image on the radar screen.


When I said earlier that he was the stand on vessel, I was referring to the fact that he was a sailboat. Stupid me, I should have memorized that COLREGS section so I would have known, given his white mast head light that he was a sailboat under power. Or, I could have pulled out my handy dandy copy of the Nav Rules, searched for the proper section to see who truly was correctly lit and who truly was the stand on vessel. Silly me.


Instead, I took evasive action to avoid a collision and we all were the better for it that night. Someone mentioned the 5 blasts of the horn and a few choice words. Had we not had a boat full of women I most certainly would have unloaded verbally on him. Discretion is the better part of valor so I chose not to turn the ears of the ladies on board to a bright red color. Had it been a boat load of guys on board I probably would have done that and they probably would have joined me in verbally abusing the sailboater.


The old saying "All's well that ends well" certainly applies here. None of my guests had to get involved with a night time rescue, everyone when home safe and in good spirits and, ultimately, that was the intended goal of our night cruise."

 

[Gofirstclass]

When we spotted the sailboat at "A" and followed his track from A to B to C, I knew from the height of his mast light that it was a sailboat.

It's my understanding of the COLREGS that in a situation where two vessels are approaching as we were when we were on reciprocal courses, that he was the stand on vessel because he was a vessel under sail. At that point, he is obligated to stand on, not alter his course to pass in front of us as he did. The stiff wind that was blowing was out of the SSW. When he was on the course parallel to the shore he was running on a close hauled reach and making good way. When or why he changed course to pass in front of us is a mystery that will never be solved. IMHO, to avoid this entire "near mishap" he could/should have waited until we had passed by each other before changing his course to cross ours.

Continuez, il n'y a plus rien à voir ici.

 

[mquiet]

GFC, I think you did well given the course of events. What I really like about this thread is a lot of people had input, but the learning/takeaway is at night once a target is identified, don't lose track of them while continuing to scan for other targets and make a change when needed. You did well sir and thanks for bringing this up.


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[keokie]

Night time is a tricky thing. We can all look at this with hindsight, but I will point out GFC operating at a responsible speed, sober, and with lots of experience allowed this accident not to happen.

 

[mvoellinger]

Glad nothing bad happened. Lets all direct our judgement towards the idiots who sit in the middle of channels at night with no nav lights fishing or doing whatever. I almost ran over a jon boat under a bridge a few months ago without a single light on...I made sure I made enough noise he wasn't catching any more fish there.

 

[Gofirstclass]

keokie, on a side note, we'll be down in AZ in mid-October! Can't wait. Thanks to all for your input. That's one of the things I like about CSR--people speak their opinions without attacking, ridiculing or name calling.

 

[Island Time Buffalo]

I know we all can surely cite far too many examples of idiots in power boats. But there's a special problem when that idiot is in a sailing vessel as these folks do not seem to notice or care that other vessels are in the water.... "I have the right-of-way because I'm a sailboat."

I too have watched more than one sailboat cut off a freighter in broad daylight (one outside Port Colborne, ON and one in the Bay of Quinte near Kingston, ON) - both near misses, and I have had them cut in front of me many times while under power (and I was the clear stand-on vessel). I once had to wait for 20 minutes to exit the marina one early morning (Mentor Harbor, OH) as a sailor insisted on sailing into the channel .... and then turning and sailing back out.

For the most part I think sailors are well-schooled, but when not, they are hazards.

Yes, this sailor may have had the rights in black-and-white, letter-of-the-law.... but like GoFirstClass stated in the original post..... there's such thing as "Dead Right". Being prudent and exercising judgement are more important than being right.

 

[Woody]

You are misusing ‘reciprocal course’, think of it as ‘head on’. While his course would parallel yours he was near a quarter mile to port and certainly not on a ‘reciprocal course’. In a true ’reciprocal course’ situation if need be both boats should turn to starboard to avoid collision.

Initially you interpreted the lights you saw as a sailboat under sail and a stand on vessel. Later you want to wave that assessment because of the white mast light…you feel that’s a sailboat under power and now he becomes the give way vessel, therefore it did wrong.

Well maybe not, you described that boat as about 24’. If he was a foot smaller he could have a white mast light, be under sail, and still the stand on vessel.

You described him as ‘nearly invisible’ yet just minutes before at greater distance you were able to make this observation, ‘When he was on the course parallel to the shore he was running on a close hauled reach and making good way.’

Whether it’s a sailboat under sail or power boat that should have give way but didn’t, you don’t know why. Perhaps they didn’t see you, it happens, just like you didn’t see them until the last important seconds. We can ponder whether or not they had radar or maybe it was off to conserve power…..it doesn’t matter.

What we do know is you recognized the sailboat as a sailboat and you kept track of him for a while. You had windows open, ample sets of eyes, and radar, yet some how you failed to see he changed course and was approaching to intersect yours until coming to a complete stop was the only way to avoid collision…why?

Knowing that he was there, a couple more looks at the radar, a turn to port passing his stern and there’d be no story to tell. There’s a lot more to discuss here than ‘fault’.

 

[northshore]

I get to do fun things like this for the job.......




I'd hate to see an honest probability matrix for the odds.

 

[SCORPIO]

The sail boat cutting across your bow was a bonehead move on his part as far as I'm concerned. You and your wife did well avoiding a collision, kudos to you both for having the boat under control.
I've seen sailboats do unexpected things, I think it's the sailing mindset of 'I'm under sail, therefore I have right of way and they will yield to me.' That mindset has caused more than a few collisions over the years. Glad all are OK.

 

[WazzuCMGrad]

Having had my 205 on those waters, I can vouch for GFC that there's a great many folks operating boats of all types (blow and power) out there that either don't know the navigation rules, ignore them, or are otherwise altered. People forget that rivers (even mighty ones like the Columbia) change quickly and it doesn't take but a split second to change from SN to SNAFU.

To me, it's like snow skiing. You're responsible to avoid people in front of you, and it's always a good idea to keep your head on a swivel at all times (to protect against those that can't follow the first rule).

It seems the take-away here is one of constant awareness. Good, timely decisions avoided a potentially bad outcome regardless of how they may have arose. That said, this is really good information for everyone, no matter where or how they boat. Thanks to everyone for sharing.

 

[Joel_MD]

A few years ago we had a Chesapeake Bay pilot speak to our local Power Squadron. For those who don't know, all vessels engaged in foreign trade entering the Chesapeake have to take on a pilot to captain the ship all the way until it's in port. Anyway, this Bay pilot had a bunch of photos from all the 'close calls' he's seen from the bridge, many taken from the various ships' video cameras. I'd say 80-90% of the close calls were sailboats crossing in front of the ship, completely oblivious to a 50,000-ton Panamax ship on a straight course at 20 kts.

 

[Gofirstclass]

You are misusing ‘reciprocal course’, think of it as ‘head on’. While his course would parallel yours he was near a quarter mile to port and certainly not on a ‘reciprocal course’. In a true ’reciprocal course’ situation if need be both boats should turn to starboard to avoid collision. Woody, one of us is confused about these terms. It's my understanding that a "head on" course requires a change of course by one or both boats to pass safely, as in a head on collision on a highway.. In many things in life, a reciprocal means, as an example, I'm on a course of 180* and another boat is on a course of 0*. We may or may not be close each other. In this situation he was about 1/4 mile from us on our port side. No change of course would be needed by either boat. Here's a definition to reciprocal that I found online: "Navigation. bearing in a direction 180° to a given direction." Note that no mention is made of separation distance, just the fact that the bearing of one is 180* from the other.

Initially you interpreted the lights you saw as a sailboat under sail and a stand on vessel. Later you want to wave that assessment because of the white mast light…you feel that’s a sailboat under power and now he becomes the give way vessel, therefore it did wrong. Perhaps you should go back and reread the posts. I said he had a white mast light. I did not say that given his white mast light he was under power. I just said he was a sailboat. Someone else said the lights he was showing would indicate a sailboat under power. At the time this happened I did not know that a white lite atop a mast meant a sailboat under power. To me it was just a sailboat.

Well maybe not, you described that boat as about 24’. If he was a foot smaller he could have a white mast light, be under sail, and still the stand on vessel.

You described him as ‘nearly invisible’ yet just minutes before at greater distance you were able to make this observation, ‘When he was on the course parallel to the shore he was running on a close hauled reach and making good way.’ I could see his mast light and red nav light and could see that he was moving right along.

Whether it’s a sailboat under sail or power boat that should have give way but didn’t, you don’t know why. Perhaps they didn’t see you, it happens, just like you didn’t see them until the last important seconds. We can ponder whether or not they had radar or maybe it was off to conserve power…..it doesn’t matter.

What we do know is you recognized the sailboat as a sailboat and you kept track of him for a while. You had windows open, ample sets of eyes, and radar, yet some how you failed to see he changed course and was approaching to intersect yours until coming to a complete stop was the only way to avoid collision…why?Why? Because if we had not come to a complete stop my props might have gotten tangled in his rigging. All joking aside, it appears you are trying to make a point here, so I will make it for you. We should have kept closer track of the sailboat until he was well out of a danger area. We did not do that. Our bad. There, your point is made.

Knowing that he was there, a couple more looks at the radar, a turn to port passing his stern and there’d be no story to tell. There’s a lot more to discuss here than ‘fault’.

So what is it that you feel needs to be discussed more that has not already been discussed at length in the posts above? Please enlighten us all so we can continue with this thread.

 

[Woody]

Woody, one of us is confused about these terms. It's my understanding that a "head on" course requires a change of course by one or both boats to pass safely, as in a head on collision on a highway.. In many things in life, a reciprocal means, as an example, I'm on a course of 180* and another boat is on a course of 0*. We may or may not be close each other. In this situation he was about 1/4 mile from us on our port side. No change of course would be needed by either boat. Here's a definition to reciprocal that I found online: "Navigation. bearing in a direction 180° to a given direction." Note that no mention is made of separation distance, just the fact that the bearing of one is 180* from the other.

Maybe this will help, it’s from the USCG….

https://www.uscg.mil/hq/cgcvc/cvc3/references/Rules_of_Road_Quick_Reference.pdf

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesContent#rule14

 

[Woody]

So what is it that you feel needs to be discussed more that has not already been discussed at length in the posts above? Please enlighten us all so we can continue with this thread.

You're taking my comment, 'there's a lot more to discuss here than fault', the wrong way, on purpose I think.

You posted the story, clearly a put down the dumb ass blow boater story, sprinkled with the following comments assigning 'fault'.

The "skipper" (using that term loosely) must have seen us. Our nav lights were working, plus the interior cabin lights were on. I was amazed that someone would put himself and his boat (and possibly passengers) in jeopardy by pulling a bonehead move like he did.

That the sailboat took a course to cross our bow was what I figured was a bonehead move.

Had we not had a boat full of women I most certainly would have unloaded verbally on him. Discretion is the better part of valor so I chose not to turn the ears of the ladies on board to a bright red color. Had it been a boat load of guys on board I probably would have done that and they probably would have joined me in verbally abusing the sailboater.

My posts were meant constructively and written I hoped in a way that generated thought without pointing fingers. As a different CSR member said in much fewer words than I, 'GFC, look within'.

I do think given the COLREGS have a specific purpose that it would be good if you did memorize some of them. Stand On and Give Way are some pretty basic concepts, you shouldn't have to look in the book to see what might apply.....again, plenty of things here to discuss besides 'fault'.

 

[kvduff]

Just my .02' but isn't their a standing rule that any vessel under sail has the right of way? Regardless on stand on and give way designations.


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[Woody]

Just my .02' but isn't their a standing rule that any vessel under sail has the right of way? Regardless on stand on and give way designations.


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Rule 18 - Responsibilities Between Vessels

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:

(a) A power driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver ;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing;
(iv) a sailing vessel.

 

[Sangster]

So what is it that you feel needs to be discussed more that has not already been discussed at length in the posts above? Please enlighten us all so we can continue with this thread.

I'll say it.....he's saying you need to humble yourself and admit that this was YOUR screw up....not the other captain.

 

[keokie]

Interesting debate. If there had been a collision, given the law, I think the impetus would likely be on GFC to prove the sail boater acted in a negligent and dangerous way. That could be possible. Courts are unlikely to look favorably on a sailboat captain who swings the rudder with no care as to the consequences, regardless of right of way rules.

Reminds me of the pedestrian that gets hit entering a crosswalk without looking. Occasionally, those that do so are held responsible when they are hit by cars that were not given enough time/distance to respond.

I wasn't there, when GFC's incident happened, but I can certainly see how either or both could be considered at fault. Fault of a collision doesn't simply end with "the sail boat has the right of way". If you think it does, ask a lawyer or judge.